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Post by Nikos on May 27, 2022 17:30:28 GMT -6
Not dismissing - putting them in context. About half of the player's points come either on three on three overtime or on the powerplay. Marner is an elite scorer who has been a consistent disappointment in the playoffs for many years now. There any many in Toronto who believe signing this small winger to a big contract was a mistake. I agree with them. Nazem Kadri, one of the key players Toronto had to trade to keep Marner, has demonstrated in Colorado that he can rise to the occasion in the big games. Just today, the Globe and Mail's Cathal Kelly writes about why centres like Kadri are so important to team playoff success. Guess who else scores a lot of their points on the power play since we are putting things into context. Panarin 39% of total 2021-2022 points Debrincat 36% of total 2021-2022 points Ovi 32% of total 2021-2022 points How about other elite snipers Stamkos 34% Draisaitl 37% |
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 18:02:39 GMT -6
As it stands, Dach is third in scoring in his draft year behind Hughes and Zegras, but ahead of Kakko.
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Post by mvr on May 27, 2022 18:09:50 GMT -6
Not dismissing - putting them in context. About half of the player's points come either on three on three overtime or on the powerplay. Marner is an elite scorer who has been a consistent disappointment in the playoffs for many years now. There any many in Toronto who believe signing this small winger to a big contract was a mistake. I agree with them. Nazem Kadri, one of the key players Toronto had to trade to keep Marner, has demonstrated in Colorado that he can rise to the occasion in the big games. Just today, the Globe and Mail's Cathal Kelly writes about why centres like Kadri are so important to team playoff success. Guess who else scores a lot of their points on the power play since we are putting things into context. Panarin 39% of total 2021-2022 points Debrincat 36% of total 2021-2022 points Ovi 32% of total 2021-2022 points How about other elite snipers Stamkos 34% Draisaitl 37% But of course, all four of your examples here produced far more offence. They had far more success at their primary job. The Hawks finished near the bottom of the league. One of the reasons why was because the powerplay was mediocre. |
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Post by BigT on May 27, 2022 19:42:52 GMT -6
I agree with both sides here. I fully agree to give Dach another couple years, but after that he’d be a bust. If the Hawks were in the market for a 3rd line center, I doubt they’d use a 3rd overall on a bottom 6. I think we can all agree that we’d like to see more out of a 3rd overall. Whether it’s fair or not doesn’t matter. 3rd overall picks are expected to produce more than 24 points.
I do also agree that bigger kids tend to take a wee bit longer. I don’t think I wait till he’s 25. I think that’s just a waste of an asset. On one hand I agree with patience. I had a smart fella once tell me, “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”. But at what point is patience no longer a virtue but more of a burden?
I feel it’s best to give him a 2 year “show me” deal. Once that’s done, he’ll be 23 and if he shows nothing by then, the extra two years won’t help anything. He’ll be a bust. Plain and simple.
One last thing to consider. It seems the Hawks are possibly the worst team over the last 5-6 years at developing kids. We’ve seen quite a few get dealt and have success elsewhere. So let’s hope that the Hawks get coaches in here with developing first and winning 2nd. Next year, I’d love to see Dach start the year on the 4th line. Move him to 3rd line once he earns it. Then to the 2nd line and some pp time. By Xmas I’d like to see him earn his way to the top 6. I think that’s realistic goals for now. I’d also like to see him be much more physical.
I’m rooting for the kid. But for a 3rd overall, we need to see a lot more. As in physical play, offensive play and leadership. He seems to whine a lot!!!
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Post by mvr on May 28, 2022 6:42:06 GMT -6
That's fair, Big T.
I just think we have to be realistic here and remember that Dach was always a high floor/low ceiling prospect. Nobody ever projected him to be a scoring leader.
Dach is a quality NHL player already, emerging from a weak draft year where many of his peers are still trying to get themselves established. Alex Turcotte, drafted two spots below Dach, is still not playing regularly. Quinton Byfield, drafted 2nd the following year, is just getting his feet wet. The Covid lockdowns has wrecked havoc on many of these players growth trajectories.
My expectation is that Dach will grow into a top six role next year - producing 35-40 points playing mostly on the second line. If he does not reach those numbers, then I will start to get concerned.
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Post by BigT on May 28, 2022 7:58:43 GMT -6
I know we can’t turn back the clocks. This is why I thought taking Byram was the safe pick. I doubt Colorado even takes Dach at 4. Even if they did, is he still playing in the playoffs for them right now? I doubt it. He’d be a black ace.
If the last people were really that bad. I hope they never work in the sport again. All because the last guy had a gawd dam dream. In the same place Toews was drafted. He wanted to draft another Center to be his understudy. And everything was alright. Seriously. That’s why he drafted Dach. Because of a gawd dam dream he had. He had a dream the night before the lotto and dreamed the Hawks got the 3rd overall and he took Dach to be the next Toews.
Now. I’m all for analytics and stuff like that. It’s just info. But you should never run a team based off of that. The same goes for dreams. Just idiotic at its best.
To believe that Boqvist was going to be a number one defenseman on top of that is awful. Imagine having Joker and Byram as a good young tandem right now? Then he drafted Bouchard or Dobsdon too? Like, the team would be amazing by now. And probably in the playoffs. Then instead of taking Beaudin. Bob and I discussed this to no end about taking the Huge kid Serron Noel. A big power forward type that definitely needs seasoning but a better path for the Hawks.
Fellas, I just proved how you can rebuild quickly. Constantly missing on draft picks is not going to help. The Hawks defense would’ve been rebuilt and we’d still have Toews Kane and Dcat. Just a few more forwards to get and the team would be back. Let’s hope the next guys don’t fuck this up even more!!!
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Post by hsbob on May 28, 2022 8:04:08 GMT -6
AH.....the ill-fated summer of 2019. DUMBASS figuring he was knee deep in NHL capable D prospects (Lil dudes Boqvist,Beaudin and Mitchell LOL) trades his own 1st round,20yro D-mam and somehow passes on the big German even though he loved taking Euro D-men. Did our Euro scouts miss on Seider....FIFTY points from the back end in his rookie season....4 GWG's!
Who wants a top pair of 21yro Moritz Seider and 22yro Henri Jokiharju anyway.
What if S Jones ISN'T acquired? We'd of had last year's 1st rounder,this year's first rounder,Boqvist as an asset and a SHIT TON of space to retain,buy-out or take on a bad deal or two.
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Post by hsbob on May 28, 2022 8:30:26 GMT -6
I know we can’t turn back the clocks. This is why I thought taking Byram was the safe pick. I doubt Colorado even takes Dach at 4. Even if they did, is he still playing in the playoffs for them right now? I doubt it. He’d be a black ace. If the last people were really that bad. I hope they never work in the sport again. All because the last guy had a gawd dam dream. In the same place Toews was drafted. He wanted to draft another Center to be his understudy. And everything was alright. Seriously. That’s why he drafted Dach. Because of a gawd dam dream he had. He had a dream the night before the lotto and dreamed the Hawks got the 3rd overall and he took Dach to be the next Toews. Now. I’m all for analytics and stuff like that. It’s just info. But you should never run a team based off of that. The same goes for dreams. Just idiotic at its best. To believe that Boqvist was going to be a number one defenseman on top of that is awful. Imagine having Joker and Byram as a good young tandem right now? Then he drafted Bouchard or Dobsdon too? Like, the team would be amazing by now. And probably in the playoffs. Then instead of taking Beaudin. Bob and I discussed this to no end about taking the Huge kid Serron Noel. A big power forward type that definitely needs seasoning but a better path for the Hawks. Fellas, I just proved how you can rebuild quickly. Constantly missing on draft picks is not going to help. The Hawks defense would’ve been rebuilt and we’d still have Toews Kane and Dcat. Just a few more forwards to get and the team would be back. Let’s hope the next guys don’t fuck this up even more!!! Then he faced the 'heir apparent' tag which more than likely came from the Org and the press ran with it........McD was still here and he owned the press. Another WHL season would have offered more development and an opportunity to possibly dominate opponents and a season in Rockford coulda really had this kid chompin' at the bit but instead we got a recently concussed 18yro getting HANDED top six minutes,PP time and I believe he's yet to be a healthy scratch. I doubt it was Potter who wanted him in there since he showed he could be skeptical of young players like Jokiharju and Strome......he even demoted D-Cat. My money's on DUMBASS wanting both Boqvist AND Dach in there to showcase his genius. Everything has come easy for Dach at this point and it shows. I know they say Dunks wanted to leave but I guarantee the feeling was mutual and he basically went along. Does he want to leave if you tell him 'we're bringin' in S Jones and we want you to pair with him? I know they're both left shot but is there a better choice for a Jones partner on our roster? Would you rather pay Keith 5M for one more or Murphy 4.4M for four more? Keith @38 still stays healthier and produces more offense and he's made a BIG difference in the culture up in Edmonton! |
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Post by Nikos on May 28, 2022 10:11:34 GMT -6
Guess who else scores a lot of their points on the power play since we are putting things into context. Panarin 39% of total 2021-2022 points Debrincat 36% of total 2021-2022 points Ovi 32% of total 2021-2022 points How about other elite snipers Stamkos 34% Draisaitl 37% But of course, all four of your examples here produced far more offence. They had far more success at their primary job. The Hawks finished near the bottom of the league. One of the reasons why was because the powerplay was mediocre. The comparison was to show that a lot of primary team scorers 30%-40% of their points are on the power play, back to your initial context that is where Debrincat scores most of his points. Image if the Hawks had a better team the opposition would have to focus on stopping more than just Debrincat, Kane & Strome which would provide more opportunities for this line and very likely more offense. Not unrealistic to think another 10%-20% offense would put Debrincat right there with all of these minus Draisaitl. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 28, 2022 11:10:24 GMT -6
I know we can’t turn back the clocks. This is why I thought taking Byram was the safe pick. I doubt Colorado even takes Dach at 4. Even if they did, is he still playing in the playoffs for them right now? I doubt it. He’d be a black ace. If the last people were really that bad. I hope they never work in the sport again. All because the last guy had a gawd dam dream. In the same place Toews was drafted. He wanted to draft another Center to be his understudy. And everything was alright. Seriously. That’s why he drafted Dach. Because of a gawd dam dream he had. He had a dream the night before the lotto and dreamed the Hawks got the 3rd overall and he took Dach to be the next Toews. Now. I’m all for analytics and stuff like that. It’s just info. But you should never run a team based off of that. The same goes for dreams. Just idiotic at its best. To believe that Boqvist was going to be a number one defenseman on top of that is awful. Imagine having Joker and Byram as a good young tandem right now? Then he drafted Bouchard or Dobsdon too? Like, the team would be amazing by now. And probably in the playoffs. Then instead of taking Beaudin. Bob and I discussed this to no end about taking the Huge kid Serron Noel. A big power forward type that definitely needs seasoning but a better path for the Hawks. Fellas, I just proved how you can rebuild quickly. Constantly missing on draft picks is not going to help. The Hawks defense would’ve been rebuilt and we’d still have Toews Kane and Dcat. Just a few more forwards to get and the team would be back. Let’s hope the next guys don’t fuck this up even more!!! Then he faced the 'heir apparent' tag which more than likely came from the Org and the press ran with it........McD was still here and he owned the press. Another WHL season would have offered more development and an opportunity to possibly dominate opponents and a season in Rockford coulda really had this kid chompin' at the bit but instead we got a recently concussed 18yro getting HANDED top six minutes,PP time and I believe he's yet to be a healthy scratch. I doubt it was Potter who wanted him in there since he showed he could be skeptical of young players like Jokiharju and Strome......he even demoted D-Cat. My money's on DUMBASS wanting both Boqvist AND Dach in there to showcase his genius. Everything has come easy for Dach at this point and it shows. I know they say Dunks wanted to leave but I guarantee the feeling was mutual and he basically went along. Does he want to leave if you tell him 'we're bringin' in S Jones and we want you to pair with him? I know they're both left shot but is there a better choice for a Jones partner on our roster? Would you rather pay Keith 5M for one more or Murphy 4.4M for four more? Keith @38 still stays healthier and produces more offense and he's made a BIG difference in the culture up in Edmonton! Seth is a right shot, not a left, but most of us wanted someone like Seth to be paired with Keith for a while but no he was paired with similar sized young kids. Duncs is a freak of nature and just needed help back there. And forcing Boqvist to play top2 at his age plus playing Dach at 18 were completely stupid moves that hopefully just stumbled their careers. Boqvist had a great year regarding goals but still misses a lot of games for health reasons. But 10 goals in 11 OHL playoff games is a crazy stat, he can score and he's used properly in Columbus. Now Dach needs to focus and hopefully his big little brother kicks his ass this offseason and they become a great 3rd line pair, maybe put Katchouk on that line. Big boys and Boris has some good hands and work ethic. Kirby was given too much at a young age, one more year in the WHL in Coltons first season and winning a gold with Canada would've been huge for his development but the last gm stole that from him. Now it's time to man up and show why he was drafted at #3. |
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Post by hsbob on May 28, 2022 11:33:27 GMT -6
But of course, all four of your examples here produced far more offence. They had far more success at their primary job. The Hawks finished near the bottom of the league. One of the reasons why was because the powerplay was mediocre. The comparison was to show that a lot of primary team scorers 30%-40% of their points are on the power play, back to your initial context that is where Debrincat scores most of his points. Image if the Hawks had a better team the opposition would have to focus on stopping more than just Debrincat, Kane & Strome which would provide more opportunities for this line and very likely more offense. Not unrealistic to think another 10%-20% offense would put Debrincat right there with all of these minus Draisaitl. And as far as producing more offense,D-Cat scores goals at a pace Panarin has never approached.....even when he played with Kane. Panarin's a better passer but he's 30,he had 47 assists @24 and D-Cat 37.........how many more would he have had if he skated with Kane all year,like Panarin did instead of just half of it? |
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Post by hsbob on May 28, 2022 11:37:28 GMT -6
Then he faced the 'heir apparent' tag which more than likely came from the Org and the press ran with it........McD was still here and he owned the press. Another WHL season would have offered more development and an opportunity to possibly dominate opponents and a season in Rockford coulda really had this kid chompin' at the bit but instead we got a recently concussed 18yro getting HANDED top six minutes,PP time and I believe he's yet to be a healthy scratch. I doubt it was Potter who wanted him in there since he showed he could be skeptical of young players like Jokiharju and Strome......he even demoted D-Cat. My money's on DUMBASS wanting both Boqvist AND Dach in there to showcase his genius. Everything has come easy for Dach at this point and it shows. I know they say Dunks wanted to leave but I guarantee the feeling was mutual and he basically went along. Does he want to leave if you tell him 'we're bringin' in S Jones and we want you to pair with him? I know they're both left shot but is there a better choice for a Jones partner on our roster? Would you rather pay Keith 5M for one more or Murphy 4.4M for four more? Keith @38 still stays healthier and produces more offense and he's made a BIG difference in the culture up in Edmonton! Seth is a right shot, not a left, but most of us wanted someone like Seth to be paired with Keith for a while but no he was paired with similar sized young kids. Duncs is a freak of nature and just needed help back there. And forcing Boqvist to play top2 at his age plus playing Dach at 18 were completely stupid moves that hopefully just stumbled their careers. Boqvist had a great year regarding goals but still misses a lot of games for health reasons. But 10 goals in 11 OHL playoff games is a crazy stat, he can score and he's used properly in Columbus. Now Dach needs to focus and hopefully his big little brother kicks his ass this offseason and they become a great 3rd line pair, maybe put Katchouk on that line. Big boys and Boris has some good hands and work ethic. Kirby was given too much at a young age, one more year in the WHL in Coltons first season and winning a gold with Canada would've been huge for his development but the last gm stole that from him. Now it's time to man up and show why he was drafted at #3. DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR! |
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Post by mvr on May 28, 2022 11:53:50 GMT -6
But of course, all four of your examples here produced far more offence. They had far more success at their primary job. The Hawks finished near the bottom of the league. One of the reasons why was because the powerplay was mediocre. The comparison was to show that a lot of primary team scorers 30%-40% of their points are on the power play, back to your initial context that is where Debrincat scores most of his points. Image if the Hawks had a better team the opposition would have to focus on stopping more than just Debrincat, Kane & Strome which would provide more opportunities for this line and very likely more offense. Not unrealistic to think another 10%-20% offense would put Debrincat right there with all of these minus Draisaitl. Here is the opposing scenario. With better offensive players here to compete with for ice time, Debrincat and Strome would get fewer opportunities to produce in scoring situations. The Hawks power play ranked 22nd in the league last year, converting 19% of opportunities. This is not great, even with Patrick Kane. |
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Post by BigT on May 28, 2022 13:53:38 GMT -6
Seth is a right shot, not a left, but most of us wanted someone like Seth to be paired with Keith for a while but no he was paired with similar sized young kids. Duncs is a freak of nature and just needed help back there. And forcing Boqvist to play top2 at his age plus playing Dach at 18 were completely stupid moves that hopefully just stumbled their careers. Boqvist had a great year regarding goals but still misses a lot of games for health reasons. But 10 goals in 11 OHL playoff games is a crazy stat, he can score and he's used properly in Columbus. Now Dach needs to focus and hopefully his big little brother kicks his ass this offseason and they become a great 3rd line pair, maybe put Katchouk on that line. Big boys and Boris has some good hands and work ethic. Kirby was given too much at a young age, one more year in the WHL in Coltons first season and winning a gold with Canada would've been huge for his development but the last gm stole that from him. Now it's time to man up and show why he was drafted at #3. DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR! I clearly remember having a chat with you about Dobson and the Murican (Swedish) Wahlstrom. I remember chatting about how I’d take Bouchard due to the Hunters saying he’s the smartest kid they’ve ever coached. Next I said Dobson. He was a beast in his draft year and Memorial Cup MVP all at 17/18. Just incredible. Wahlstrom was the forward I wanted. We talked about those 3 a lot. Now, if some dudes on a gawd dam message board know this. How can the Hawks? We knew he was going to take either Hughes or Boqvist. We knew that. The Hawks didn’t have the need for either. Bouchard would look nice now at pick 8, Dobson? Yup, Wahlstrom? Yup. I don’t get how an NHL executive is that fuckin dumb? How do I apply? Let’s just hope the next guy isn’t part of that mold they didn’t break!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 28, 2022 14:16:30 GMT -6
DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR! I clearly remember having a chat with you about Dobson and the Murican (Swedish) Wahlstrom. I remember chatting about how I’d take Bouchard due to the Hunters saying he’s the smartest kid they’ve ever coached. Next I said Dobson. He was a beast in his draft year and Memorial Cup MVP all at 17/18. Just incredible. Wahlstrom was the forward I wanted. We talked about those 3 a lot. Now, if some dudes on a gawd dam message board know this. How can the Hawks? We knew he was going to take either Hughes or Boqvist. We knew that. The Hawks didn’t have the need for either. Bouchard would look nice now at pick 8, Dobson? Yup, Wahlstrom? Yup. I don’t get how an NHL executive is that fuckin dumb? How do I apply? Let’s just hope the next guy isn’t part of that mold they didn’t break!!! I remember being in those discussions as well and those were the 3 we wanted. Bouchard and Dobson were definitely the 2 the Hawks should've taken and Wahlstrom was the top forward. After Boqvist was selected most of us were pissed off and rightfully so, it wasn't as bad when Dach was selected because he wasn't another small player but everyone knew Byram was a top3 pick yet Stan didn't trade down or take the best dman at 3. Trying to keep this about Dach but it keeps going back to the last GM lol hard not to when he really messed up this franchise. Hopefully Kirby comes back bigger, stronger, and more focused next season. |
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Post by Nikos on May 28, 2022 16:06:10 GMT -6
The comparison was to show that a lot of primary team scorers 30%-40% of their points are on the power play, back to your initial context that is where Debrincat scores most of his points. Image if the Hawks had a better team the opposition would have to focus on stopping more than just Debrincat, Kane & Strome which would provide more opportunities for this line and very likely more offense. Not unrealistic to think another 10%-20% offense would put Debrincat right there with all of these minus Draisaitl. Here is the opposing scenario. With better offensive players here to compete with for ice time, Debrincat and Strome would get fewer opportunities to produce in scoring situations. The Hawks power play ranked 22nd in the league last year, converting 19% of opportunities. This is not great, even with Patrick Kane. Even with a better team and offensive players not sure who else you would be out there on the 1st power play unit, not too many can match Debrincat's elite release and shot. Assuming Kane, Strome, Debricant is the 1st line, with better 2nd and 3rd line players the opposition would not key on them as much, plus if you are ahead and the other team is chasing the game it opens up for more scoring opportunities for everyone including the 1st line. Regarding the PP: Seth Jones yes got a lot secondary assists on the power play, but he did not want to shoot for some reason and Hawks power play was very predictable. You are correct with a facilitator like Kane and an elite shooter like Debrincat they should have scored more. I personally put that on the coaches. If Jones is not going to shoot (remember no Dmen scored a power play goal in 82 games, that is unbelievable!) I would look to replace him with one who will force the other team to be honest and honor his shot. That might make the power play a little stronger and more effective. |
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Post by nighbor on May 28, 2022 16:06:49 GMT -6
May 28, 2022 15:53:38 GMT -4 BigT said:
May 28, 2022 13:37:28 GMT -4 hsbob said: DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR!
I clearly remember having a chat with you about Dobson and the Murican (Swedish) Wahlstrom. I remember chatting about how I’d take Bouchard due to the Hunters saying he’s the smartest kid they’ve ever coached. Next I said Dobson. He was a beast in his draft year and Memorial Cup MVP all at 17/18. Just incredible. Wahlstrom was the forward I wanted. We talked about those 3 a lot. Now, if some dudes on a gawd dam message board know this. How can the Hawks? We knew he was going to take either Hughes or Boqvist. We knew that. The Hawks didn’t have the need for either. Bouchard would look nice now at pick 8, Dobson? Yup, Wahlstrom? Yup. I don’t get how an NHL executive is that fuckin dumb? How do I apply? Let’s just hope the next guy isn’t part of that mold they didn’t break!!!
Just a reminder. You wanted Stan to draft Graham Knott and he did. Knott has not played in the NHL. Stan drafted Boqvist because he hoped Boqvist would be the next Erik Karlsson who Tallon could have picked in the 2009 draft but being the smartest man in the room picked Beach. Yes you showed us that you build a team by making the right moves but you failed to mention you also need a shit load of luck. Toews came gift wrapped. He was on every teams radar but the Blue wanted a big hard hitting d-man, Penguins wanted a big center and chose name recognition, leaving the best player in the draft. Winning the Kane lottery and the icing on the cake out negotatiating Detroit and Pittsburg for Hossa. The next cup team will need a lot of the same.
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Post by Nikos on May 28, 2022 16:20:51 GMT -6
Seth is a right shot, not a left, but most of us wanted someone like Seth to be paired with Keith for a while but no he was paired with similar sized young kids. Duncs is a freak of nature and just needed help back there. And forcing Boqvist to play top2 at his age plus playing Dach at 18 were completely stupid moves that hopefully just stumbled their careers. Boqvist had a great year regarding goals but still misses a lot of games for health reasons. But 10 goals in 11 OHL playoff games is a crazy stat, he can score and he's used properly in Columbus. Now Dach needs to focus and hopefully his big little brother kicks his ass this offseason and they become a great 3rd line pair, maybe put Katchouk on that line. Big boys and Boris has some good hands and work ethic. Kirby was given too much at a young age, one more year in the WHL in Coltons first season and winning a gold with Canada would've been huge for his development but the last gm stole that from him. Now it's time to man up and show why he was drafted at #3. DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR! And wait now with his second 1st round pick he takes yes another small defensemen. Folks you be hard pressed to make this up. Even tougher to "stomach" is both Bouchard and Dobson are going to get even better based on how most Dmen reach their prime in mid to late 20's. This type of draft record selecting in the top 10 in both 18 & 19 (top 3 with Dach so far not looking great) and 2 1st rd. picks in 18 has put this franchisee behind the Kracken a 1st year expansion team. |
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Post by BigT on May 28, 2022 17:28:00 GMT -6
May 28, 2022 15:53:38 GMT -4 BigT said:
May 28, 2022 13:37:28 GMT -4 hsbob said: DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR!
I clearly remember having a chat with you about Dobson and the Murican (Swedish) Wahlstrom. I remember chatting about how I’d take Bouchard due to the Hunters saying he’s the smartest kid they’ve ever coached. Next I said Dobson. He was a beast in his draft year and Memorial Cup MVP all at 17/18. Just incredible. Wahlstrom was the forward I wanted. We talked about those 3 a lot. Now, if some dudes on a gawd dam message board know this. How can the Hawks? We knew he was going to take either Hughes or Boqvist. We knew that. The Hawks didn’t have the need for either. Bouchard would look nice now at pick 8, Dobson? Yup, Wahlstrom? Yup. I don’t get how an NHL executive is that fuckin dumb? How do I apply? Let’s just hope the next guy isn’t part of that mold they didn’t break!!!
Just a reminder. You wanted Stan to draft Graham Knott and he did. Knott has not played in the NHL. Stan drafted Boqvist because he hoped Boqvist would be the next Erik Karlsson who Tallon could have picked in the 2009 draft but being the smartest man in the room picked Beach. Yes you showed us that you build a team by making the right moves but you failed to mention you also need a shit load of luck. Toews came gift wrapped. He was on every teams radar but the Blue wanted a big hard hitting d-man, Penguins wanted a big center and chose name recognition, leaving the best player in the draft. Winning the Kane lottery and the icing on the cake out negotatiating Detroit and Pittsburg for Hossa. The next cup team will need a lot of the same.
There’s a massive difference with a 5th round pick and an 8th overall first rounder. Anything 3rd round or later, I say take chances. And teams do. Knott is a bad example yet still an example. So I’ll give you that. My point is. Bob, OTH and myself are still batting much greater than the last guy. And we’re not employed to do this line of work. I’ve stated many times that I have a luxury of talking to certain people within the sport. But I also have season tickets and have seen 1000+ Jr games and can make judgement about young hockey players. I may not be right all the time. But for Christs sakes, I shouldn’t be right more than an idiot employed to do this. All it takes is to watch the game. Maybe try and play it some time!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 28, 2022 17:36:40 GMT -6
There is an expression about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Nobody supports the previous general manager, especially given the dreadful job he did in the post cup era.
But it would be unfair to taint every Bowman acquisition with the same stench of the general manager. Seth Jones did not ask to be traded here. Dach did hold a gun to Bowman's head. These are good players put in bad situations.
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Kirby Dach
May 28, 2022 18:02:53 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 28, 2022 18:02:53 GMT -6
There is an expression about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nobody supports the previous general manager, especially given the dreadful job he did in the post cup era. But it would be unfair to taint every Bowman acquisition with the same stench of the general manager. Seth Jones did not ask to be traded here. Dach did hold a gun to Bowman's head. These are good players put in bad situations. Well, when you really think about it. Jones kinda did ask to be traded here. There were only a few teams he was willing to go to. Terrible move. If he at least waited to sign him. The Hawks may not be on the hook for that albatross contract. Dach did say on multiple outlets that he wanted to be drafted as high a he could be. He wanted #2 or #3. He knew #1 was gone. So be careful what you wish for. Jones is absolutely stuck in a shit situation more than likely the rest of his career. Dach still has time to turn her around. Will he? Only he can do it. But it looks grim as of now!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 28, 2022 18:39:37 GMT -6
Let me rephrase.
Jones was not part of the decision making when Bowman gave away the picks and prospects. It is not his fault.
It is not Dach's fault that Bowman used the third pick to get him. We should not blame the players for the general manager's moves.
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Post by BigT on May 28, 2022 19:55:19 GMT -6
Let me rephrase. Jones was not part of the decision making when Bowman gave away the picks and prospects. It is not his fault. It is not Dach's fault that Bowman used the third pick to get him. We should not blame the players for the general manager's moves. I fully agree here. I’m not blaming them. I’m just merely pointing out that we need a bit more from a 3rd overall. Even a 5th overall, even an 8th overall. Problem in Chicago is that the bar has been lowered so bad that we think 3rd overalls should be a 3rd liner. Or an 8th overall should be a utility dman. Plain and simple. The org has just got to be better!!! |
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Post by nighbor on May 29, 2022 0:51:55 GMT -6
There is an expression about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nobody supports the previous general manager, especially given the dreadful job he did in the post cup era. But it would be unfair to taint every Bowman acquisition with the same stench of the general manager. Seth Jones did not ask to be traded here. Dach did hold a gun to Bowman's head. These are good players put in bad situations. Well, when you really think about it. Jones kinda did ask to be traded here. There were only a few teams he was willing to go to. Terrible move. If he at least waited to sign him. The Hawks may not be on the hook for that albatross contract. Dach did say on multiple outlets that he wanted to be drafted as high a he could be. He wanted #2 or #3. He knew #1 was gone. So be careful what you wish for. Jones is absolutely stuck in a shit situation more than likely the rest of his career. Dach still has time to turn her around. Will he? Only he can do it. But it looks grim as of now!!! I would not be interested in any player who did not believe he should go early in the draft as it shows his confidence in his ability. I am sure Dylan Strome voiced the same sentiment. |
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Post by BigT on May 29, 2022 6:47:26 GMT -6
Well, when you really think about it. Jones kinda did ask to be traded here. There were only a few teams he was willing to go to. Terrible move. If he at least waited to sign him. The Hawks may not be on the hook for that albatross contract. Dach did say on multiple outlets that he wanted to be drafted as high a he could be. He wanted #2 or #3. He knew #1 was gone. So be careful what you wish for. Jones is absolutely stuck in a shit situation more than likely the rest of his career. Dach still has time to turn her around. Will he? Only he can do it. But it looks grim as of now!!! I would not be interested in any player who did not believe he should go early in the draft as it shows his confidence in his ability. I am sure Dylan Strome voiced the same sentiment. You’re correct. I would not argue that. I don’t blame the player. I was just responding to MVRs post and it’s clear what was said!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 29, 2022 8:15:41 GMT -6
The comparison was to show that a lot of primary team scorers 30%-40% of their points are on the power play, back to your initial context that is where Debrincat scores most of his points. Image if the Hawks had a better team the opposition would have to focus on stopping more than just Debrincat, Kane & Strome which would provide more opportunities for this line and very likely more offense. Not unrealistic to think another 10%-20% offense would put Debrincat right there with all of these minus Draisaitl. Here is the opposing scenario. With better offensive players here to compete with for ice time, Debrincat and Strome would get fewer opportunities to produce in scoring situations. The Hawks power play ranked 22nd in the league last year, converting 19% of opportunities. This is not great, even with Patrick Kane. If this is your rational.........would you say the power play needed more D-Cats of fewer D-Cats?LOL! |
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Post by hsbob on May 29, 2022 8:36:11 GMT -6
May 28, 2022 15:53:38 GMT -4 BigT said:
May 28, 2022 13:37:28 GMT -4 hsbob said: DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR!
I clearly remember having a chat with you about Dobson and the Murican (Swedish) Wahlstrom. I remember chatting about how I’d take Bouchard due to the Hunters saying he’s the smartest kid they’ve ever coached. Next I said Dobson. He was a beast in his draft year and Memorial Cup MVP all at 17/18. Just incredible. Wahlstrom was the forward I wanted. We talked about those 3 a lot. Now, if some dudes on a gawd dam message board know this. How can the Hawks? We knew he was going to take either Hughes or Boqvist. We knew that. The Hawks didn’t have the need for either. Bouchard would look nice now at pick 8, Dobson? Yup, Wahlstrom? Yup. I don’t get how an NHL executive is that fuckin dumb? How do I apply? Let’s just hope the next guy isn’t part of that mold they didn’t break!!!
Just a reminder. You wanted Stan to draft Graham Knott and he did. Knott has not played in the NHL. Stan drafted Boqvist because he hoped Boqvist would be the next Erik Karlsson who Tallon could have picked in the 2009 draft but being the smartest man in the room picked Beach. Yes you showed us that you build a team by making the right moves but you failed to mention you also need a shit load of luck. Toews came gift wrapped. He was on every teams radar but the Blue wanted a big hard hitting d-man, Penguins wanted a big center and chose name recognition, leaving the best player in the draft. Winning the Kane lottery and the icing on the cake out negotatiating Detroit and Pittsburg for Hossa. The next cup team will need a lot of the same.
If you're gonna quote me,then make a case for drafting Boqvist over the two bigger D-men....throw in K'Andre Miller while you're at it. He drafted him because he hoped he would be the next Eric Karlsson? He drafted him because he's a DUNBASS and pointing out the few mistakes Talon made doesn't change that. |
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Post by mvr on May 29, 2022 9:18:40 GMT -6
Here is the opposing scenario. With better offensive players here to compete with for ice time, Debrincat and Strome would get fewer opportunities to produce in scoring situations. The Hawks power play ranked 22nd in the league last year, converting 19% of opportunities. This is not great, even with Patrick Kane. If this is your rational.........would you say the power play needed more D-Cats of fewer D-Cats?LOL! A big power winger to dig pucks out of the corners is the real need. Of course, these types are hard to find. |
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Post by BigT on May 29, 2022 9:45:39 GMT -6
If this is your rational.........would you say the power play needed more D-Cats of fewer D-Cats?LOL! A big power winger to dig pucks out of the corners is the real need. Of course, these types are hard to find. I agree they’re hard to find. This is why I advocated for the Hawks to draft Serron Noel. 6’5” 210. Has decent skill and skating. He will take a wee bit longer to develop. But someone will give him a chance. I don’t see why Florida won’t. They’ll need cap space soon. Might as well give the kid a shot. I know I would. But we got Beaudin!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 29, 2022 10:41:17 GMT -6
DUMBASS took Boqvist #8 over Bouchard #10,12/43 this year and Dobson #12, 13/51 this year,both big boys...............THE HORROR! And wait now with his second 1st round pick he takes yes another small defensemen. Folks you be hard pressed to make this up. Even tougher to "stomach" is both Bouchard and Dobson are going to get even better based on how most Dmen reach their prime in mid to late 20's. This type of draft record selecting in the top 10 in both 18 & 19 (top 3 with Dach so far not looking great) and 2 1st rd. picks in 18 has put this franchisee behind the Kracken a 1st year expansion team. After picking a D-man who tipped the scales @172lbs at the time @#8 he doubled down with Beaudin who tipped em @168lbs #27........ While Beaudin and his reported poor attitude saw ONE postseason game for Rockford,these kids taken after him are developing nicely..... Nils Lundkvist #28 NYR Rasmus Sandin #29 Tor Joe Valeno #30 Det Mattias Samuelsson #32 Buf Edmonton took the 6'2" 200lb+ Ryan McLeod #40 and he's played em all so far this postseason as a bottom six center. Toronto took Sean Durzi @#52 who looked real good with Doughty out for LA against a real good Oil team but the Leafs being the Leafs traded him for Muzzin,the Leafs also threw in Grunderstrom who had 3gls/4pts in 6 PO games for LA and a first round pick,Tobias Bjornfort 21yro,6' 200lb D-man who already has 100+ NHL starts. Some teams are their own worst enemies. When DUMBASS traded up in the 3rd round that year to pick a kid who looked like a little girl.......I almost shit myself.......SAD CIRCUMSTANCES!!! |
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