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Post by hsbob on Jun 23, 2022 7:48:01 GMT -6
Dach will sign a similar deal to what Strome signed. 2 yrs at 3M per. Strome was drafted in 2015. After the draft Strome split his time between the OHL 91 games AHL 50 games and NHL 28 games before his first full NHL season in 2018/19. The first 2 years of Strome's ELC did not justify a contract of 3M and at the time of the trade at his PPG average in Arizona he was on pace for a 19 point season. One good season playing with two superstars shouldn't makeup for his underperforming earlier in his contract. Dach is considered a bust here and before Strome came here he was considered a bust there. I am hoping that these two busts one day hang outside with the other ones. Strome saw 20+ games as a 20yro center and 20+ as a 21yro center,some teams just take more time and develop players,Dach saw more games earlier in his career with little to show for it. Dylan Strome has two seasons already that Dach can't even dream of and Strome has NEVER been a sub 40%FO player even as a rookie. Dach was given his chance with Kane and Cat......REAL superstars........even they couldn't pick his paltry offensive game up and you gotta win draws to play with those guys. A 20 game development stint isn't a bust.................70 healthy games......9 goals.......17asts.......32FO%.........that sounds like a bust.......sorry. 22 goals in 69 games does not! Even with the injuries(like Dach) and the mistreatment(unlike Dach...he got kid gloves) Strome is still a 20/50 48% average center......he'd be MUCH better at this point of his career if he had a real HC! If Strome can work his way to a 52FO% on the same team,with the same coaches.......why can't Dach? Can he even be paid as a center winning 32% of his draws? If you're drawing parallels between the two players.......Dach is due for a big breakthrough or there's NO comparison at all. WAIT.......was Brandon Perlini a superstar? Or just another player Strome made better? How many gls/pts did Kane have when he joined that line last year? |
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Post by nighbor on Jun 23, 2022 16:12:08 GMT -6
Dach will sign a similar deal to what Strome signed. 2 yrs at 3M per. Strome was drafted in 2015. After the draft Strome split his time between the OHL 91 games AHL 50 games and NHL 28 games before his first full NHL season in 2018/19. The first 2 years of Strome's ELC did not justify a contract of 3M and at the time of the trade at his PPG average in Arizona he was on pace for a 19 point season. One good season playing with two superstars shouldn't makeup for his underperforming earlier in his contract. Dach is considered a bust here and before Strome came here he was considered a bust there. I am hoping that these two busts one day hang outside with the other ones. Strome saw 20+ games as a 20yro center and 20+ as a 21yro center,some teams just take more time and develop players,Dach saw more games earlier in his career with little to show for it. Dylan Strome has two seasons already that Dach can't even dream of and Strome has NEVER been a sub 40%FO player even as a rookie. Dach was given his chance with Kane and Cat......REAL superstars........even they couldn't pick his paltry offensive game up and you gotta win draws to play with those guys. A 20 game development stint isn't a bust.................70 healthy games......9 goals.......17asts.......32FO%.........that sounds like a bust.......sorry. 22 goals in 69 games does not! Even with the injuries(like Dach) and the mistreatment(unlike Dach...he got kid gloves) Strome is still a 20/50 48% average center......he'd be MUCH better at this point of his career if he had a real HC! If Strome can work his way to a 52FO% on the same team,with the same coaches.......why can't Dach? Can he even be paid as a center winning 32% of his draws? If you're drawing parallels between the two players.......Dach is due for a big breakthrough or there's NO comparison at all. WAIT.......was Brandon Perlini a superstar? Or just another player Strome made better? How many gls/pts did Kane have when he joined that line last year? The Atlethic Dec 19, 2018. Wraparound: Dylan Strome busting out of the bust label in the early going with Blackhawks. Playing with 12 and 88 favored Strome. Dach had not played with neither while Strome played with 12 for 3 or 4 years in Erie forming chemistry. Dach has to improve his production and that will happen when he has consistant linemates. When teams trade for two or more players they like to keep them together rather than throw them into the deep end of the pool therefore Strome started with Perlini . If Perlini is your idea of Strome making someone better he has more work to do. So now Strome turned Kane into a goal scorer. It has been my experience that scorers run hot and coid and Kane had been been running cold. |
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Post by hawkfaninpdx on Jun 23, 2022 17:24:36 GMT -6
I am not quite ready to give up on Dach completely. As I mentioned in another thread, Wild's Joel Erickson Ek took a while to develop, and didn't really come in into his own until he was 23. It's possible that Dach will follow a similar trajectory. However, there's no doubt that Strome is a better player now and in all likelihood will continue to improve. I would certainly hold on to him. I would say that Strome is easily worth 4.5mil.
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Post by 2old4this on Jun 23, 2022 18:04:53 GMT -6
I am not quite ready to give up on Dach completely. As I mentioned in another thread, Wild's Joel Erickson Ek took a while to develop, and didn't really come in into his own until he was 23. It's possible that Dach will follow a similar trajectory. However, there's no doubt that Strome is a better player now and in all likelihood will continue to improve. I would certainly hold on to him. I would say that Strome is easily worth 4.5mil. At the least, Strome should be given a 1 or 2 yr "prove it" contract. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jun 24, 2022 8:10:38 GMT -6
I am not quite ready to give up on Dach completely. As I mentioned in another thread, Wild's Joel Erickson Ek took a while to develop, and didn't really come in into his own until he was 23. It's possible that Dach will follow a similar trajectory. However, there's no doubt that Strome is a better player now and in all likelihood will continue to improve. I would certainly hold on to him. I would say that Strome is easily worth 4.5mil. I'm not saying that Dach won't improve and that we should give up on him, but we should absolutely be paying him market value on a show-me deal--especially since he's an RFA and is ineligible for arbitration. In my opinion his output makes his market value ~$1.5M-2M. 3OA be damned, sub 10G/30P/sub40% at the dot does not garner $3M. If another club thinks so they can offer sheet him, and the 'hawks can choose to accept or pass. Even if Strome's show-me deal was more, it was also signed by the previous administration which had a history of overpaying players. You give Dach that Salary over 2 years, and if he does right the ship, the 'hawks will have PLENTY of money to pay him moving forward with only Jones on a huge contract. As for Strome, he did improve and does deserve to be compensated for it, but being a O-1st center he's not a key piece the 'hawks need right now--like a 3-zone #1 D-man. I don't think he kills the organization at $4.5M, but if he can bring in an asset the 'hawks need for the rebuild I think you have to do it. I don't think the 'hawks fail to qualify him--I think they qualify him so they can try to trade his rights--especially at the draft. If he takes the 'hawks to arbitration the 'hawks in all likelihood will ask for 1 year only--if he's not already limited to 1 year by other arbitration rules. If he's awarded up to or the max of $4.538M, the 'hawks will have him next season and no harm/no foul. Above that? Who knows what dollar amount they'll walk away from. I think the 'hawks will try to get something from him if at all possible because I do think other clubs could use a O-first center who worked on his game a ton in the previous offseason. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 24, 2022 9:18:32 GMT -6
Strome saw 20+ games as a 20yro center and 20+ as a 21yro center,some teams just take more time and develop players,Dach saw more games earlier in his career with little to show for it. Dylan Strome has two seasons already that Dach can't even dream of and Strome has NEVER been a sub 40%FO player even as a rookie. Dach was given his chance with Kane and Cat......REAL superstars........even they couldn't pick his paltry offensive game up and you gotta win draws to play with those guys. A 20 game development stint isn't a bust.................70 healthy games......9 goals.......17asts.......32FO%.........that sounds like a bust.......sorry. 22 goals in 69 games does not! Even with the injuries(like Dach) and the mistreatment(unlike Dach...he got kid gloves) Strome is still a 20/50 48% average center......he'd be MUCH better at this point of his career if he had a real HC! If Strome can work his way to a 52FO% on the same team,with the same coaches.......why can't Dach? Can he even be paid as a center winning 32% of his draws? If you're drawing parallels between the two players.......Dach is due for a big breakthrough or there's NO comparison at all. WAIT.......was Brandon Perlini a superstar? Or just another player Strome made better? How many gls/pts did Kane have when he joined that line last year? The Atlethic Dec 19, 2018. Wraparound: Dylan Strome busting out of the bust label in the early going with Blackhawks. Playing with 12 and 88 favored Strome. Dach had not played with neither while Strome played with 12 for 3 or 4 years in Erie forming chemistry. Dach has to improve his production and that will happen when he has consistant linemates. When teams trade for two or more players they like to keep them together rather than throw them into the deep end of the pool therefore Strome started with Perlini . If Perlini is your idea of Strome making someone better he has more work to do. So now Strome turned Kane into a goal scorer. It has been my experience that scorers run hot and coid and Kane had been been running cold. You can consider a young center getting 21gms @20 and 20 more @21 a bust but some teams take more time with young centers. Strome's first 48 (bust) games saw 7gls and 18pts and that's still a better pace than Dach has seen,Strome also improved at the dot every year. The truth is,Strome has had two fair chances,both here and he took advantage of both. Dach had his chance to play the team's best players and on the PP,he didn't produce like Strome when he did....period. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 24, 2022 9:58:06 GMT -6
With Kirby ignoring social media halfway through the season, like he did before his draft, plus his brother most likely making the team next season, I think he'll have a breakout season...hopefully with no actual breaks or injuries.
Colton is better at faceoffs so maybe KD will play on his wing, put Katchouk or Raddysh on the other wing and that might be a good 3rd line.
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Kirby Dach
Jun 24, 2022 13:33:20 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by vadarx on Jun 24, 2022 13:33:20 GMT -6
With Kirby ignoring social media halfway through the season, like he did before his draft, plus his brother most likely making the team next season, I think he'll have a breakout season...hopefully with no actual breaks or injuries. Colton is better at faceoffs so maybe KD will play on his wing, put Katchouk or Raddysh on the other wing and that might be a good 3rd line. it will be funny to me if Colton comes in and takes a center spot. Kirby was supposed to be a center, but a lot of folks saw him as a wing before his draft, whereas Colton was supposed to be a power forward and now might be a center... |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 24, 2022 15:08:51 GMT -6
With Kirby ignoring social media halfway through the season, like he did before his draft, plus his brother most likely making the team next season, I think he'll have a breakout season...hopefully with no actual breaks or injuries. Colton is better at faceoffs so maybe KD will play on his wing, put Katchouk or Raddysh on the other wing and that might be a good 3rd line. it will be funny to me if Colton comes in and takes a center spot. Kirby was supposed to be a center, but a lot of folks saw him as a wing before his draft, whereas Colton was supposed to be a power forward and now might be a center... CD was a lot better at faceoffs in the WHL and drafted as a C/LW, I'd at least have them take turns on their strong side, although I don't know if Kirby has one. They probably thought of KD as a winger because he was just over 40% in juniors. Before he played in the NHL I said he should've been on Toews wing, who better to learn from. And yeah Colton plays more of a powerforward game and shoots first, whereas Kirby is more of a playmaker, 2way forward. |
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Kirby Dach
Jun 24, 2022 15:51:09 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by vadarx on Jun 24, 2022 15:51:09 GMT -6
it will be funny to me if Colton comes in and takes a center spot. Kirby was supposed to be a center, but a lot of folks saw him as a wing before his draft, whereas Colton was supposed to be a power forward and now might be a center... CD was a lot better at faceoffs in the WHL and drafted as a C/LW, I'd at least have them take turns on their strong side, although I don't know if Kirby has one. They probably thought of KD as a winger because he was just over 40% in juniors. Before he played in the NHL I said he should've been on Toews wing, who better to learn from. And yeah Colton plays more of a powerforward game and shoots first, whereas Kirby is more of a playmaker, 2way forward. it was mostly that last paragraph I was speaking to. Colton has a better shot and seems to play more of a PF type game, imo. Kirby's FO numbers screamed "wing" before he was drafted and I know I've echoed the experts here in that I thought he would end up there (vs center), but I would say he otherwise plays more of a center's game. I would actually call him more of tweener, which isn't what we needed at all out of a 3rd overall selection. he really needs to work on his faceoffs this summer and decide asap which spot is best for him, otherwise he is going to end up with no spot... |
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Post by nighbor on Jun 24, 2022 21:21:36 GMT -6
The Atlethic Dec 19, 2018. Wraparound: Dylan Strome busting out of the bust label in the early going with Blackhawks. Playing with 12 and 88 favored Strome. Dach had not played with neither while Strome played with 12 for 3 or 4 years in Erie forming chemistry. Dach has to improve his production and that will happen when he has consistant linemates. When teams trade for two or more players they like to keep them together rather than throw them into the deep end of the pool therefore Strome started with Perlini . If Perlini is your idea of Strome making someone better he has more work to do. So now Strome turned Kane into a goal scorer. It has been my experience that scorers run hot and coid and Kane had been been running cold. You can consider a young center getting 21gms @20 and 20 more @21 a bust but some teams take more time with young centers. Strome's first 48 (bust) games saw 7gls and 18pts and that's still a better pace than Dach has seen,Strome also improved at the dot every year. The truth is,Strome has had two fair chances,both here and he took advantage of both. Dach had his chance to play the team's best players and on the PP,he didn't produce like Strome when he did....period. A bust is a player who dosen't live up to a team's (AZ) expectations. Strome was expected to be a Joe Thornton type. He was given an extra two seasons in junior plus AHL experience so he should have been ready to make an impression in his 2nd 20 game stretch and 6 pts is not an impression. There was a reason we got 2 for1. Strome only produces with 12. He has yet to prove he can produce without him. The difference is Strome had years of playing with 12 forming a bond and developing chemistry whereas Dach was starting at square one and that gave Strome a leg up and that makes a difference.. We have been more disappointed and critical of Dach as he hasn't lived up to our unreasonable expectations of being the next Captain Serious and he is one of a kind. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 25, 2022 8:41:16 GMT -6
You can consider a young center getting 21gms @20 and 20 more @21 a bust but some teams take more time with young centers. Strome's first 48 (bust) games saw 7gls and 18pts and that's still a better pace than Dach has seen,Strome also improved at the dot every year. The truth is,Strome has had two fair chances,both here and he took advantage of both. Dach had his chance to play the team's best players and on the PP,he didn't produce like Strome when he did....period. A bust is a player who dosen't live up to a team's (AZ) expectations. Strome was expected to be a Joe Thornton type. He was given an extra two seasons in junior plus AHL experience so he should have been ready to make an impression in his 2nd 20 game stretch and 6 pts is not an impression. There was a reason we got 2 for1. Strome only produces with 12. He has yet to prove he can produce without him. The difference is Strome had years of playing with 12 forming a bond and developing chemistry whereas Dach was starting at square one and that gave Strome a leg up and that makes a difference.. We have been more disappointed and critical of Dach as he hasn't lived up to our unreasonable expectations of being the next Captain Serious and he is one of a kind. We got 2 for 1 because Schmaltz was the more proven player at the time,comming off a 21/52 78gm season. It appears the two extra years in Jr's and the slower approach AZ took with Strome resulted in a good player @24........unless 22/48 in 69gms isn't a good year for him considering what he's gone through........ESPECIALLY the work put in to win 52.3% of his draws. Too bad Dach didn't see another year or two of development and a HC who didn't guarantee him a center spot at 18&19 even though he wins FO's at 34%. That 20 game stretch also saw him win FIFTY EIGHT percent of his draws and it apparently took a bit longer for his offensive game to develop a well as his FO's have. You and many other Strome critics say Strome only produces with 12 and there's NO arguing their seamless chemistry,both of D-Cat's 41 goal seasons also came playing with #17 if we stop and notice. Does Kane make em both better? Yes....he makes almost everyone not named Sukura better but he was much better once he joined 12&17 this year too. At least we know Strome does produce with good players on his line and we know he's not suited for a 3rd line checking role......so why not play a young player where he succeeds instead of trying to force a Harry Potter square peg into an otherwise effective round hole? Strome's two ineffective,dinged-up,mis-used seasons were sandwiched in between two that saw him get extended time with good linemates and produce accordingly.....NO? Strome DOES need good players to produce with as do most offensive players but they don't have to be named Kane and DeBrincat.....as we'll more than likely see going forward......just a guy who can finish his passes and another guy who can set him up once in a while too. I like Strome because I see a young player who I believe has persevered through a tough patch of injuries and a HC who just didn't like him and a guy who'd practice with Kane and Cat during the summer just to see another Rockford guy get his spot when the year would start. He didn't speak out or lose confidence somehow........he worked hard and kept himself ready to take advantage of his next opportunity and he did so. Hasn't Kirby Dach had a chance to play with these same players and on the PP? This is just player preference, I respect your opinion and I appreciate the back n forth. |
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Post by steamer on Jun 25, 2022 8:59:44 GMT -6
I hope Dach can learn from Strome on how to persevere over admittedly some different circumstances. He is 4 years younger than Strome so if he applies himself he can be a similar player. They are about the same size - Dach is an inch taller. AZ traded Strome right about this point in Dach’s career so it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 3, 2022 22:11:19 GMT -6
Not sure young colton deserves his own thread yet so i'll just plunk him here with big brother.
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Post by BigT on Jul 4, 2022 8:03:46 GMT -6
That’s cool that they have a great bond. I for one was hoping they picked Colton last year. He seems like a solid kid and his game really elevated this year. Another couple years of development and this kid could be something!!!
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Post by steamer on Jul 4, 2022 18:49:00 GMT -6
That’s cool that they have a great bond. I for one was hoping they picked Colton last year. He seems like a solid kid and his game really elevated this year. Another couple years of development and this kid could be something!!! Hopefully they do a better job bringing him along than they did with his brother. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 4, 2022 19:08:16 GMT -6
That’s cool that they have a great bond. I for one was hoping they picked Colton last year. He seems like a solid kid and his game really elevated this year. Another couple years of development and this kid could be something!!! Hopefully they do a better job bringing him along than they did with his brother. He looked good in camp last year and he was given a contract, thought he might've got rushed at 18 like Kirby, glad he went back to the WHL. But if he plays with his brother in the preseason and they look good together and it carries over into the regular season they should keep him here. If he's not ready he can always go back, Richardson will know. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 4, 2022 19:15:52 GMT -6
The last GM screwed up Kirby by parading him around the city and not giving him a chance to be a leader for the Blades in his brothers first year, and winning gold with Canada.
He's now off social media, like before his draft year, and Colton will be in his second training camp, I have a good feeling these guys will push each other to be better.
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Post by tincup on Jul 7, 2022 11:21:18 GMT -6
Are Dach and Boqvist comparables even though they play different positions? Both 21, both rushed, oft injured and considered underachievers for their draft positions. Boqvist was extended in Columbus for 3 years at $2.6. His NHL numbers are very similar to Dach's, 17-34=51 in 128 games vs. 19-40=59 in 152. Is a similar contract for Dach therefore applicable?
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 7, 2022 11:53:39 GMT -6
Maybe a little I think more might be Kappo and rumors are Avv of 4 mill for 3 years. I don’t think KD is in a rush to do anything and that’s not a bad thing.
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Post by steamer on Jul 7, 2022 12:07:09 GMT -6
Boquist has gotten his as a D-man versus Dach as a center so in one way of viewing it, he’s produced at a higher level particularly since Dach did get a lot of minutes with Hawks’ higher end offensive players. That said I think Dach has more upside than Boquist but it’s certainly not guaranteed that he rises to the occasion.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 7, 2022 14:47:43 GMT -6
Are Dach and Boqvist comparables even though they play different positions? Both 21, both rushed, oft injured and considered underachievers for their draft positions. Boqvist was extended in Columbus for 3 years at $2.6. His NHL numbers are very similar to Dach's, 17-34=51 in 128 games vs. 19-40=59 in 152. Is a similar contract for Dach therefore applicable? In my estimation, not really. Boqvist by being a defenseman means the emphasis on him has to be on defense--O is the icing on the cake. Ergo, Boqvist putting up better O numbers looks worse for Dach. As said before Dach has zero leverage for his next deal. Qualify, then do something like 1.5-2M AAV over 2 years, and if he doesn't like it he can try the offer sheet market. I doubt anyone will take him for much more than $2.5M AAV, and if it's reasonably above $2M AAV we match. The only way Kappo or Dach are worth $4M AAV is in an EA sports game with their numbers and play. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 7, 2022 20:03:20 GMT -6
If Dach thought he had a rough go here, wait until he plays as an English speaker in front of those fans and media. He’s a hometown boy to me so I’m wishing him the best of luck and I’ll follow him there.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 7, 2022 21:34:50 GMT -6
If Dach thought he had a rough go here, wait until he plays as an English speaker in front of those fans and media. He’s a hometown boy to me so I’m wishing him the best of luck and I’ll follow him there. yeah, best of luck to him. he was not given a ton of support here, maybe he will do better elsewhere. too bad he and Colton won't be able to play together now... |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 7, 2022 22:01:35 GMT -6
If Dach thought he had a rough go here, wait until he plays as an English speaker in front of those fans and media. He’s a hometown boy to me so I’m wishing him the best of luck and I’ll follow him there. yeah, best of luck to him. he was not given a ton of support here, maybe he will do better elsewhere. too bad he and Colton won't be able to play together now... Hawks can save money and give Colton his brothers sweater and number. |
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Post by steamer on Jul 8, 2022 7:48:46 GMT -6
I hope this is the last time Hawks f around with one of their top picks. With 20/20 hindsight, Dach was probably not a great choice but the org did a piss poor job with developing him. I wish him better luck in Montreal and regardless of whether it's here or there, he needs to work harder to become a good player.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2022 8:33:01 GMT -6
I hope this is the last time Hawks f around with one of their top picks. With 20/20 hindsight, Dach was probably not a great choice but the org did a piss poor job with developing him. I wish him better luck in Montreal and regardless of whether it's here or there, he needs to work harder to become a good player. One of the first things KD talked about when he became the GM was developing kids properly, something the last guy never did. Richardson talked about it as well so I think they're gonna do this right. It's funny how the Canadians think they're getting a legit 2C, they're going to be disappointed when they realize he's brutal at faceoffs and kinda fragile. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 8, 2022 22:51:05 GMT -6
I hope this is the last time Hawks f around with one of their top picks. With 20/20 hindsight, Dach was probably not a great choice but the org did a piss poor job with developing him. I wish him better luck in Montreal and regardless of whether it's here or there, he needs to work harder to become a good player. One of the first things KD talked about when he became the GM was developing kids properly, something the last guy never did. Richardson talked about it as well so I think they're gonna do this right. It's funny how the Canadians think they're getting a legit 2C, they're going to be disappointed when they realize he's brutal at faceoffs and kinda fragile. We will find out soon enough if Lucas starts with the big club it’s just more of the same. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 9, 2022 3:34:59 GMT -6
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 9, 2022 4:14:26 GMT -6
One of the first things KD talked about when he became the GM was developing kids properly, something the last guy never did. Richardson talked about it as well so I think they're gonna do this right. It's funny how the Canadians think they're getting a legit 2C, they're going to be disappointed when they realize he's brutal at faceoffs and kinda fragile. We will find out soon enough if Lucas starts with the big club it’s just more of the same. If he's ready he should start in Chicago, Richardson will know. And if it was more of the same he wouldn't have been sent back down last season. |
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