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Post by hsbob on May 29, 2022 10:49:33 GMT -6
If this is your rational.........would you say the power play needed more D-Cats of fewer D-Cats?LOL! A big power winger to dig pucks out of the corners is the real need. Of course, these types are hard to find. NOBODY'S wanted a power forward longer than I have but a PP without a finisher has no one to dig pucks out for. It's hard to find a guy to dig pucks out but easy to find 40 goal scorers? You make little sense at times for a smart guy! |
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Post by mvr on May 29, 2022 12:10:49 GMT -6
It is all supply and demand. There are few capable power wingers and centres. There are fewer still quality first pairing defencemen.
Build the backbone of a team and then look for the scoring winger.
Kubalik scored 30 goals a couple of years back in just over half a season. Is he or someone like him going to produce as much as Debrincat? No.
But he might be good enough at less than half the price.
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Post by BigT on May 29, 2022 13:45:19 GMT -6
It is all supply and demand. There are few capable power wingers and centres. There are fewer still quality first pairing defencemen. Build the backbone of a team and then look for the scoring winger. Kubalik scored 30 goals a couple of years back in just over half a season. Is he or someone like him going to produce as much as Debrincat? No. But he might be good enough at less than half the price. True. Or you could have both. I’d ask Dcat what he’s aiming for as far as salary demands. If it’s more than S Jones. I trade him. I agree I would not spend that kind of money on the player. I’ll wait it out through the draft and get the guys I wanna pay!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 29, 2022 16:14:37 GMT -6
Cap space is finite. There is only so much of it.
You know what I think. Good teams slot 2/3 of it to seven core players (a goalie, three defencemen, a power winger, and two centres - or in the Hawks' situation from 2010-15 - one centre and one elite playmaker).
The shooters/scorers come at the end, either through the draft, free agency or a trade. You look to fill this position without spending the money. Best case scenario is to fill the role with a young kid on his first or second contract.
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Kirby Dach
May 29, 2022 21:34:52 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 29, 2022 21:34:52 GMT -6
Cap space is finite. There is only so much of it. You know what I think. Good teams slot 2/3 of it to seven core players (a goalie, three defencemen, a power winger, and two centres - or in the Hawks' situation from 2010-15 - one centre and one elite playmaker). The shooters/scorers come at the end, either through the draft, free agency or a trade. You look to fill this position without spending the money. Best case scenario is to fill the role with a young kid on his first or second contract. Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 30, 2022 4:19:57 GMT -6
Cap space is finite. There is only so much of it. You know what I think. Good teams slot 2/3 of it to seven core players (a goalie, three defencemen, a power winger, and two centres - or in the Hawks' situation from 2010-15 - one centre and one elite playmaker). The shooters/scorers come at the end, either through the draft, free agency or a trade. You look to fill this position without spending the money. Best case scenario is to fill the role with a young kid on his first or second contract. Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! Certainly agree with you. Find a high-end defenceman who can shut down the opponent play both ways. This is the key. Priority number one. To my mind, if you have the other quality pieces (and some real good defence), the scoring will come. It should not all be concentrated on one or two players regardless. |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 30, 2022 9:32:33 GMT -6
Cap space is finite. There is only so much of it. You know what I think. Good teams slot 2/3 of it to seven core players (a goalie, three defencemen, a power winger, and two centres - or in the Hawks' situation from 2010-15 - one centre and one elite playmaker). The shooters/scorers come at the end, either through the draft, free agency or a trade. You look to fill this position without spending the money. Best case scenario is to fill the role with a young kid on his first or second contract. Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. |
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Post by mvr on May 30, 2022 9:47:31 GMT -6
One more high end defender would make all the difference.
Unlike many here, I have confidence in Jones. I also think the others if slotted appropriately are just fine in a cap world. The problem is that certain guys are presently being asked to do more than they can.
Jones' partner last was Dehaan, who ideally is a third pairing guy lined up against bottom six forwards.
I agree about the development coaching. How is it that Dach is still standing too erect without his feet planted before every faceoff? It has been three years. He rarely looks set.
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Post by BigT on May 30, 2022 10:04:13 GMT -6
Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. I agree. The Hawks have had way too many failures. This is why you need hockey guys in the front office and not bean counters. It sucks that they can’t see a problem. If it weren’t for the previous hockey guys, the bean counter would have failed miserably from the get go. I don’t think there’s much that the big club does in the way of development. The Hawks just seem to send them out and it’s on the players to perform. So I don’t see much developing on the big club and the AHL was always a disaster. Also guess who I ran into last night? Ted Dent. He’s now the coach of Flint Firebirds. They’re in a series (3rd round) with my Spitfires. There’s a bar that the players, billets, parents, coaches GMs, Scouts etc all hang out after the games in the WFCU Center. I didn’t really say much to him. He was talk with Big Bert (Bertuzzi) and his sons Tag got injured and he didn’t seem happy at all. Actually, he seems like the biggest dick to be honest. Our kids were trying to meet him and talk to him and he pretty much shunned them. So Will Cuylle spits captain stepped in and talked to the boys for 50th time this year. He seems classy and takes time for the kids. Not like the older Bertuzzi. Anyways. Dent sucked for the Hogs and it seemed he got a free pass for many years. The last GM let it all slide and now the team is paying the price. The only developing Dach ever needed was to head back to Jrs and get more experience. He played a total of 133 games in Jrs. That’s a year and a half total. And he only had 129 points. So roughly a point per game. Wyatt Johnston came back to the Spits this year. He had a meh year the year before, drafted in the first round. Came back and threw up a 124 point season. Dach who’s much bigger and supposedly better as a high pick. If he went back, Dach more than likely gets over a 100 points and takes his team to the playoffs. More than likely makes team Canada and develops just like every other kid!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 30, 2022 17:15:49 GMT -6
Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. I agree. The Hawks have had way too many failures. This is why you need hockey guys in the front office and not bean counters. It sucks that they can’t see a problem. If it weren’t for the previous hockey guys, the bean counter would have failed miserably from the get go. I don’t think there’s much that the big club does in the way of development. The Hawks just seem to send them out and it’s on the players to perform. So I don’t see much developing on the big club and the AHL was always a disaster. Also guess who I ran into last night? Ted Dent. He’s now the coach of Flint Firebirds. They’re in a series (3rd round) with my Spitfires. There’s a bar that the players, billets, parents, coaches GMs, Scouts etc all hang out after the games in the WFCU Center. I didn’t really say much to him. He was talk with Big Bert (Bertuzzi) and his sons Tag got injured and he didn’t seem happy at all. Actually, he seems like the biggest dick to be honest. Our kids were trying to meet him and talk to him and he pretty much shunned them. So Will Cuylle spits captain stepped in and talked to the boys for 50th time this year. He seems classy and takes time for the kids. Not like the older Bertuzzi. Anyways. Dent sucked for the Hogs and it seemed he got a free pass for many years. The last GM let it all slide and now the team is paying the price. The only developing Dach ever needed was to head back to Jrs and get more experience. He played a total of 133 games in Jrs. That’s a year and a half total. And he only had 129 points. So roughly a point per game. Wyatt Johnston came back to the Spits this year. He had a meh year the year before, drafted in the first round. Came back and threw up a 124 point season. Dach who’s much bigger and supposedly better as a high pick. If he went back, Dach more than likely gets over a 100 points and takes his team to the playoffs. More than likely makes team Canada and develops just like every other kid!!! Then none of these people are needed in the ORG. PLAYER DEVELOPMENT Mark Eaton: Asst. General Manager, Player Development Brian Campbell: Player Development Coach Erik Condra: Player Development Coach Kendall Coyne Schofield: Player Development Coach and Youth Hockey Growth Specialist Yanic Perreault: Player Development Coach Peter Aubry: Developmental Goaltending Coach Kevin Delaney: Skating & Skills Development Chris Kunitz: Player Development Advisor |
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Post by mvr on May 31, 2022 5:35:39 GMT -6
To my mind, this is the bigger problem, much more so than amateur scouting.
The Hawks have not developed young players effectively.
A smart approach is to draft players with natural high end talent - skating, hockey sense, size and strong will - areas which can't be taught. Coaches should be able to teach skills such as winning a faceoff or playing sound fundamental defence.
Many of these coaches have been around for some time now. The track record speaks.
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Post by LordKOTL on May 31, 2022 9:03:31 GMT -6
Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. To my eye Jones is a Brian Campbell in his 1st go around. He's heavily O-biased, even though he won't give RJ Umberger nightmares. That's okay for a #1, as long as he's got a defensive stalwart as a partner...and the 'hawks haven't had anyone defensively stalwart since they traded Hjammer away. As such, Jones is exposed for his lack of strong D. He's not a 3-zone got like Keith. I think without Bowman the Beancounter things should get better, especially for development. As for Dach, you gotta give him a show me deal. He may be oft injured, and may have been rushed, but at this point how much more time do we spend on him? He's not playing to his size either. This summer he should be grafted to Yannic Perrault. IMNSHO if he can't produce more than 40% at the dot next season (and with all summer to work on faceoffs this should not be an unreasonable team), I really think we gotta consider moving on. |
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Post by steamer on May 31, 2022 10:23:31 GMT -6
I have leaned towards giving this 21 year old more time to develop and am hoping he’s not already damaged goods thanks to the lack of proper coaching, spending too little time in Rockford, allowed to play top line minutes when clearly not up to it. Of course with the Hawks’ very limited options for top line talent Colliton and King were throwing everything against the wall and constantly changing lineups. Anyway hope KD & co. realize this and can address it. He does not deserve $4mm unless that’s total over 2 years.
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Post by hsbob on May 31, 2022 10:48:02 GMT -6
Ideally yes. However, we have to accept a Kane, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl etc. if those players happen. You don’t “ throw out the baby with the bath water”. The Lightning really aren’t that strong down the middle. They’re what they are. An overall good team with a Norris caliber Dman. When you don’t have a Hedman, winning the Cup is more than a task. This is why I wanted Byram so bad. The Hawks need that player very bad. Not a guy who barely proved himself to be in the top 10 of the draft. The Hawks main priority should be getting a top notch Dman. If not. It should be getting a franchise forward. Like the ones mentioned above!!! Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. Campbell worked with the 18yro up in London his first time on the NA rink,he put up 20/60 +12 from the back-end in 54 OHL games as a skinny kid BUT I remember 'Soupy' saying he had a lot of work to do in his own end and he looked forward to working with him further at Rockford the following year..........DUMBASS left him there for 15 games. Boqvist was a skinny,concussed teenager when DUMBASS rushed him into a league he wasn't ready for so he could display his genius,much like Dach I guess.......it's hard to develop kids who are in over their heads! Jokiharju was good @19 and he's even better @22 but DUMBASS traded him away because Potter didn't like him.......speaking of bad development! Mitchell had a good AHL year and should have seen more games by now for assessment and development but DUMBASS kept adding vet D-men. Beudin just looks like a bad pick by DUMBASS. Q was also bringing Forsling along nicely before he was dumped,38gms as a 20yro and 41 more as a 21yro but DUMBASS and Potter put their heads together and gave him away the following summer. The 25yro D-man plays big minutes now and put up 10/37 in 71gms while concentrating on his own end witnessed by his +41. I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly by the last staff but the recuring theme seems to be 'DUMBASS' and that's HARD to overcome! |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 31, 2022 10:59:46 GMT -6
Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. Campbell worked with the 18yro up in London his first time on the NA rink,he put up 20/60 +12 from the back-end in 54 OHL games as a skinny kid BUT I remember 'Soupy' saying he had a lot of work to do in his own end and he looked forward to working with him further at Rockford the following year..........DUMBASS left him there for 15 games. Boqvist was a skinny,concussed teenager when DUMBASS rushed him into a league he wasn't ready for so he could display his genius,much like Dach I guess.......it's hard to develop kids who are in over their heads! Jokiharju was good @19 and he's even better @22 but DUMBASS traded him away because Potter didn't like him.......speaking of bad development! Mitchell had a good AHL year and should have seen more games by now for assessment and development but DUMBASS kept adding vet D-men. Beudin just looks like a bad pick by DUMBASS. Q was also bringing Forsling along nicely before he was dumped,38gms as a 20yro and 41 more as a 21yro but DUMBASS and Potter put their heads together and gave him away the following summer. The 25yro D-man plays big minutes now and put up 10/37 in 71gms while concentrating on his own end witnessed by his +41. I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly by the last staff but the recuring theme seems to be 'DUMBASS' and that's HARD to overcome! Campbell was still there with him with Hawks for the 2 years and he got worse defensivly. Soupy was never a good defenseman, that's why he was paired with Hammer to cover for his blunders. |
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Kirby Dach
May 31, 2022 11:02:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 31, 2022 11:02:19 GMT -6
I have leaned towards giving this 21 year old more time to develop and am hoping he’s not already damaged goods thanks to the lack of proper coaching, spending too little time in Rockford, allowed to play top line minutes when clearly not up to it. Of course with the Hawks’ very limited options for top line talent Colliton and King were throwing everything against the wall and constantly changing lineups. Anyway hope KD & co. realize this and can address it. He does not deserve $4mm unless that’s total over 2 years. Ya, I agree. I don’t see how they can throw him 4 million. I don’t think another team does either. I know MVR brought this up, but I doubt a team will pull a Carolina and piss off the Hawks. Especially if they really want the player, the Hawks would obviously match. So all they’d be doing is giving a guy a hefty unwarranted raise. All the Hawks would receive is a 3rd rounder if 4 million or under. So they’d obviously match. So I believe the Hawks hold all the cards here and I believe he will accept a 2 year deal worth 1.5 per. It’s his show me deal. Signing him to an 8 year deal is way too risky with not much upside. I can’t giving him a Hughes type deal. I just can’t. Imagine even 6 million per for 8 years? It could end up being a bargain. But it could be the unmovable stone very quickly!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 31, 2022 11:06:28 GMT -6
One more high end defender would make all the difference. Unlike many here, I have confidence in Jones. I also think the others if slotted appropriately are just fine in a cap world. The problem is that certain guys are presently being asked to do more than they can. Jones' partner last was Dehaan, who ideally is a third pairing guy lined up against bottom six forwards. I agree about the development coaching. How is it that Dach is still standing too erect without his feet planted before every faceoff? It has been three years. He rarely looks set. Well then we have to go back to Dach's coaches at Fort Saskatchewan, Saskatoon and team Canada U17 and U18 because he's never won half his draws at any level. We've seen JT work with him until they stop it because JT's winnin' em all and I thought Yanic Perreault was a well respected FO coach. As I said in another post,I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly but I gotta think FO vets like JT and Tyler Johnson have offered advice. D-Cat and Hagel hit the ground runnin' here and Strome has improved his FO's nicely. Dach and Borgstrom might have slept through class. |
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Post by BigT on May 31, 2022 11:08:54 GMT -6
Isn't Jones supposed to be that top notch Dman? Isn't that why he got 9.5 for max years a nd full on NMC? Maybe "IF" they get a new D system will be the answer. Now back to Dach, I've made it clear my opinion has been the so called development staff needs to go. I find it hard to believe that the last 4 dmen drafted have been that bad or was it the development coach? Campbell. As I recall he took a personal hands on with Boqvist and made him so much worse. Campbell worked with the 18yro up in London his first time on the NA rink,he put up 20/60 +12 from the back-end in 54 OHL games as a skinny kid BUT I remember 'Soupy' saying he had a lot of work to do in his own end and he looked forward to working with him further at Rockford the following year..........DUMBASS left him there for 15 games. Boqvist was a skinny,concussed teenager when DUMBASS rushed him into a league he wasn't ready for so he could display his genius,much like Dach I guess.......it's hard to develop kids who are in over their heads! Jokiharju was good @19 and he's even better @22 but DUMBASS traded him away because Potter didn't like him.......speaking of bad development! Mitchell had a good AHL year and should have seen more games by now for assessment and development but DUMBASS kept adding vet D-men. Beudin just looks like a bad pick by DUMBASS. Q was also bringing Forsling along nicely before he was dumped,38gms as a 20yro and 41 more as a 21yro but DUMBASS and Potter put their heads together and gave him away the following summer. The 25yro D-man plays big minutes now and put up 10/37 in 71gms while concentrating on his own end witnessed by his +41. I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly by the last staff but the recuring theme seems to be 'DUMBASS' and that's HARD to overcome! I was listening to Zawaski’s new podcast the other day. It’s pretty good. They’ve been really laying into the Scambo era. Really letting him have it. They brought up a lot of the stuff you have recently. Hear a link to the pod if anyone cares!!! podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/chgo-chicago-blackhawks-podcast/id1080477414 |
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Post by hsbob on May 31, 2022 11:18:27 GMT -6
Campbell worked with the 18yro up in London his first time on the NA rink,he put up 20/60 +12 from the back-end in 54 OHL games as a skinny kid BUT I remember 'Soupy' saying he had a lot of work to do in his own end and he looked forward to working with him further at Rockford the following year..........DUMBASS left him there for 15 games. Boqvist was a skinny,concussed teenager when DUMBASS rushed him into a league he wasn't ready for so he could display his genius,much like Dach I guess.......it's hard to develop kids who are in over their heads! Jokiharju was good @19 and he's even better @22 but DUMBASS traded him away because Potter didn't like him.......speaking of bad development! Mitchell had a good AHL year and should have seen more games by now for assessment and development but DUMBASS kept adding vet D-men. Beudin just looks like a bad pick by DUMBASS. Q was also bringing Forsling along nicely before he was dumped,38gms as a 20yro and 41 more as a 21yro but DUMBASS and Potter put their heads together and gave him away the following summer. The 25yro D-man plays big minutes now and put up 10/37 in 71gms while concentrating on his own end witnessed by his +41. I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly by the last staff but the recuring theme seems to be 'DUMBASS' and that's HARD to overcome! Campbell was still there with him with Hawks for the 2 years and he got worse defensivly. Soupy was never a good defenseman, that's why he was paired with Hammer to cover for his blunders. Brian Campbell is NOT and was NOT a Black Hawks bench coach and no longer worked with Boqvist once he got to Chicago,'Soupy' might have been offensive minded but he was always a good D-man who was average in his own end IMO. He was a good D-man before he got here and a real horse for Florida after he left. Boqvist was a skinny,concussed,teenager who desperately needed an AHL season or two,I don't know what coach overcomes that. Maybe Potter and his nit-witted staff made him worse! |
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Post by steamer on May 31, 2022 13:25:45 GMT -6
The rushing to the NHL of both Dach and Boquist are remarkably similar. Not surprising I guess since that's how the org has approached first rounders. Hopefully they can both rise above their mis-handling and have good careers. I haven't pulled any stats but I don't think too many 18/19 year olds are successful immediately, even the very high picks. Many are college bound for a couple of years or more and others toil and grow in the minors.
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Post by mvr on May 31, 2022 17:17:20 GMT -6
One more high end defender would make all the difference. Unlike many here, I have confidence in Jones. I also think the others if slotted appropriately are just fine in a cap world. The problem is that certain guys are presently being asked to do more than they can. Jones' partner last was Dehaan, who ideally is a third pairing guy lined up against bottom six forwards. I agree about the development coaching. How is it that Dach is still standing too erect without his feet planted before every faceoff? It has been three years. He rarely looks set. Well then we have to go back to Dach's coaches at Fort Saskatchewan, Saskatoon and team Canada U17 and U18 because he's never won half his draws at any level. We've seen JT work with him until they stop it because JT's winnin' em all and I thought Yanic Perreault was a well respected FO coach. As I said in another post,I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly but I gotta think FO vets like JT and Tyler Johnson have offered advice. D-Cat and Hagel hit the ground runnin' here and Strome has improved his FO's nicely. Dach and Borgstrom might have slept through class. Surely it is a skill that can be taught. Dach is an athlete. He should be able to figure it out with some coaching. So far, the methods being used are not working. |
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Post by hsbob on May 31, 2022 19:32:53 GMT -6
Well then we have to go back to Dach's coaches at Fort Saskatchewan, Saskatoon and team Canada U17 and U18 because he's never won half his draws at any level. We've seen JT work with him until they stop it because JT's winnin' em all and I thought Yanic Perreault was a well respected FO coach. As I said in another post,I'm not saying all the kids have been developed properly but I gotta think FO vets like JT and Tyler Johnson have offered advice. D-Cat and Hagel hit the ground runnin' here and Strome has improved his FO's nicely. Dach and Borgstrom might have slept through class. Surely it is a skill that can be taught. Dach is an athlete. He should be able to figure it out with some coaching. So far, the methods being used are not working. Guys like Kampf figured out how to win half his draws and a maligned Strome worked his ass off to win over half of his,Dach might just not have the proper hand-eye coordination to win draws since he never has. It can't be ALL of his coaches so fas can it? The kid looked good in the bubble and worked his way up to a career best 40% back in 20-21 only to regress to a career low 32.8% this year after a full camp and a healthy season till he hit a guy. |
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Kirby Dach
May 31, 2022 20:19:21 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on May 31, 2022 20:19:21 GMT -6
Surely it is a skill that can be taught. Dach is an athlete. He should be able to figure it out with some coaching. So far, the methods being used are not working. Guys like Kampf figured out how to win half his draws and a maligned Strome worked his ass off to win over half of his,Dach might just not have the proper hand-eye coordination to win draws since he never has. It can't be ALL of his coaches so fas can it? The kid looked good in the bubble and worked his way up to a career best 40% back in 20-21 only to regress to a career low 32.8% this year after a full camp and a healthy season till he hit a guy. Hahaha. I just don’t know what it is with him and physicality. That Russian kid literally bumped into him and his wrist turned into a wet noodle. He hits a guy for once this year and gets what? A concussion, separated shoulder, sand in his vagina. I really wanna like the kid. I really do. A big western Canada boy, that plays like a millennial on a on a teeder todder. I sure hope he finds something here. Because his brand of hockey is exactly what Scambo’s style was. He wanted kids that play a certain way, like they’re playing a friendly game of Shinny with a case of beer in the snow bank. I can understand the new management if they want to jettison ALL of Scambo’s assets. I think Dach gets dealt in a lateral move at the TDL. I really do!!! |
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Post by LordKOTL on May 31, 2022 21:03:02 GMT -6
Surely it is a skill that can be taught. Dach is an athlete. He should be able to figure it out with some coaching. So far, the methods being used are not working. Guys like Kampf figured out how to win half his draws and a maligned Strome worked his ass off to win over half of his,Dach might just not have the proper hand-eye coordination to win draws since he never has. It can't be ALL of his coaches so fas can it? The kid looked good in the bubble and worked his way up to a career best 40% back in 20-21 only to regress to a career low 32.8% this year after a full camp and a healthy season till he hit a guy. To be fair to Strome, he came into this past summer's camp looking like he wanted it. It's like he came in knowing if he screwed this year up he might be out of the league and his career is just another high draft pick who was all hype and nothing else. I mean he played the preseason like he could very well lose his slot--unlike Nylander who tried to coast through it. I can't help but wonder if Dach hasn't yet realized that he could turn into another Alex Nylander, Cam Barker, Sergei Samsonov, etc.--just another player who faded out of the NHL as nothing more than high draft pick failure. Maybe him getting a "show me" short term deal might light that fire under him--especially if Davidson et. al. is really looking to clean house from all of Bowman the Beancounter's mistakes. |
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Post by mvr on May 31, 2022 21:06:40 GMT -6
Is it possible, Big T, that your distaste about Bowman carries over to his pick of Dach?
You really want to "jettison" all of Scambo's assets? Even the promising kids on defence - Vlasic and Mitchell and the others? How about Debrincat? Should he carry that same stench because he was a Bowman pick? Small forwards are "exactly what Scambo's style was."
Dach is 21 years old. He needs much more time to assess. He plays a physical game. Come on now. Injuries happens. To my mind, drafting Dach represented a fundamental shift in Bowman's thinking. He did not draft a large centre like him in 12 plus years. If he had and even a few had worked out, the team would have been much more difficult to play against.
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Post by BigT on Jun 1, 2022 5:54:32 GMT -6
Is it possible, Big T, that your distaste about Bowman carries over to his pick of Dach? You really want to "jettison" all of Scambo's assets? Even the promising kids on defence - Vlasic and Mitchell and the others? How about Debrincat? Should he carry that same stench because he was a Bowman pick? Small forwards are "exactly what Scambo's style was." Dach is 21 years old. He needs much more time to assess. He plays a physical game. Come on now. Injuries happens. To my mind, drafting Dach represented a fundamental shift in Bowman's thinking. He did not draft a large centre like him in 12 plus years. If he had and even a few had worked out, the team would have been much more difficult to play against. Or is it the fact that most of Scambo’s guys aren’t that good? You’ve said it yourself that you wouldn’t sign Debrincat who’s a generational talent in my eyes. I wanna trade him to utilize asset management. More assets for one asset. Same with Dach. I’d suspect the new regime has had more than enough of the old regimes players. We should not be too excited about a bunch of 5,6,7 dmen coming. If they’re slotted higher, we’ll see more of the same we have now. If you were a GM, it sounds like you’d be a great trade partner to unload a few of these assets on. I’ll trade you Dach for a first rounder and a top prospect. And you can try and develop him. At some point, the lustre of a third overall does not shine anymore. If there’s a GM out there that’ll make the trade of a first rounder and a top prospect. Dach should be gone!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 1, 2022 7:34:19 GMT -6
Guys like Kampf figured out how to win half his draws and a maligned Strome worked his ass off to win over half of his,Dach might just not have the proper hand-eye coordination to win draws since he never has. It can't be ALL of his coaches so fas can it? The kid looked good in the bubble and worked his way up to a career best 40% back in 20-21 only to regress to a career low 32.8% this year after a full camp and a healthy season till he hit a guy. Hahaha. I just don’t know what it is with him and physicality. That Russian kid literally bumped into him and his wrist turned into a wet noodle. He hits a guy for once this year and gets what? A concussion, separated shoulder, sand in his vagina. I really wanna like the kid. I really do. A big western Canada boy, that plays like a millennial on a on a teeder todder. I sure hope he finds something here. Because his brand of hockey is exactly what Scambo’s style was. He wanted kids that play a certain way, like they’re playing a friendly game of Shinny with a case of beer in the snow bank. I can understand the new management if they want to jettison ALL of Scambo’s assets. I think Dach gets dealt in a lateral move at the TDL. I really do!!! For his and the team's sake,we have to hope he's able to put the last few years in the rearview mirror.......not something you want to say about your prize pick but let's hope. |
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Post by mvr on Jun 1, 2022 7:41:04 GMT -6
Is it possible, Big T, that your distaste about Bowman carries over to his pick of Dach? You really want to "jettison" all of Scambo's assets? Even the promising kids on defence - Vlasic and Mitchell and the others? How about Debrincat? Should he carry that same stench because he was a Bowman pick? Small forwards are "exactly what Scambo's style was." Dach is 21 years old. He needs much more time to assess. He plays a physical game. Come on now. Injuries happens. To my mind, drafting Dach represented a fundamental shift in Bowman's thinking. He did not draft a large centre like him in 12 plus years. If he had and even a few had worked out, the team would have been much more difficult to play against. Or is it the fact that most of Scambo’s guys aren’t that good? You’ve said it yourself that you wouldn’t sign Debrincat who’s a generational talent in my eyes. I wanna trade him to utilize asset management. More assets for one asset. Same with Dach. I’d suspect the new regime has had more than enough of the old regimes players. We should not be too excited about a bunch of 5,6,7 dmen coming. If they’re slotted higher, we’ll see more of the same we have now. If you were a GM, it sounds like you’d be a great trade partner to unload a few of these assets on. I’ll trade you Dach for a first rounder and a top prospect. And you can try and develop him. At some point, the lustre of a third overall does not shine anymore. If there’s a GM out there that’ll make the trade of a first rounder and a top prospect. Dach should be gone!!! I don't know if Dach will make it. I have seen glimpses of what he could become, but there are also concerns. He has the size and physique. He has obvious skill. But will he develop? Yes, he is a project. If there is a good trade to make, of course you explore it. All players on a rebuilding team should be considered trade assets. But I am also not a sell-low guy. I am not shopping Dach or Seth Jones right now because I think they are not worth as much in the trade market as they are to the team. Dach is coming off a down year, There are questions about him. It is not the right time to shop him. Debrincat, on the other hand, is a sell-high candidate (much like Hagel). The Hawks will never get more for him in a trade than right now. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jun 1, 2022 8:20:42 GMT -6
Is it possible, Big T, that your distaste about Bowman carries over to his pick of Dach? You really want to "jettison" all of Scambo's assets? Even the promising kids on defence - Vlasic and Mitchell and the others? How about Debrincat? Should he carry that same stench because he was a Bowman pick? Small forwards are "exactly what Scambo's style was." Dach is 21 years old. He needs much more time to assess. He plays a physical game. Come on now. Injuries happens. To my mind, drafting Dach represented a fundamental shift in Bowman's thinking. He did not draft a large centre like him in 12 plus years. If he had and even a few had worked out, the team would have been much more difficult to play against. Serious question: How much time and cap should the 'hawks put into assessing what Dach could be? Where's the breakover point between enough time to get a good look and (potentially) being stuck with a contract for a guy that failed to live up to expectations? How much cap should the 'hawks be willing to commit to him as a project? Personally, I think Dach has to be handled in small steps, and there's the onus on him as a player like I mentioned in my last post: I think we give him a short term "show me" deal and give criteria that he should be able to hit if he really works at it. Yes, he's a big-bodied center but he's not playing like one--and that's the problem. We can't expect him to become Toews overnight--that would be redonkulous, but I think he's old enough now and has played in enough NHL games that there has to be an expectation of improvement going into next season and beyond. I'd be very wary of committing a lot of time and a lot of cap to him at this point. Ergo, no reason we can't give him on a show-me deal and see if he doesn't have the drive to improve, and if he's less Strome and more Nylander, then cut ties. If he's less Nylander and more Strome then we continue developing him. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 1, 2022 8:32:09 GMT -6
Guys like Kampf figured out how to win half his draws and a maligned Strome worked his ass off to win over half of his,Dach might just not have the proper hand-eye coordination to win draws since he never has. It can't be ALL of his coaches so fas can it? The kid looked good in the bubble and worked his way up to a career best 40% back in 20-21 only to regress to a career low 32.8% this year after a full camp and a healthy season till he hit a guy. To be fair to Strome, he came into this past summer's camp looking like he wanted it. It's like he came in knowing if he screwed this year up he might be out of the league and his career is just another high draft pick who was all hype and nothing else. I mean he played the preseason like he could very well lose his slot--unlike Nylander who tried to coast through it. I can't help but wonder if Dach hasn't yet realized that he could turn into another Alex Nylander, Cam Barker, Sergei Samsonov, etc.--just another player who faded out of the NHL as nothing more than high draft pick failure. Maybe him getting a "show me" short term deal might light that fire under him--especially if Davidson et. al. is really looking to clean house from all of Bowman the Beancounter's mistakes. Strome might have been the best of the bunch in camp and Potter could care less! With JT covered with rust,Strome was the team's best center but found himself on the bench again in favor of much lesser players and the team had had enough! That start was a realization that Harry Potter had no business behind an NHL bench,the vets knew this for some time but I believe there was a buy-in with JT's return and the additions of Jones and MAF and then BOOM.......no Strome in the opening night line-up. Start the year with the same STUPID BULLSHIT! Lose game two to NJ in OT.....Gaudette drew-in ahead of Strome. Put 20 shots on net and lose game three to the Pens 5-2,Gaudette,Entwistle,Borgstrom,Khaira,Kuashev,Dach,T Johnson all draw-in ahead of Strome and Strome is better than all. The Isle find a friendly port in their long road trip storm for their first win and Hardman draws-in ahead of Strome this time and it's hard to imagine the feeling of disbelief in the locker room. Game 5 in Game 6 in....1ast 3SoG's in 11mins Game 7 back out Game 8 back out Gam 9 in Game 10.......Strome draws in....HAWKS WIN. Thanks to a hatie from Kane and two from Hagle Win game 10 you say.....back out for game 11 of course Strome draws-in for game 12 but it'll be Potter's last in the NHL......mark my words! King takes over,Strome draws back in...... www.nhl.com/gamecenter/ari-vs-chi/2021/11/12/2021020210#game=2021020210,game_state=final Hawks go 6-0-1 after a 1-9-2 start. King sat the kid a few times too though.....King is no genius either. |
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