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Post by OldTimeHawky on Feb 21, 2022 10:56:36 GMT -6
I tried to ya'll... lol. he got spoiled in a big way by the previous regime. I'm sure that didn't help his mentality... should've left him in juniors another year... Yep, definitely rushed. He probably wasn't mentally mature enough to handle the pressure at 19. Or 18. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 23, 2022 16:10:04 GMT -6
come on kirby. you're sounding a bit "pissy" here.
i assume it was a recent quote, but i thought he'd severed all his social media ties.
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Post by BigT on Feb 23, 2022 16:24:23 GMT -6
come on kirby. you're sounding a bit "pissy" here. i assume it was a recent quote, but i thought he'd severed all his social media ties. I agree. This is not what I’d like to hear from this kid. Everything I heard about him, he sounded like a really well rounded kid. But money and fame can change a lot of things!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Feb 23, 2022 16:44:44 GMT -6
come on kirby. you're sounding a bit "pissy" here. i assume it was a recent quote, but i thought he'd severed all his social media ties. I agree. This is not what I’d like to hear from this kid. Everything I heard about him, he sounded like a really well rounded kid. But money and fame can change a lot of things!!! another example of what you get when you don't handle your prospects correctly... this kid obviously has issues now, likely from too much pressure being applied wayyyy too soon... |
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Post by BigT on Feb 23, 2022 17:47:48 GMT -6
I agree. This is not what I’d like to hear from this kid. Everything I heard about him, he sounded like a really well rounded kid. But money and fame can change a lot of things!!! another example of what you get when you don't handle your prospects correctly... this kid obviously has issues now, likely from too much pressure being applied wayyyy too soon... If he was winning faceoffs and winning board battles etc. He’d have a solid point. I just hope he doesn’t keep heading down this shitty path we’re hearing about. Cuz not only does is hurt the roster, it doesn’t help his trade value!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Feb 23, 2022 20:53:12 GMT -6
come on kirby. you're sounding a bit "pissy" here. i assume it was a recent quote, but i thought he'd severed all his social media ties. I'd like to see the entire context of this quote. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 23, 2022 21:20:18 GMT -6
come on kirby. you're sounding a bit "pissy" here. i assume it was a recent quote, but i thought he'd severed all his social media ties. I'd like to see the entire context of this quote. me too. should mention that the guy who posted the tweet (james iacovone) is the host of a flyer's podcast. kind of strange none of the hawks pundits have mentioned it. i'm thinking he might have said this when he announced he was quitting social media. but i'm not sure. ok...never mind. it is a new tweet from an old quote from dach going back to jan. 30th....when he quit the social media scene. clickbait? |
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Post by BigT on Feb 24, 2022 10:43:34 GMT -6
Even if Dach said that two months ago, it’s still not good to hear that from him. Especially when his coach has come out and said a lot of things not really in his favour. He needs the year to end fast. Maybe he can use the off season to clear his head and get into shape and worry about his next contract!!!
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Post by steamer on Feb 24, 2022 10:57:18 GMT -6
Even if Dach said that two months ago, it’s still not good to hear that from him. Especially when his coach has come out and said a lot of things not really in his favour. He needs the year to end fast. Maybe he can use the off season to clear his head and get into shape and worry about his next contract!!! Yeah this kid needs some guidance or he could go off the rails. |
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Post by hsbob on Feb 24, 2022 11:55:49 GMT -6
I understand if Kirby Dach is frustrated and 21yros rarely express it well,I put his struggles more on the Org's inability to assess and develop properly than anything else. I know..........let's hire the basketball Lady! TF!
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Post by nighbor on May 25, 2022 12:57:24 GMT -6
There is so much negative talk here about Kirby and pumping the tires of others. Two young players have been linked to a possibly trade for Kane, Lafreniere and Kakko.
Lafreniere....135--31-21--52 Playoffs 11--2-3--5
Kakko............159--26-32--58 14--1-1--2
Dach..............152--19-40--59 9--1-5--6
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 18:30:35 GMT -6
There is so much negative talk here about Kirby and pumping the tires of others. Two young players have been linked to a possibly trade for Kane, Lafreniere and Kakko. Lafreniere....135--31-21--52 Playoffs 11--2-3--5 Kakko............159--26-32--58 14--1-1--2 Dach..............152--19-40--59 9--1-5--6 The play in round does not count as playoffs. The Hawks got decimated by the Vegans. Lafreniere is looking like a good young player now. I agree he struggled. But let’s be honest, the kid has dominated at every level and I have to think he will again. Problem is, NYR have a lot of guys in front of him. And he mostly plays 3rd line minutes. Whereas Dach played top line minutes for quite some time. I’d be happier if Dach played 3/4 line minutes and earned his way!!! |
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Post by nighbor on May 26, 2022 3:51:11 GMT -6
There is so much negative talk here about Kirby and pumping the tires of others. Two young players have been linked to a possibly trade for Kane, Lafreniere and Kakko. Lafreniere....135--31-21--52 Playoffs 11--2-3--5 Kakko............159--26-32--58 14--1-1--2 Dach..............152--19-40--59 9--1-5--6 The play in round does not count as playoffs. The Hawks got decimated by the Vegans. Lafreniere is looking like a good young player now. I agree he struggled. But let’s be honest, the kid has dominated at every level and I have to think he will again. Problem is, NYR have a lot of guys in front of him. And he mostly plays 3rd line minutes. Whereas Dach played top line minutes for quite some time. I’d be happier if Dach played 3/4 line minutes and earned his way!!! According to the sites I go to including capfriendly they count the points as being playoff points. Fansided also had an article linking Eddie O and Dach who had a 3 game point streak (0-4) to start the playoffs. According to another article dated Feb. 6, 2020 Dach just started getting top 6 minutes which if correct and I have no reason to doubt their reporting means Dach started his career getting bottom six minutes not top line minutes. |
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Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 6:59:58 GMT -6
The play in round does not count as playoffs. The Hawks got decimated by the Vegans. Lafreniere is looking like a good young player now. I agree he struggled. But let’s be honest, the kid has dominated at every level and I have to think he will again. Problem is, NYR have a lot of guys in front of him. And he mostly plays 3rd line minutes. Whereas Dach played top line minutes for quite some time. I’d be happier if Dach played 3/4 line minutes and earned his way!!! According to the sites I go to including capfriendly they count the points as being playoff points. Fansided also had an article linking Eddie O and Dach who had a 3 game point streak (0-4) to start the playoffs. According to another article dated Feb. 6, 2020 Dach just started getting top 6 minutes which if correct and I have no reason to doubt their reporting means Dach started his career getting bottom six minutes not top line minutes. There’s been one play in round in the history of the NHL. One. It was not real playoffs. Hawks got to play another bottom feeder. Worst always plays first. Hawks played the Oilers which at that time a bubble playoff team. So it doesn’t matter what anyone says. It wasn’t real playoffs!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 26, 2022 8:03:18 GMT -6
According to the sites I go to including capfriendly they count the points as being playoff points. Fansided also had an article linking Eddie O and Dach who had a 3 game point streak (0-4) to start the playoffs. According to another article dated Feb. 6, 2020 Dach just started getting top 6 minutes which if correct and I have no reason to doubt their reporting means Dach started his career getting bottom six minutes not top line minutes. There’s been one play in round in the history of the NHL. One. It was not real playoffs. Hawks got to play another bottom feeder. Worst always plays first. Hawks played the Oilers which at that time a bubble playoff team. So it doesn’t matter what anyone says. It wasn’t real playoffs!!! Yeah I don't count the Oilers series as playoff hockey, Vegas showed them what playoff hockey was and if it wasn't for an amazing game by Crow they would've been swept. It was nice beating Edmonton but I would've rather had a higher pick. But if the Rangers want Kane and Lafreniere is part of the package I'd be happy with that, huge bonus if Kakko is added but even Lundkvist the small right handed Swedish dman would be a good pick up. He's 5'10" but 187lbs, solid kid. He could run the PP. As for Dach, maybe the pressure of being touted as a franchise player and tossed in the NHL at 18 was too much, plus injures didn't help. I have a feeling having his brother around and probably playing in the NHL next season with be the boost he needs. Put Lafreniere on their line. |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 26, 2022 8:12:49 GMT -6
Dach still on the team? I had forgotten all about him. Not that it isn't hard to forget him.
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 8:22:52 GMT -6
I believe we need as many high-end prospects as we can fetch and if Kane can get us Lafreniere and Kakko and anything i.e., picks or another prospect most likely need to pull the trigger provided Kane is ok with moving on.
It is no secret the Hawks lack high end prospects and the more you have better chance to have success. I do agree that Lafreniere has not been asked to carry the offensive load right now for the Rangers, but surely you can see his talent, the hockey IQ and how he competes on the ice. It is those qualities that get you excited and projecting him on the team.
Now Dach has some of those same qualities too and we all hoping he can put it all together.
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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 8:42:03 GMT -6
There is so much negative talk here about Kirby and pumping the tires of others. Two young players have been linked to a possibly trade for Kane, Lafreniere and Kakko. Lafreniere....135--31-21--52 Playoffs 11--2-3--5 Kakko............159--26-32--58 14--1-1--2 Dach..............152--19-40--59 9--1-5--6 Dach was never projected to be a big scorer. The hope was that he might turn into a two-way Kesler/Getzlaf type who could dominate the middle of the ice. I would like to see him get stronger on the puck and more physical. But he is only 21, and there is still much growing to do. He already shows an above average defensive awareness, which is encouraging considering his age. He states well, and he has obvious skill. He still needs to learn how to take a faceoff, but improvement will come as he learns technique and foot work. Players like Kesler/Getzlaf tend to be underrated because they don't make the highlight plays or pad the score sheets. But these types help teams win games, especially in the tight checking playoff environments. I would take the potential of a Dach over a Kakko/Lafreniere every day. |
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 10:29:24 GMT -6
There is so much negative talk here about Kirby and pumping the tires of others. Two young players have been linked to a possibly trade for Kane, Lafreniere and Kakko. Lafreniere....135--31-21--52 Playoffs 11--2-3--5 Kakko............159--26-32--58 14--1-1--2 Dach..............152--19-40--59 9--1-5--6 Dach was never projected to be a big scorer. The hope was that he might turn into a two-way Kesler/Getzlaf type who could dominate the middle of the ice. I would like to see him get stronger on the puck and more physical. But he is only 21, and there is still much growing to do. He already shows an above average defensive awareness, which is encouraging considering his age. He states well, and he has obvious skill. He still needs to learn how to take a faceoff, but improvement will come as he learns technique and foot work. Players like Kesler/Getzlaf tend to be underrated because they don't make the highlight plays or pad the score sheets. But these types help teams win games, especially in the tight checking playoff environments. I would take the potential of a Dach over a Kakko/Lafreniere every day. The kid deserves another year,possibly two to show progress but that progress will have to be shown at some point........excuses don't work for #3's over-all. I'll agree that he's above average as far as defensive instincts and responsibilities but he's below average offensively and what makes you believe his FO's which have gotten worse suddenly improve? They'll have to make a BIG improvement too because 32% is awfully disappointing after a full/healthy camp in his 3rd year. Getzlaf and Kesler were point getters in their prime,Kessler had a few 70pt seasons and Getzlaf had a few 70pt seasons and a few @80 and 90 point season as well.....both won FO's! Are these your expectations for the 3rd over-all? He has to have expectations at some point. I'd be THRILLED with 20gls/50pts and a FO% north of 40 myself. |
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Kirby Dach
May 26, 2022 10:37:58 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 10:37:58 GMT -6
Here’s an old scouting report on Dach. thehockeywriters.com/kirby-dach-2019-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/At the end it says that he’s comparable to Ryan Johansen. I think that’s more of a fair assessment. Ryan Getzlaf is a future hall of famer. 1000 point guy, Cup winner, gold medal at Olympics and WJC. So I think looking to Johansen is a much better comparison!!! |
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 10:57:09 GMT -6
Here’s an old scouting report on Dach. thehockeywriters.com/kirby-dach-2019-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/At the end it says that he’s comparable to Ryan Johansen. I think that’s more of a fair assessment. Ryan Getzlaf is a future hall of famer. 1000 point guy, Cup winner, gold medal at Olympics and WJC. So I think looking to Johansen is a much better comparison!!! I will take Ryan Johansen, career 53% FO 26 goals and 63 points last year and 54 playoff points in 67 games. He really turned his game up during year 3 & 4 with Columbus, more of a playmaker with pass first mentality, similar to what they say about Dach. Agree with hsbob we need to see improvement this will be year 4 for him. |
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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 11:29:48 GMT -6
It will be year four for Dach, but by any fair measure it is equivalent to year three (considering the injuries and COVID). Most players are not in the NHL at 18 either.
Getzlaf took time to learn the league. So did most of the others. Instead of measuring success by years of service, a better approach might be to use his actual age as the measuring stick.
Big centres tend to take longer to reach full potential. My hope for Dach is that he gets to 60-65 points/season by the time he is 25 years old. This is a realistic goal. It is essential for him to improve his face-off and physical game if he is to become the team's primary two-way centre. My guess is that this also will happen.
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Post by Nikos on May 26, 2022 11:48:29 GMT -6
It will be year four for Dach, but by any fair measure it is equivalent to year three (considering the injuries and COVID). Most players are not in the NHL at 18 either. Getzlaf took time to learn the league. So did most of the others. Instead of measuring success by years of service, a better approach might be to use his actual age as the measuring stick. Big centres tend to take longer to reach full potential. My hope for Dach is that he gets to 60-65 points/season by the time he is 25 years old. This is a realistic goal. It is essential for him to improve his face-off and physical game if he is to become the team's primary two-way centre. My guess is that this also will happen. I think most here are willing give him the benefit being rushed and the injury situation, we just need to see improvement and flashes of what he will be doing at 25 years old. |
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 11:56:59 GMT -6
It will be year four for Dach, but by any fair measure it is equivalent to year three (considering the injuries and COVID). Most players are not in the NHL at 18 either. Getzlaf took time to learn the league. So did most of the others. Instead of measuring success by years of service, a better approach might be to use his actual age as the measuring stick. Big centres tend to take longer to reach full potential. My hope for Dach is that he gets to 60-65 points/season by the time he is 25 years old. This is a realistic goal. It is essential for him to improve his face-off and physical game if he is to become the team's primary two-way centre. My guess is that this also will happen. Since when do team's wait for their 6'4" 200lb #3 over-all to reach the age of 25 to produce? Twenty years ago maybe. He still could prove me wrong but a number of players taken after him have been much better so far. Let's be fair and consider his 152 games played as two full seasons with a few games missed........19 goals? 34.6FO%? Eighteen or not.....he had the size of a mature player. Injuries did impact his development.....I was told a healthy year and a full camp would make a difference this year........9gls 32.8FO% in 70 games.......not a difference at all. What do we have the right to fairly expect until he reaches 25? You so easily dismiss the elite play a small-framed, 2nd round pick has exhibited from the get go as a teenager and find a way to coddle a large framed #3 over-all's disappointing play.....why? |
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Post by bigbarn27 on May 26, 2022 12:00:04 GMT -6
I believe we need as many high-end prospects as we can fetch and if Kane can get us Lafreniere and Kakko and anything i.e., picks or another prospect most likely need to pull the trigger provided Kane is ok with moving on. It is no secret the Hawks lack high end prospects and the more you have better chance to have success. I do agree that Lafreniere has not been asked to carry the offensive load right now for the Rangers, but surely you can see his talent, the hockey IQ and how he competes on the ice. It is those qualities that get you excited and projecting him on the team. Now Dach has some of those same qualities too and we all hoping he can put it all together. Lafreniere was given many opportunities on the first and second line and it did not work out very well that’s why they traded for Copp. At the end of the day he is not much different then Dach as far as production and he is on the wing. Kakko is close to getting benched and is starting to get 4 th line min. |
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Kirby Dach
May 26, 2022 12:03:16 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 12:03:16 GMT -6
It will be year four for Dach, but by any fair measure it is equivalent to year three (considering the injuries and COVID). Most players are not in the NHL at 18 either. Getzlaf took time to learn the league. So did most of the others. Instead of measuring success by years of service, a better approach might be to use his actual age as the measuring stick. Big centres tend to take longer to reach full potential. My hope for Dach is that he gets to 60-65 points/season by the time he is 25 years old. This is a realistic goal. It is essential for him to improve his face-off and physical game if he is to become the team's primary two-way centre. My guess is that this also will happen. I think most here are willing give him the benefit being rushed and the injury situation, we just need to see improvement and flashes of what he will be doing at 25 years old. I agree. I think he declined this year. Again. During this rebuild, I’m willing to give him a few more years. Well, because there’s nothing but time here. If he can become a bigger RNH and dominate physically. I’d be ok with that too. Basically a big 3rd line center. If that’s his ceiling, I’m ok with it. Just stop playing him in a top role. There’s nothing good in having him struggle. With that said. Now the focus should be on finding a #1 and #2 center. With all the draft picks the Hawks can have. I don’t see that as a problem for very long. So now I’m saying Dachs ceiling is a 3rd line center. Anything more will be fantastic. He’s our future 3rd liner. I guess what I’m saying is under promise and over deliver!!! |
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Post by bigbarn27 on May 26, 2022 12:08:39 GMT -6
As far as just Dach I said I would wait til he played a full year . Well that did not work out very well yes I want a shit ton more out of him but there is no need to panic and trade him. I love what he does defensively 2 nd in takeaways I believe and he is great at disrupting passes in neutral zone. Offensively I need a ton more a good stable coach would help but this on him now I know he is still just a kid but time to man up !!!
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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 13:01:09 GMT -6
Dach will never be a first line scoring centre like Trevor Zegras or Jack Hughes.
But to my mind, it does not matter. That's not why Dach is here.
If Dach develops properly, he will provide the team with something much more valuable - a true power centre who controls the game at both ends in all situations.
He is learning under one of the best ever in Jonathan Toews. Hopefully he pays attention.
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Kirby Dach
May 26, 2022 13:14:56 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on May 26, 2022 13:14:56 GMT -6
Dach will never be a first line scoring centre like Trevor Zegras or Jack Hughes. But to my mind, it does not matter. That's not why Dach is here. If Dach develops properly, he will provide the team with something much more valuable - a true power centre who controls the game at both ends in all situations. He is learning under one of the best ever in Jonathan Toews. Hopefully he pays attention. I think it’s best at this point to look at him as a 3rd line center. He is atrocious at faceoffs. And doesn’t do much offensively. Yes that can change. But for now, he regressed this past season. Not very encouraging. So I highly doubt he’s gonna control both ends of the ice. Don’t think it’s too much to expect 20 goals and 25 assists outta the guy at this point. This past year was the highest scoring year in 25 years. Yet he struggled. I don’t think the Hawks or any team wait till he’s 25. I think he’ll be traded as a reclamation project. Remember, you thought a year ago that we had all we needed with Zadorov. And he was a bust here. Same with Jones. Dach just hasn’t produced. He still has time. But not that much left here!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 26, 2022 13:41:53 GMT -6
It will be year four for Dach, but by any fair measure it is equivalent to year three (considering the injuries and COVID). Most players are not in the NHL at 18 either. Getzlaf took time to learn the league. So did most of the others. Instead of measuring success by years of service, a better approach might be to use his actual age as the measuring stick. Big centres tend to take longer to reach full potential. My hope for Dach is that he gets to 60-65 points/season by the time he is 25 years old. This is a realistic goal. It is essential for him to improve his face-off and physical game if he is to become the team's primary two-way centre. My guess is that this also will happen. Since when do team's wait for their 6'4" 200lb #3 over-all to reach the age of 25 to produce? Twenty years ago maybe. He still could prove me wrong but a number of players taken after him have been much better so far. Let's be fair and consider his 152 games played as two full seasons with a few games missed........19 goals? 34.6FO%? Eighteen or not.....he had the size of a mature player. Injuries did impact his development.....I was told a healthy year and a full camp would make a difference this year........9gls 32.8FO% in 70 games.......not a difference at all. What do we have the right to fairly expect until he reaches 25? You so easily dismiss the elite play a small-framed, 2nd round pick has exhibited from the get go as a teenager and find a way to coddle a large framed #3 over-all's disappointing play.....why? I do not "dismiss" Debrincat's "elite" play. I recognize that most small-framed scoring wingers peak at around his age (23-25 years old) and start to decline at around age 30. Bowman's staff did very well to find him in the second round. Debrincat has exceeded just about everyone's expectations. Nevertheless, he likely is what he is at this stage - an elite shooter and second-tier all star who is about to cash in. Debrincat produces just under a point a game, playing first line minutes in all scoring situations with Hall of Famer Patrick Kane . He generates more than 40% of his points either on the powerplay (three-and-a-half minutes a game on average) or during three-on-three overtime (four goals) when there are fewer defenders to deal with. The Strome line's plus/minus during five-on-five play was dreadful this year. These are not the kinds of numbers that tend to translate well to tight-checking physical playoff hockey. I do not want the Hawks to commit a long term big money NMC to a winger during the early stages of a rebuild. He provides more value as a trade chip. Dach's present play (and production numbers) pretty much fits the pattern of what we should expect for this type of player. Like Quinton Byfield (drafted 2nd) and most other big centres, he will take years to fulfill his potential. His likely peak is 26-30 years old. I am not disappointed in his present production at all. The centre's role, like the defenceman's, is much more difficult than the scoring winger's. There are way more checking responsibilities at both ends of the ice. Dach is doing a good job already in handling most of the opposing team's stars. Dach is not paid much now and won't be for many years. The Hawks do not have to make a decision on him for awhile. We can choose to "coddle" him. Unfortunately, Debrincat is one year from payday. He will never be worth more in a trade than right now. |
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