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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 13:50:12 GMT -6
Dach will never be a first line scoring centre like Trevor Zegras or Jack Hughes. But to my mind, it does not matter. That's not why Dach is here. If Dach develops properly, he will provide the team with something much more valuable - a true power centre who controls the game at both ends in all situations. He is learning under one of the best ever in Jonathan Toews. Hopefully he pays attention. I think it’s best at this point to look at him as a 3rd line center. He is atrocious at faceoffs. And doesn’t do much offensively. Yes that can change. But for now, he regressed this past season. Not very encouraging. So I highly doubt he’s gonna control both ends of the ice. Don’t think it’s too much to expect 20 goals and 25 assists outta the guy at this point. This past year was the highest scoring year in 25 years. Yet he struggled. I don’t think the Hawks or any team wait till he’s 25. I think he’ll be traded as a reclamation project. Remember, you thought a year ago that we had all we needed with Zadorov. And he was a bust here. Same with Jones. Dach just hasn’t produced. He still has time. But not that much left here!!! Zadorov should have been re-signed. Sutter knows how to use this type of player and values him. It is a shame but not a surprise that Bowman gave up on him for a third round pick. Seth Jones is not a "bust." He is a number one defenceman playing primarily with AHL fill and trying to do too much. Like Debrincat, perhaps Jones also might be of more value in a trade if not this year than sometime in the next few. We shall see. The contract will make it a challenge to find a taker. Dach needs time. At least three more years before we even think about moving him. The cap hit will be more than manageable. There are only about five to ten truly elite two-way centres in the game. |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 26, 2022 14:37:09 GMT -6
I think it’s best at this point to look at him as a 3rd line center. He is atrocious at faceoffs. And doesn’t do much offensively. Yes that can change. But for now, he regressed this past season. Not very encouraging. So I highly doubt he’s gonna control both ends of the ice. Don’t think it’s too much to expect 20 goals and 25 assists outta the guy at this point. This past year was the highest scoring year in 25 years. Yet he struggled. I don’t think the Hawks or any team wait till he’s 25. I think he’ll be traded as a reclamation project. Remember, you thought a year ago that we had all we needed with Zadorov. And he was a bust here. Same with Jones. Dach just hasn’t produced. He still has time. But not that much left here!!! Zadorov should have been re-signed. Sutter knows how to use this type of player and values him. It is a shame but not a surprise that Bowman gave up on him for a third round pick. Seth Jones is not a "bust." He is a number one defenceman playing primarily with AHL fill and trying to do too much. Like Debrincat, perhaps Jones also might be of more value in a trade if not this year than sometime in the next few. We shall see. The contract will make it a challenge to find a taker. Dach needs time. At least three more years before we even think about moving him. The cap hit will be more than manageable. There are only about five to ten truly elite two-way centres in the game. Kind of what I asked on another thread, are our defense men as bad as they looked or was it the system played that made it look bad? |
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Kirby Dach
May 26, 2022 14:40:41 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 14:40:41 GMT -6
Here’s the problem. Hughes just signed 8 million per. What if Dach wants half that? Or even 5 million on an 8 year ticket? That’s a lot for someone who hasn’t shown much. We’ll see soon enough as he’s due for another deal!!!
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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 15:30:30 GMT -6
If Dach's agent over-values the player's worth, you move him. No player should be paid based on potential. He has to earn the contract.
Right now, he is a second/third line centre with holes in his game. I think a three-year deal at just under $4M/year is more than fair. I doubt any team would sweep in and try to sign him as a RFA. Carolina's move last year against the Canadiens was about retribution, not common sense. You cross that bridge if a competitor makes an offer.
At a $4M cap hit, Dach remains a flexible asset easy to move in a trade. Go much higher and it would become a problem.
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 15:30:48 GMT -6
I do not think Hughes earned the $8M annual contract right off the bat but did show enough that he can be that type of player. New Jersey willing to pay for potential here and hope that he becomes a superstar and then the deal is below market. The problem with Dach we are stilling waiting see what his potential might look like, all we know is what was written and projected particularly on the offensive side of his game.
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 16:50:14 GMT -6
Since when do team's wait for their 6'4" 200lb #3 over-all to reach the age of 25 to produce? Twenty years ago maybe. He still could prove me wrong but a number of players taken after him have been much better so far. Let's be fair and consider his 152 games played as two full seasons with a few games missed........19 goals? 34.6FO%? Eighteen or not.....he had the size of a mature player. Injuries did impact his development.....I was told a healthy year and a full camp would make a difference this year........9gls 32.8FO% in 70 games.......not a difference at all. What do we have the right to fairly expect until he reaches 25? You so easily dismiss the elite play a small-framed, 2nd round pick has exhibited from the get go as a teenager and find a way to coddle a large framed #3 over-all's disappointing play.....why? I do not "dismiss" Debrincat's "elite" play. I recognize that most small-framed scoring wingers peak at around his age (23-25 years old) and start to decline at around age 30. Bowman's staff did very well to find him in the second round. Debrincat has exceeded just about everyone's expectations. Nevertheless, he likely is what he is at this stage - an elite shooter and second-tier all star who is about to cash in. Debrincat produces just under a point a game, playing first line minutes in all scoring situations with Hall of Famer Patrick Kane . He generates more than 40% of his points either on the powerplay (three-and-a-half minutes a game on average) or during three-on-three overtime (four goals) when there are fewer defenders to deal with. The Strome line's plus/minus during five-on-five play was dreadful this year. These are not the kinds of numbers that tend to translate well to tight-checking physical playoff hockey. I do not want the Hawks to commit a long term big money NMC to a winger during the early stages of a rebuild. He provides more value as a trade chip. Dach's present play (and production numbers) pretty much fits the pattern of what we should expect for this type of player. Like Quinton Byfield (drafted 2nd) and most other big centres, he will take years to fulfill his potential. His likely peak is 26-30 years old. I am not disappointed in his present production at all. The centre's role, like the defenceman's, is much more difficult than the scoring winger's. There are way more checking responsibilities at both ends of the ice. Dach is doing a good job already in handling most of the opposing team's stars. Dach is not paid much now and won't be for many years. The Hawks do not have to make a decision on him for awhile. We can choose to "coddle" him. Unfortunately, Debrincat is one year from payday. He will never be worth more in a trade than right now. You have an entire paragraph dismissing his play in this post alone and your assessment of his play is so off base,you obvious have a personal bias against him and it's on display. Who other than D-Cat,Breadman and Sharp & JT a long time ago ever scored with Kane? Kubalik had his 'lightning in a bottle' season with JT settin' him up point blank a half dozen times a game. Suckura went goal-less. Dach fared a little better but playing with Kane did nothing for HIS numbers. Go ahead and coddle this big kid who'll only play center and looks soft already as far as the rough stuff goes.......that works well in hockey. Strome's twice the player and Strome's been treated like shit by Potter while this underachiever's seen top six minutes and PP.............F'n NOlander produced more offense for God's sake. Strome sat for weeks at a time while Dach's never been a healthy scratch if I recall.....regardless of how much he deserved it. Lack of accountability will destroy young players. |
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 17:11:47 GMT -6
I do not think Hughes earned the $8M annual contract right off the bat but did show enough that he can be that type of player. New Jersey willing to pay for potential here and hope that he becomes a superstar and then the deal is below market. The problem with Dach we are stilling waiting see what his potential might look like, all we know is what was written and projected particularly on the offensive side of his game. The kid was on pace for 40+ and 90+ before he got hurt but that's still a bit too much........he can't win draws either. |
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Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 17:20:27 GMT -6
I think fair for Dach is a 2 year 1.5 million per. That’s the best I’d go. He’s not even close to a 4 million per guy!!!
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 17:32:38 GMT -6
I do not think Hughes earned the $8M annual contract right off the bat but did show enough that he can be that type of player. New Jersey willing to pay for potential here and hope that he becomes a superstar and then the deal is below market. The problem with Dach we are stilling waiting see what his potential might look like, all we know is what was written and projected particularly on the offensive side of his game. The kid was on pace for 40+ and 90+ before he got hurt but that's still a bit too much........he can't win draws either. I believe he will probably earn this contract and possibly overperform, I just think New Jersey decided to lock him up with max years based on future production. You can see the high-end skill. Probably better to pay for future production rather than reward players for past performance. |
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 17:33:53 GMT -6
I think fair for Dach is a 2 year 1.5 million per. That’s the best I’d go. He’s not even close to a 4 million per guy!!! I think T he will probably get a little more than that, but should not be much more. |
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 17:38:55 GMT -6
The kid was on pace for 40+ and 90+ before he got hurt but that's still a bit too much........he can't win draws either. I believe he will probably earn this contract and possibly overperform, I just think New Jersey decided to lock him up with max years based on future production. You can see the high-end skill. Probably better to pay for future production rather than reward players for past performance. I still think eight's a lot because he's at 34% himself and 34% will never be a NHL center.......even 3&4LC's gotta win half their draws to stay in the league. |
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Kirby Dach
May 26, 2022 17:45:00 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 17:45:00 GMT -6
The kid was on pace for 40+ and 90+ before he got hurt but that's still a bit too much........he can't win draws either. I believe he will probably earn this contract and possibly overperform, I just think New Jersey decided to lock him up with max years based on future production. You can see the high-end skill. Probably better to pay for future production rather than reward players for past performance. Good post. NJ was/is in a position to pay someone like Hughes. Let’s say he doesn’t pan out and isn’t worth 8 million. He’ll still be worth 4-5 million and be a wee bit over paid. But probably moveable. Hawks we’re not in a position to pay 3 guys 10 million or more. Ok, Jones is 9.5. But the Hawks were not in a position for that. Yet someone did it. There is a good chance that Hughes out performs that contract!!! |
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 17:46:11 GMT -6
I believe he will probably earn this contract and possibly overperform, I just think New Jersey decided to lock him up with max years based on future production. You can see the high-end skill. Probably better to pay for future production rather than reward players for past performance. I still think eight's a lot because he's at 34% himself and 34% will never be a NHL center.......even 3&4LC's gotta win half their draws to stay in the league. You would think the agent would go for maybe 5 years at $8M hoping to cash in real big while he is in his prime. Agree on the draws, I guess it is like basketball they just teach kids now to shoot 3 pointers and dunk and forget about the other parts/fundamentals of the game. Same with baseball with the launch angles and exit velocity. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 5:25:48 GMT -6
I think fair for Dach is a 2 year 1.5 million per. That’s the best I’d go. He’s not even close to a 4 million per guy!!! Then he undoubtedly signs elsewhere as an RFA and you get the compensation - To match this offer above, a competitor loses a third round pick. If Hawk management does not approach the $4 M mark, they likely lose him for a second round pick. Any team in the league would sign Dach for a second round pick. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 5:33:14 GMT -6
I do not "dismiss" Debrincat's "elite" play. I recognize that most small-framed scoring wingers peak at around his age (23-25 years old) and start to decline at around age 30. Bowman's staff did very well to find him in the second round. Debrincat has exceeded just about everyone's expectations. Nevertheless, he likely is what he is at this stage - an elite shooter and second-tier all star who is about to cash in. Debrincat produces just under a point a game, playing first line minutes in all scoring situations with Hall of Famer Patrick Kane . He generates more than 40% of his points either on the powerplay (three-and-a-half minutes a game on average) or during three-on-three overtime (four goals) when there are fewer defenders to deal with. The Strome line's plus/minus during five-on-five play was dreadful this year. These are not the kinds of numbers that tend to translate well to tight-checking physical playoff hockey. I do not want the Hawks to commit a long term big money NMC to a winger during the early stages of a rebuild. He provides more value as a trade chip. Dach's present play (and production numbers) pretty much fits the pattern of what we should expect for this type of player. Like Quinton Byfield (drafted 2nd) and most other big centres, he will take years to fulfill his potential. His likely peak is 26-30 years old. I am not disappointed in his present production at all. The centre's role, like the defenceman's, is much more difficult than the scoring winger's. There are way more checking responsibilities at both ends of the ice. Dach is doing a good job already in handling most of the opposing team's stars. Dach is not paid much now and won't be for many years. The Hawks do not have to make a decision on him for awhile. We can choose to "coddle" him. Unfortunately, Debrincat is one year from payday. He will never be worth more in a trade than right now. You have an entire paragraph dismissing his play in this post alone and your assessment of his play is so off base,you obvious have a personal bias against him and it's on display. Who other than D-Cat,Breadman and Sharp & JT a long time ago ever scored with Kane? Kubalik had his 'lightning in a bottle' season with JT settin' him up point blank a half dozen times a game. Suckura went goal-less. Dach fared a little better but playing with Kane did nothing for HIS numbers. Go ahead and coddle this big kid who'll only play center and looks soft already as far as the rough stuff goes.......that works well in hockey. Strome's twice the player and Strome's been treated like shit by Potter while this underachiever's seen top six minutes and PP.............F'n NOlander produced more offense for God's sake. Strome sat for weeks at a time while Dach's never been a healthy scratch if I recall.....regardless of how much he deserved it. Lack of accountability will destroy young players. There is a difference between "dismissing" a player's "play" and providing sobering context of what these scoring numbers actually represent. The player is due a contract and will get a long term deal with a NMC. My "bias" is clear, but it is not "personal." I don't know the player. I don't believe in building a team around a small scoring winger. I prefer concentrating limited cap space on big centres, defenceman, power wingers, and a goalie. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 5:44:28 GMT -6
One of the best movies from the late 1980s was Broadcast News. William Hurt played the frontline news reader, the "star" of the news station. His associates, played by Holly Hunter and Albert Brooks, worked in the trenches.
If you have not seen it, it is well worth watching and very true to life.
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Post by BigT on May 27, 2022 6:31:28 GMT -6
I think fair for Dach is a 2 year 1.5 million per. That’s the best I’d go. He’s not even close to a 4 million per guy!!! Then he undoubtedly signs elsewhere as an RFA and you get the compensation - To match this offer above, a competitor loses a third round pick. If Hawk management does not approach the $4 M mark, they likely lose him for a second round pick. Any team in the league would sign Dach for a second round pick. That’s a decision management has to make. If they were smart, they’d make a statement that they’ll match any offer. And teams never want to be the driving force behind higher salaries with RFAs. If the Hawks are forced to pay more. Do it on the shortest term possible and tell him to show you he deserves a longer term deal. If he doesn’t after the one or two year deal. You trade him!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 27, 2022 8:13:40 GMT -6
You have an entire paragraph dismissing his play in this post alone and your assessment of his play is so off base,you obvious have a personal bias against him and it's on display. Who other than D-Cat,Breadman and Sharp & JT a long time ago ever scored with Kane? Kubalik had his 'lightning in a bottle' season with JT settin' him up point blank a half dozen times a game. Suckura went goal-less. Dach fared a little better but playing with Kane did nothing for HIS numbers. Go ahead and coddle this big kid who'll only play center and looks soft already as far as the rough stuff goes.......that works well in hockey. Strome's twice the player and Strome's been treated like shit by Potter while this underachiever's seen top six minutes and PP.............F'n NOlander produced more offense for God's sake. Strome sat for weeks at a time while Dach's never been a healthy scratch if I recall.....regardless of how much he deserved it. Lack of accountability will destroy young players. There is a difference between "dismissing" a player's "play" and providing sobering context of what these scoring numbers actually represent. The player is due a contract and will get a long term deal with a NMC. My "bias" is clear, but it is not "personal." I don't know the player. I don't believe in building a team around a small scoring winger. I prefer concentrating limited cap space on big centres, defenceman, power wingers, and a goalie. You can break it down by position and you can point to size but you had a bone for D-Cat back when you started the thread about him......let's lay those cards on the table my friend. You continue to use size(you have nothing else) against a player who's NEVER missed a game to injury and plays big in the corners and along the boards and backs down from no one. The bigger Dach can't stay healthy,he was shut down again this year and which player plays with more snarl and push-back..........just pointing out that it'll always be the size of the fight in the dog buddy boy. DeBrincat's size has been no disadvantage what soever and Dach's has been little advantage to be honest.........it has helped defensively. You want sobering......and remember,you're the one comparing the two young players...... Games played GpG ApG +/- S% FO% Dach 152 .125 .263 -22 7.8% 34.6% Cat 368 .434 .399 -14 15.5% 40.4% Production is production! There's been no bigger proponent of the #1 center position than me in my unyielding support of Jonathan Toews and his importance to the team compared to our other two great forwards of the era Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane. My admiration and respect for Big Hoss and JT are immense and that goes for a few other multiple cup winners as well but our 'small scoring winger' was as important as any of em. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 11:02:28 GMT -6
All statistics should be understood in context. Comparing "production" from one player to another has to be understood in terms of roles, ice time, linemates, opposing checking assignments and much more.
Numbers generated in three-on-three play or on the powerplay do not represent how a player's game would translate to playoff hockey. A player on the first unit powerplay should produce substantially more offence than one who does not benefit from that opportunity.
In five-on-five hockey, the Strome/Debrincat/Kane line was an anchor for this team last year. They allowed far more goals than they scored.
Yet most often, Toews or Dach played against the other team's best players. When the coach moved Kane away from Debrincat and Strome, Kane continued to produce with his new linemates. Debrincat and Strome produced nothing until Kane rejoined them.
For what it is worth: I never compared Dach to Debrincat. I suggested the team keep Dach and trade Debrincat because of their contracts and positions.
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 11:22:53 GMT -6
If you are going to analyze "production," the more informative way to do so is to compare two players who do the exact same job.
Each team has at most one first line pure goal-scorer. Debrincat is certainly above-average for this role, but he is not Marner or Ovechkin or Panarin.
Kirby Dach right now is a third-line two way centre who gets occasional second unit powerplay minutes (and typically plays with other checkers with primarily defensive responsibilities). His numbers based on that role are well-above average.
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Post by Nikos on May 27, 2022 11:29:48 GMT -6
All statistics should be understood in context. Comparing "production" from one player to another has to understood in terms of roles, ice time, linemates, opposing checking assignments and much more. Numbers generated in three-on-three play or on the powerplay do not represent how a player's game would translate to playoff hockey. A player on the first unit powerplay should produce substantially more offence than one who does not benefit from that opportunity. In five-on-five hockey, the Strome/Debrincat/Kane line was an anchor for this team last year. They allowed far more goals than they scored. Yet most often, Toews or Dach played against the other team's best players. When the coach moved Kane away from Debrincat and Strome, Kane continued to produce with his new linemates. Debrincat and Strome produced nothing until Kane rejoined them. Hey I would want MVR as my rep in an arbitration hearing, I think he would get Dach a nice raise. The good news Debrincat will continue to score goals for the Hawks or another team and last time I checked goals are used to determine winner of a game. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 11:31:42 GMT -6
Nico: the Hawks did not make the playoffs last year. They finished near the very bottom of the standings. Goals for matter. But so do goals against.
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Post by Nikos on May 27, 2022 12:22:02 GMT -6
Nico: the Hawks did not make the playoffs last year. They finished near the very bottom of the standings. Goals for matter. But so do goals against. Understood on goals against, but my point is Debrincat is paid to score goals and he is elite in doing so. They still count the same whether power play, 3 on 3, etc. You seem to discount his production because it is easier for him to score due to his role/job, teammates, etc..... I think that is what you are saying? I could be wrong. The kid has overcome a lot, excelled and now is one of the leaders on the team. I know you are not comparing players and you make some valid points on whether to offer him a big contract, but give the kid his due and stop discounting his accomplishments/production. I know you are going to come back and say something like I have said many times he is a fine player, one of the best pure shooters I have ever seen and then on the other hand you now say his production is mainly due based on the role/job he plays. So what is it a fine player and one of the best pure shooters you have ever seen or he is only a fine player and one of the best pure shooters you have seen because he has a much easier role/job on the team which allows him to be more productive? I think that is the rub with some here, in addition to his size (which I do not believe is an issue and he proven that over and over many times) you also want to say his production is overrated. Anyway, I appreciate the spirited conversations. |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 27, 2022 14:23:43 GMT -6
If you are going to analyze "production," the more informative way to do so is to compare two players who do the exact same job. Each team has at most one first line pure goal-scorer. Debrincat is certainly above-average for this role, but he is not Marner or Ovechkin or Panarin. Kirby Dach right now is a third-line two way centre who gets occasional second unit powerplay minutes (and typically plays with other checkers with primarily defensive responsibilities). His numbers based on that role are well-above average.Using your assessment of Kirby then he is nothing more than a 3rd round draft pick and not a #3 overall. Also D-cat was a 2nd round draft and should be compared then to other 2nd rd. picks, not an Ovi, Marner or Panarin. |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 14:30:09 GMT -6
I would not use the words "mainly due." I would say we should be assessing his numbers based on his role on the team and judging his value in relation to others who play similar roles.
He is one of the best pure shooters I have ever seen. As a powerplay specialist, he is among the elite. There are few better players. Is he on par with Ovechkin or Panarin? I don't think so.
We continue to discuss whether the player should be signed to a long term deal with a NMC. I say no, and to justify this position, I need to explain why (which is what you call "discounting his accomplishments/production."
Debrincat has "overcome" a lot. He has "excelled and now is one of the leaders on the team." This is not under dispute. But it is also irrelevant when discussing whether or not the Hawks should trade or sign him.
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 14:39:50 GMT -6
If you are going to analyze "production," the more informative way to do so is to compare two players who do the exact same job. Each team has at most one first line pure goal-scorer. Debrincat is certainly above-average for this role, but he is not Marner or Ovechkin or Panarin. Kirby Dach right now is a third-line two way centre who gets occasional second unit powerplay minutes (and typically plays with other checkers with primarily defensive responsibilities). His numbers based on that role are well-above average.Using your assessment of Kirby then he is nothing more than a 3rd round draft pick and not a #3 overall. Also D-cat was a 2nd round draft and should be compared then to other 2nd rd. picks, not an Ovi, Marner or Panarin. People here are disappointed in Dach's production because of his draft position. They like Debrincat at least partially because of his. To my mind, draft position at this point becomes irrelevant. Dach is here. We can argue back and forth about who should have been picked instead, but that debate serves little purpose. The decision was made. Dach is here. I am comfortable with it and believe the kid will develop into a two-way power centre given time. I hope he does because that's the type of player needed to win championships. Drafting Dach is one of Bowman's few moves I believe made any sense. The real question is what to do moving forward. I think we give Dach time to realize his potential. I don't think Dach's next contract will be a problem. I do think Debrincat's will. |
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Post by Nikos on May 27, 2022 15:12:09 GMT -6
I would not use the words "mainly due." I would say we should be assessing his numbers based on his role on the team and judging his value in relation to others who play similar roles. He is one of the best pure shooters I have ever seen. As a powerplay specialist, he is among the elite. There are few better players. Is he on par with Ovechkin or Panarin? I don't think so. We continue to discuss whether the player should be signed to a long term deal with a NMC. I say no, and to justify this position, I need to explain why (which is what you call "discounting his accomplishments/production." Debrincat has "overcome" a lot. He has "excelled and now is one of the leaders on the team." This is not under dispute. But it is also irrelevant when discussing whether or not the Hawks should trade or sign him. I have no issue whether he should be traded or signed, I stated you have made valid arguments and those can be debated. I know you prefer to build with big centers, power forward, Dmen and a goalie, and due to his next contract (term, dollars & NMC) and where the Hawks are makes a lot sense to get assets. So far all good here. You now also say Debrincat is not the same level as Ovi and Panarin. Ovi I will concede to you, Panarin not a complete slam dunk. Btw, when is Marner and his $10M contract going to lead his team to a playoff series win? In addition to his size (small winger always last when building a team) you stated earlier "providing sobering context of what these scoring numbers actually represent" So tell me I am sober almost all the time what do you mean here? Sure sounds like you are dismissing the kid's numbers=production |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 15:38:48 GMT -6
Not dismissing - putting them in context.
About half of the player's points come either on three on three overtime or on the powerplay.
Marner is an elite scorer who has been a consistent disappointment in the playoffs for many years now. There any many in Toronto who believe signing this small winger to a big contract was a mistake. I agree with them.
Nazem Kadri, one of the key players Toronto had to trade to keep Marner, has demonstrated in Colorado that he can rise to the occasion in the big games.
Just today, the Globe and Mail's Cathal Kelly writes about why centres like Kadri are so important to team playoff success.
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Post by hsbob on May 27, 2022 16:45:02 GMT -6
Scoring on the PP and GWG's in OT is the elite forward's job and YES SIR,he's elite at it.......if he wasn't,it'd be used against him like a bludgeon.
The career numbers after the second half a season with Kane(who was struggling mightily prior)could have really been something if the three were allowed to play together for an entire year. Do all goal scorers need a set up man......figure that out for yourselves.
The kid will pot 40 anywhere he goes with any help at all and he'll pot 500 with continued durability while playing decent defensively and displaying a top notch attitude. Alex DeBrincat needs no one to carry him,he got better after McDavid left Erie! That's a ruse!
Context also shows DeBrincat joining a much weaker and more talentless team than Kane or JT did as a teenager and even these great players can't match the kid's first five years production.
The Big Center has produced 19 goals and a FO% under 35% through let's call two full seasons........Kampf is better since we're not taking draft position or age into account.
Waiting until ANY player is 25 these days screams project at best and the idea of a 3LC coming from a #3 over-all is nauseating when I consider Zegras,Sieder and even Cozens at this point.
D-Cat has won nothing at this point and neither have the young,superstar centers on LOADED teams.
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 17:17:48 GMT -6
The Dach draft had two high end picks and then a lot of guesses.
Draft gurus were all over the place. Some had Podkolzin as the number three. Byram's stock surged late (though there remained concerns about his defence and health). There was talk of Cozens (who was said to lack hockey sense). Turcotte waa considered a potential defensive shutdown centre, though he was small and fragile and not high skilled. Seider and Broberg were wildcards and big reaches. Boldy, Newhook, Zegras, Caufield and Krebs all originally in the mix fell way back.
I ended on Dach based on his size and potential to fill a real need. Big centres are so hard to find.
We all knew that Dach's game was unremarkable. He was never going to be a star. But he was a safe pick in a weak draft with few high end players. I still believe he could become a Jordan Staal, Bobby Holik, Joel Otto or Ryan Kesler, and all teams can use this kind of player.
At the time, I argued that Bowman should trade down out of the top five. I usually support trading down and adding additional picks. To my mind, it was likely either Dach or Cozens would be there at eight or later. If neither was there, another player would be who might end up being better.
My belief is that success in amateur scouting is largely luck. Having more high picks improves the odds of getting a player who works out.
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