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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 26, 2022 16:56:33 GMT -6
kane basically saying "i'll stick around if you keep the cat". a whole lot of things have to go right for the hawks to match the speed of the kings' rebuild. not impossible i suppose but improbable i reckon. anyways, all in all i liked what kane had to say in that article. |
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Post by vadarx on Apr 26, 2022 17:09:36 GMT -6
kane basically saying "i'll stick around if you keep the cat". a whole lot of things have to go right for the hawks to match the speed of the kings' rebuild. not impossible i suppose but improbable i reckon. anyways, all in all i liked what kane had to say in that article. liked how? tbh, I didn't care for it at all, myself... ...but I would bet good money that I am the least biggest fan of Patrick Kane on this board, so, take anything I might say about 88 around here with that grain in hand... |
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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 26, 2022 17:40:04 GMT -6
kane basically saying "i'll stick around if you keep the cat". a whole lot of things have to go right for the hawks to match the speed of the kings' rebuild. not impossible i suppose but improbable i reckon. anyways, all in all i liked what kane had to say in that article. liked how? tbh, I didn't care for it at all, myself... ...but I would bet good money that I am the least biggest fan of Patrick Kane on this board, so, take anything I might say about 88 around here with that grain in hand... i liked what he said about his health issues maybe being not so serious and just the impression he gave that he can improve next year. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 26, 2022 19:37:11 GMT -6
I am also a big Kaner fan, the Kings are year 4 of rebuild and they have much better prospect pool than the Hawks and younger talent on the roster and probably need 1-2 more years to be a legit challenger. Even if things go your way you still in the 5–7-year rebuild window which puts him close to 40 if he is still playing. Now if they get lucky and land Bedard next year maybe then it is 3-5 years. I think it is great that he wants to be a leader and try to get to another level after this summer, but we need to be realistic this team is years away from winning. This was the problem with Bowman he tried to rebuild on the fly, and it set the team back where the expansion Kracken are ahead of them right now with draft assets, another lottery pick coming this year and Matty Beniers #2 overall from 2021 who looks like a stud.
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Post by vadarx on Apr 26, 2022 20:40:12 GMT -6
liked how? tbh, I didn't care for it at all, myself... ...but I would bet good money that I am the least biggest fan of Patrick Kane on this board, so, take anything I might say about 88 around here with that grain in hand... i liked what he said about his health issues maybe being not so serious and just the impression he gave that he can improve next year. I gotcha. |
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Post by vadarx on Apr 26, 2022 20:42:14 GMT -6
I am also a big Kaner fan, the Kings are year 4 of rebuild and they have much better prospect pool than the Hawks and younger talent on the roster and probably need 1-2 more years to be a legit challenger. Even if things go your way you still in the 5–7-year rebuild window which puts him close to 40 if he is still playing. Now if they get lucky and land Bedard next year maybe then it is 3-5 years. I think it is great that he wants to be a leader and try to get to another level after this summer, but we need to be realistic this team is years away from winning. This was the problem with Bowman he tried to rebuild on the fly, and it set the team back where the expansion Kracken are ahead of them right now with draft assets, another lottery pick coming this year and Matty Beniers #2 overall from 2021 who looks like a stud. +1 for the Matty B reference. that young man is kicking ass right outta the gate for Seattle. love seeing it! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 27, 2022 9:05:32 GMT -6
Great appreciation and respect for Patrick Kane's feelings and his willingness to share em! I'll also selfishly enjoy the entertainment he/Cat and Strome provide while watching Hawk games if all three remain....Strome is another player the FO has a big decision with.
I realize this entertainment will come with a price though,these three could easily put up career numbers if left together for a full season which would almost assure a pick NOT in the bottom half dozen or so. Kane thinks the rebuild can go quicker and he knows the team's situation a hell of a lot better than I do BUT I believe a quicker rebuild would require one of the young D-men being a worthy top-pair partner for Jones and Kirby Dach having a breakthrough along with Reichel being the real deal.
I believe a FULL/HONEST rebuild might require moving all three of Kane,Cat and Strome along with JT and putting out feelers on Jones as well........how many,if any of these things happen?
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Post by BigT on Apr 28, 2022 14:07:34 GMT -6
Great appreciation and respect for Patrick Kane's feelings and his willingness to share em! I'll also selfishly enjoy the entertainment he/Cat and Strome provide while watching Hawk games if all three remain....Strome is another player the FO has a big decision with. I realize this entertainment will come with a price though,these three could easily put up career numbers if left together for a full season which would almost assure a pick NOT in the bottom half dozen or so. Kane thinks the rebuild can go quicker and he knows the team's situation a hell of a lot better than I do BUT I believe a quicker rebuild would require one of the young D-men being a worthy top-pair partner for Jones and Kirby Dach having a breakthrough along with Reichel being the real deal. I believe a FULL/HONEST rebuild might require moving all three of Kane,Cat and Strome along with JT and putting out feelers on Jones as well........how many,if any of these things happen? Good post. I don’t know what will happen either. I respect that you admit seeing them together comes at a cost. It’s always tough to let go. We see this all the time. I don’t want to see it end. But for me, it ended around 2017. I knew there was no correct path back. That was the time to do a rebuild and a quick one. Two years at the bottom and rise back up. Trade off all loose ends, create cap space and we’d be seeing a different thing. I don’t see how it works out for Toews and Kane. Both teams Kane mentioned took 2-4 years to do. Even in 2 years time, Kane will be almost 37. He more than likely won’t be relied upon by then. And if this quick rebuild happens, he’d have to take a massive hometown discount. Like for 4 million. And is Toews even gonna be playing in 2 years time? I would love for it to work out. But t maybe part of the rebuild it both Toews and Kane agreeing to leave at the TDL and coming back afterwards? Maybe keep Dcat, Strome etc, then sign those to as UFAs. I’d also be all for that. There’s always tricky ways around things. And maybe the Duo gets the taste of winning again in a long playoff run? This may be the best case scenario. In this scenario, the Hawks would get some much needed assets. It’s certainly a path of interest!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 28, 2022 17:25:45 GMT -6
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Post by 2old4this on May 29, 2022 7:39:13 GMT -6
Don't worry....Kaner will play into his 40's. Don't mind seeing him as a rental player with a contender, as long as he re-signs with the Hawks.
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 28, 2023 19:46:37 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 21:49:41 GMT -6
^yah, so thankful, he decided to hold the team hostage to ensure they got back a garbage return in a trade... a$$hole
legacy forever tarnished
i hope he doesn't return, don't want him sitting atop the leaderboard for franchise goals, assists or points and i hope he fails in his quest for another cup
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Post by phill9 on Feb 28, 2023 22:38:14 GMT -6
Screw kane
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 28, 2023 23:59:39 GMT -6
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Post by phill9 on Mar 1, 2023 0:03:31 GMT -6
He's gone... please lock this thread. Who cares when he plays
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Post by 2old4this on Mar 1, 2023 1:21:16 GMT -6
I am also a big Kaner fan, the Kings are year 4 of rebuild and they have much better prospect pool than the Hawks and younger talent on the roster and probably need 1-2 more years to be a legit challenger. Even if things go your way you still in the 5–7-year rebuild window which puts him close to 40 if he is still playing. Now if they get lucky and land Bedard next year maybe then it is 3-5 years. I think it is great that he wants to be a leader and try to get to another level after this summer, but we need to be realistic this team is years away from winning. This was the problem with Bowman he tried to rebuild on the fly, and it set the team back where the expansion Kracken are ahead of them right now with draft assets, another lottery pick coming this year and Matty Beniers #2 overall from 2021 who looks like a stud. Scotty Bowman managed to rebuild the Dead Wings on the fly for years and years. And of course, we all see what happened when Stan Bowman tried to do the same with the Hawks. I believe Scotty did it by trading one or two top players each year or two for high draft picks. A healthy farm system and good development are key. Two areas that were lacking under Stan. |
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Post by 2old4this on Mar 1, 2023 1:32:12 GMT -6
Are you aware that you and fdavidson are sharing the same body and the same brain? |
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Post by vadarx on Mar 1, 2023 2:39:14 GMT -6
here's an article from the Athletic on the big trade:
What is Patrick Kane worth in a trade?
That’s a tricky question. Are we talking about an open market of 31 teams? Is this the offseason, early in the season or at the trade deadline? Is Kane fully healthy? Is he just a rental or could he re-sign somewhere?
No doubt, Kane should be worth a decent haul, with the exact value varying based on those variables. Even with doubts cast on him due to his nagging hip injury this season, he showed he can still elevate his game to an elite level. In his last four games in a Blackhawks jersey, he scored seven goals and added three assists. He’s still that guy. He’s still worth a lot.
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The Blackhawks sure thought so. They believed Kane should bring back a first-round draft pick and a top prospect if he were to waive his no-movement clause — at the very least.
So how did it come to this? How did Blackhawks general manager Kyle Davidson get just a conditional second-round pick in 2023 — which could become a 2024 or 2025 first-rounder only if the Rangers make it to the conference final in the ludicrously loaded Eastern Conference — and a 2023 fourth-rounder for arguably the greatest player in franchise history, one who’s less than a year removed from a 92-point season? And how was that actually better than most of the hockey world expected?
Well, trades are based on leverage. And the Blackhawks had none.
“It is what it is,” said a Western Conference executive, granted anonymity so he could speak freely about another team. “They got something, which is more than what they’re getting from (Jonathan) Toews’ expiring contract. You’ve got to make the best of what you’re given. He gave them one team to work with.”
The Blackhawks probably could have gotten the package they wanted if two things had occurred. One, Kane needed to give the Blackhawks at least a few weeks to negotiate with teams. Trade season started far earlier than usual this year, with Bo Horvat, one of the biggest names available, going to the Islanders way back on Jan. 30. Two, Kane needed to give the Blackhawks a few destinations to which he’d be willing to go.
The Blackhawks believed that both of those things could happen at the beginning of February. Based on what Kane and his agent, Pat Brisson, were saying, the Blackhawks remained optimistic.
But then time passed.
And passed.
And passed.
While Kane pondered his decision, other teams weren’t waiting. Big names kept coming off the board. Most notably, the New York Rangers acquired Vladimir Tarasenko for the sort of package — which included a first-round pick — the Blackhawks were hoping for. That was always Kane’s No. 1 destination. It was a market relatively close to his parents in Western New York, it would reunite him with former linemate Artemi Panarin (who helped him win the 2016 Hart Trophy as league MVP), and it would give him another shot at the Stanley Cup playoffs.
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Kane’s surprisingly honest reaction to the Tarasenko trade, which seemed to rule out the Rangers as a potential destination for Kane, changed the dynamic. Kane said he was “not, like, the happiest” to hear about the trade, and flat-out admitted he was “intrigued” by the idea of playing for the Rangers. And Rangers GM Chris Drury surely saw that. There were other teams interested in Kane — such as Dallas, Carolina, Vegas and Edmonton — but it became clear that Kane only had eyes for New York. And the Rangers knew it.
Further destroying any leverage Davidson might have had, Kane’s disappointment was not accompanied by a decision. And so more time passed. And more players around the league were traded for first-rounders.
Not that anyone will ever say it publicly, but there was growing frustration within the Blackhawks organization over Kane’s dithering. Just as significantly, the sense around the league from other suitors was that Kane was just as frustrated, if not outright furious, that the Blackhawks were all but forcing him out the door by going scorched-earth on the roster in a blatant tank. Davidson traded away Alex DeBrincat and let Dylan Strome leave as a free agent over the summer. Those were Kane’s linemates and closest friends on the team, and Kane took it personally, making him less inclined to help the Blackhawks maximize his trade value. He wanted the Rangers. And he was determined to get the Rangers.
So as the deadline got closer, Kane wanted to see if the Rangers were still a possibility. They were indeed interested, but they weren’t going to give up much, as they did in the Tarasenko trade. Especially with no competition.
While Brisson and the Rangers were having conversations, the Blackhawks still weren’t sure what was going to happen. They were preparing for anything and everything. They knew time was running out to make the sort of deal they hoped for.
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It wasn’t until Kane rang Davidson on Friday night that the organization knew for sure what Kane truly wanted: He would waive his no-movement clause to be traded to the Rangers. And only the Rangers.
“It did culminate in San Jose right before we moved on from that game,” Davidson said. “Yeah, a couple emotional conversations down in San Jose. That’s kind of where everything came to a head.”
Davidson went to work with Drury. Davidson set his price, but Drury offered less in return and wouldn’t budge much. Drury had the leverage and knew it. He knew the Rangers were the only team Kane would accept a trade to. He also knew the Blackhawks were going to do whatever they could to make that happen for Kane. From Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz to president of business operations Jaime Faulkner to Davidson, the Blackhawks had been publicly stating for some time that they were going to do right by Kane and Toews if they wanted to be traded.
That left Davidson with minimal bargaining power. He couldn’t walk away from the trade, even if he wanted to. It was an organizational mandate not to hold onto Kane against his wishes. Once Kane said aloud he wanted the trade, Davidson was going to follow through. That relationship — past, present and future — is too important to the organization.
So, Davidson fought for what he could. The fact that Davidson got the conditional second-round pick is probably a victory for the Blackhawks, considering Drury could have offered much less, and Davidson probably would have had to accept.
Ultimately, Davidson knows Kane is worth more than that.
Drury does, too.
But that was the offer, and the Blackhawks felt they had to take it — for Kane’s sake as much as their own. So, they did.
“If you look at it from the pure hockey standpoint and from an asset return standpoint, it probably doesn’t compute,” Davidson said. “But given the circumstances and the situation, we achieved what we wanted, and that was to put Patrick on a team that he wanted to go to. That’s the main goal here: hopefully get some assets here, which we feel we did, but mainly was repaying a player that’s done so much for the franchise.”
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Post by vadarx on Mar 1, 2023 2:41:29 GMT -6
I am also a big Kaner fan, the Kings are year 4 of rebuild and they have much better prospect pool than the Hawks and younger talent on the roster and probably need 1-2 more years to be a legit challenger. Even if things go your way you still in the 5–7-year rebuild window which puts him close to 40 if he is still playing. Now if they get lucky and land Bedard next year maybe then it is 3-5 years. I think it is great that he wants to be a leader and try to get to another level after this summer, but we need to be realistic this team is years away from winning. This was the problem with Bowman he tried to rebuild on the fly, and it set the team back where the expansion Kracken are ahead of them right now with draft assets, another lottery pick coming this year and Matty Beniers #2 overall from 2021 who looks like a stud. Scotty Bowman managed to rebuild the Dead Wings on the fly for years and years. And of course, we all see what happened when Stan Bowman tried to do the same with the Hawks. I believe Scotty did it by trading one or two top players each year or two for high draft picks. A healthy farm system and good development are key. Two areas that were lacking under Stan. what? Scott Bowman didn't arrive in detroit until they were ready made to make a title runs. that was always his MO. that is how he won so many games, he went to teams that were ready to win. still a great coach, but he definitely wasn't in detroit for the rebuild there. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 3:43:24 GMT -6
that article makes me more furious but confirms 2 things I've been saying all day:
1) kane is a jacka$$ for how he handled the situation, he purposely screwed the franchise over by waiting so long to make a decision and then making it clear he'd only go to 1 team (the very least he could have done was act like 3-4 were in the mix so clown GM boy coulda negotiated better)
2) the franchise is a steaming pile of poo top to bottom, they made it clear they were going to "be nice" and "do right" by kane and toews and would send them anywhere they wanted for anything... why? they owe them NOTHING. it's a business, they paid them to play well, the players did that's it. Are they afraid 19 & 88 wouldn't come back for their jersey retirements or statue unveiling? If so, this entire franchise is more pathetic than I think they are
bottom line: not maximizing a return for kane with a 1st round pick or quality prospect sets the rebuild back even further, just as the debrincat deal did. Davidson got treated like the clueless intern he truly is and got back very little for his 2 biggest trade chips. he and others keep referencing a 5-year rebuild window, you remaining fans will be lucky if this thing is going the right direction by the time 2030 rolls around
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Post by vadarx on Mar 1, 2023 6:07:32 GMT -6
not to hijack the thread here, but I just wanted to point out how I fucking nailed this one. outta the park. 😅 |
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 1, 2023 7:02:14 GMT -6
most definitely not a trouba fan and to a lesser extent not a tarasenko fan either, but i have to say i'll be cheering for the rags this playoff year just to hopefully see a shit load of the old magic again.
now...the tricky part will be fitting anisimov and kero under the cap.
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 1, 2023 7:04:56 GMT -6
not to hijack the thread here, but I just wanted to point out how I fucking nailed this one. outta the park. 😅 in your defense...that seems like such a long time ago. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Mar 1, 2023 10:11:58 GMT -6
not to hijack the thread here, but I just wanted to point out how I fucking nailed this one. outta the park. 😅 in your defense...that seems like such a long time ago. Fells like 3-4 years ago |
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 1, 2023 10:47:34 GMT -6
I am also a big Kaner fan, the Kings are year 4 of rebuild and they have much better prospect pool than the Hawks and younger talent on the roster and probably need 1-2 more years to be a legit challenger. Even if things go your way you still in the 5–7-year rebuild window which puts him close to 40 if he is still playing. Now if they get lucky and land Bedard next year maybe then it is 3-5 years. I think it is great that he wants to be a leader and try to get to another level after this summer, but we need to be realistic this team is years away from winning. This was the problem with Bowman he tried to rebuild on the fly, and it set the team back where the expansion Kracken are ahead of them right now with draft assets, another lottery pick coming this year and Matty Beniers #2 overall from 2021 who looks like a stud. Scotty Bowman managed to rebuild the Dead Wings on the fly for years and years. And of course, we all see what happened when Stan Bowman tried to do the same with the Hawks. I believe Scotty did it by trading one or two top players each year or two for high draft picks. A healthy farm system and good development are key. Two areas that were lacking under Stan. To be clear, Scotty was not the GM of the Wings, he was the coach. He was co-GM with Jim Devellano from june 94 to july 97. Then Jim Holland was hired from july 97 to 2019. Bowman stayed as the coach till 2002, then he retired as coach after the cup win. |
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Post by hsbob on Mar 1, 2023 12:28:07 GMT -6
Scotty Bowman managed to rebuild the Dead Wings on the fly for years and years. And of course, we all see what happened when Stan Bowman tried to do the same with the Hawks. I believe Scotty did it by trading one or two top players each year or two for high draft picks. A healthy farm system and good development are key. Two areas that were lacking under Stan. what? Scott Bowman didn't arrive in detroit until they were ready made to make a title runs. that was always his MO. that is how he won so many games, he went to teams that were ready to win. still a great coach, but he definitely wasn't in detroit for the rebuild there. He also wasn't the GM in Detroit and most of the Wings success came pre-cap,when they could actually add veterans every year vs losing a few every year like cap-era teams have. |
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Post by hsbob on Mar 1, 2023 12:38:37 GMT -6
To those taking this more emotionally,the only thing I'll say is,just imagine how emotional it was for an Org trading it's biggest draw or a player on the same team for 16 years up-rooting himself and his family for a month and a half.
I've never been slow to criticize ownership or the Org but I do try to assess moves on their own,that being said.......I just don't see a 'boogyman' on either side.
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 1, 2023 18:57:35 GMT -6
last to wear #88 for the rags was eric lindros way back in 2004.
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Post by shooter61 on Mar 1, 2023 21:03:04 GMT -6
I for 1, am sorry to see him leave , but dam glad he was on my team for the last 16 years, don't know why you guys are so upset about, waiting 5-6 years for a rebuild, and some even complaining about a 1st round pick in 2026 as being to far in the future, I waited 49 years to see it , count yourselves extremely lucky to have seen 3 in such a short time,
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Post by shooter61 on Mar 1, 2023 21:10:30 GMT -6
^yah, so thankful, he decided to hold the team hostage to ensure they got back a garbage return in a trade... a$$hole legacy forever tarnished i hope he doesn't return, don't want him sitting atop the leaderboard for franchise goals, assists or points and i hope he fails in his quest for another cup some ones spouting sour grapes, I think you should be happy he decided to waive and be traded, it was a big decision for him and his family , and you can tell it was a hard one to make , for you to be so upset with his life decision for your own benefit,,, kinda childish, It's fine to not agree with the compensation, but attacking him as a person no need |
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