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Post by shooter61 on Oct 28, 2021 17:02:19 GMT -6
WOW, hearing lots of criticism, of both Q and Chevy
Donald and the NHLPA had known about it also
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 17:50:20 GMT -6
Wow. You are so wrong it's not even funny. It's tragic. The victim's age has nothing to do with it. He was allegedly sexually assaulted. The victim's size doesn't matter, either. Further, people *properly* trained to investigate these matters knew back in 2010 that unbalanced power relationships exist. Laypeople, like yourself, probably didn't. Professionals, like my wife, most certainly did. I would put real money on the fact that none of McD, McIsaac, Stan, Q, Chevy, and even Gary do not have the proper training to conduct a proper investigation into an alleged sexual assault case. Instead they violated the 'hawks own internal policies by not doing anything about it, not putting Aldrich on something like "administrative leave" to get him away from Beach and any other potential victims until they had professionals conduct a proper investigation. They didn't believe Beach's story, and swept it under the rug.The top brass is accountable. McD, Stan, and McIsaac. ALL of them definitely had the power. The question is whether or not Q and Chevy had the power to get Aldrich out of the situation. Right now I don't know if they did or not. If they did, they should be gone. If not, then no. I agree with all that you said in the highlighted portion of your post. There is no doubt that this should have been turned over to the proper professionals for a valid investigation. Instead, they did nothing. Wasn't the whore a professional? |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 18:14:21 GMT -6
I saw him drafted and I'm sorry but I followed Beach's disappointing career closely and it was disappointing well before the incident. He was always involved in trouble with every JR and AHL team he played for,he picked on and hurt players,he shot pucks into the stands at fans,his attitude was a problem for every coach and he fought a teammate at a team dinner......this big bully of a kid had zero regard for or fear of his coaches.
Trouble always followed Kyle Beach and lo and behold,who's the guy out drinking and whorin' with the predator and yes he was that.
Why the victim shaming? Because I believe Beach's reputation and the disrespect he showed past organizations entered in to his believability with the people in the room who were all well aware of it.
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Post by mikeveisor on Oct 28, 2021 19:48:01 GMT -6
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Post by mvr on Oct 28, 2021 19:54:56 GMT -6
So it has started.... 1) Righteous indignation against the Hawks' core leadership for "not doing enough" despite the fact most were kids themselves at the time and barely knew the victim (and likely did not like him much). www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-leading-players-done-far-beach/2) Quenneville rumoured to be out in Florida as Gary Bettman attempts to cover his ass and control the narrative. Chevy is certainly next in line. The mob needs its blood. Anyone connected to the 2010 team will go down, even Brent Sopel (if you read some of the comments on his twitter feed). There is no room any longer for nuance or understanding. Everything has to be black or white, good or evil, pure innocence or evil guilt. This story unfortunately has become this generation's "The Crucible." I am not one typically to worry much about "woke" culture or political correctness. For the most part, I tend to side with progressives on almost every issue. But this situation is scary. Two wrongs don't make a right. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 28, 2021 19:59:51 GMT -6
I am actually surprised by that. I didn't think it would be that extent of punishment. Won't bode well for Chevy in Winnipeg either. EDIT: Since Q resigned, my comment is moot. |
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Post by guest on Oct 28, 2021 20:00:18 GMT -6
Just went on the Florida website and Q's picture was on there.....then when I hit refresh it was gone. So think that makes it official.
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Post by guest on Oct 28, 2021 20:02:55 GMT -6
Q resigned according to the Panthers website
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Post by guest on Oct 28, 2021 20:04:34 GMT -6
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 28, 2021 20:05:26 GMT -6
Scuttlebutt is Torts may take over for Q in Florida.
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 28, 2021 20:11:12 GMT -6
Will this fate also go to the asst coaches Q had when he was here for the 2010 season?
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Post by LordKOTL on Oct 28, 2021 20:13:27 GMT -6
Chevy goes in tomorrow.
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Post by vadarx on Oct 28, 2021 20:21:20 GMT -6
don't feel bad for Q, honestly. he looks absolutely awful in this.
do not agree with the players get trashed and will be even more pissed if they are forced to retire, because while harassing Beach was wrong, they couldn't have done anything about it otherwise.
however, I can't claim to be overly impressed with T&K in the media last night... defending Bowman? maybe not the time....
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 20:24:49 GMT -6
I am actually surprised by that. I didn't think it would be that extent of punishment. Won't bode well for Chevy in Winnipeg either. EDIT: Since Q resigned, my comment is moot. Forced out. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 20:29:36 GMT -6
don't feel bad for Q, honestly. he looks absolutely awful in this. do not agree with the players get trashed and will be even more pissed if they are forced to retire, because while harassing Beach was wrong, they couldn't have done anything about it otherwise. however, I can't claim to be overly impressed with T&K in the media last night... defending Bowman? maybe not the time.... The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 28, 2021 20:33:28 GMT -6
don't feel bad for Q, honestly. he looks absolutely awful in this. do not agree with the players get trashed and will be even more pissed if they are forced to retire, because while harassing Beach was wrong, they couldn't have done anything about it otherwise. however, I can't claim to be overly impressed with T&K in the media last night... defending Bowman? maybe not the time.... The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. I know that those above him should have handled it, but he has been reported in the investigation to be very dismissive of the incident. he also wrote Aldrich a positive review, from my understanding. I still have yet to read the whole report, however... regardless, he has looked terrible since the report came out. I am not at all surprised that he was forced out. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 20:53:54 GMT -6
The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. I know that those above him should have handled it, but he has been reported in the investigation to be very dismissive of the incident. he also wrote Aldrich a positive review, from my understanding. I still have yet to read the whole report, however... regardless, he has looked terrible since the report came out. I am not at all surprised that he was forced out. So then yes....he should have dismissed what the team president told him to do? He should never coach again because he followed orders. Sounds like everybody dismissed what they heard from their biggest all time trouble maker right after 'Me and your ast coach got all fucked up,picked up a hooker,had a three-way and then.......and then they probably stopped listening. They found him hard to believe. Proof that it was Q who wrote a positive review? I've seen that nowhere. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 21:09:17 GMT -6
And WTF is Crawford still doing behind a NHL bench with a self righteous mob out for blood he actually abused players? Should everyone who knew Crawford was abusing players lose their jobs too?
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Post by vadarx on Oct 28, 2021 21:09:22 GMT -6
I know that those above him should have handled it, but he has been reported in the investigation to be very dismissive of the incident. he also wrote Aldrich a positive review, from my understanding. I still have yet to read the whole report, however... regardless, he has looked terrible since the report came out. I am not at all surprised that he was forced out. So then yes....he should have dismissed what the team president told him to do? He should never coach again because he followed orders. Sounds like everybody dismissed what they heard from their biggest all time trouble maker right after 'Me and your ast coach got all fucked up,picked up a hooker,had a three-way and then.......and then they probably stopped listening. They found him hard to believe. Proof that it was Q who wrote a positive review? I've seen that nowhere. as I said, I haven't read the entire report yet, but I've seen it written elsewhere that Q wrote him a positive review. so, I can not say that with any certainty. I know you have an affinity for Q, but I have a hard time believing you didn't see this coming. but, if you believe Bowman deserved to be let go, then you can't say that Q didn't as well. both were just following orders. |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 28, 2021 21:16:18 GMT -6
right at this particular moment, one thing is really bothering me about all of this the most...
with the calls for blood out there, why in the hell aren't there more for the guy who should be considered the most responsible for this?
I can make a pretty good case (imo) that the players did not know exactly what had happened or didn't understand it. I also could make a case for Bowman and Q not being as complicit as McDonuts, but no wayyyyy can I say the same for one Rockwell Wirtz. there is noooo way in hell he didn't know about this and yet no one seems to be taking him to task...
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Post by hsbob on Oct 28, 2021 21:21:42 GMT -6
So then yes....he should have dismissed what the team president told him to do? He should never coach again because he followed orders. Sounds like everybody dismissed what they heard from their biggest all time trouble maker right after 'Me and your ast coach got all fucked up,picked up a hooker,had a three-way and then.......and then they probably stopped listening. They found him hard to believe. Proof that it was Q who wrote a positive review? I've seen that nowhere. as I said, I haven't read the entire report yet, but I've seen it written elsewhere that Q wrote him a positive review. so, I can not say that with any certainty. I know you have an affinity for Q, but I have a hard time believing you didn't see this coming. but, if you believe Bowman deserved to be let go, then you can't say that Q didn't as well. both were just following orders. I got an affinity for a lot of things and quite a few people have a bone for Q too. I'll believe that Q wrote the guy a letter when I see proof. The job of the CEO and the GM IS to deal with these situation much more so than the HC in my opinion. Should Q have gone to the law against his CO's wishes. |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 28, 2021 21:26:54 GMT -6
So then yes....he should have dismissed what the team president told him to do? He should never coach again because he followed orders. Sounds like everybody dismissed what they heard from their biggest all time trouble maker right after 'Me and your ast coach got all fucked up,picked up a hooker,had a three-way and then.......and then they probably stopped listening. They found him hard to believe. Proof that it was Q who wrote a positive review? I've seen that nowhere. as I said, I haven't read the entire report yet, but I've seen it written elsewhere that Q wrote him a positive review. so, I can not say that with any certainty. I know you have an affinity for Q, but I have a hard time believing you didn't see this coming. but, if you believe Bowman deserved to be let go, then you can't say that Q didn't as well. both were just following orders. Im with hsbob on this one about Q. Q most likely didnt want it to be a distraction for the cup run and focused on that. His biggest mistake is not following up on it after the cup win. A huge career-defining mistake. |
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Post by Tater on Oct 28, 2021 23:15:07 GMT -6
right at this particular moment, one thing is really bothering me about all of this the most... with the calls for blood out there, why in the hell aren't there more for the guy who should be considered the most responsible for this? I can make a pretty good case (imo) that the players did not know exactly what had happened or didn't understand it. I also could make a case for Bowman and Q not being as complicit as McDonuts, but no wayyyyy can I say the same for one Rockwell Wirtz. there is noooo way in hell he didn't know about this and yet no one seems to be taking him to task... He's the guy that payed for the investigation so...
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Post by BigT on Oct 29, 2021 0:28:52 GMT -6
don't feel bad for Q, honestly. he looks absolutely awful in this. do not agree with the players get trashed and will be even more pissed if they are forced to retire, because while harassing Beach was wrong, they couldn't have done anything about it otherwise. however, I can't claim to be overly impressed with T&K in the media last night... defending Bowman? maybe not the time.... The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!! |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 0:40:56 GMT -6
The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!! T, regardless if it was raped or consensual or how horrible Beach is, the fact is a sexual assault happened, it was reported, and the management handled it incorrectly. Beach is not in trial here, investigations have proven his side of the story |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 0:47:46 GMT -6
WOW, hearing lots of criticism, of both Q and Chevy Donald and the NHLPA had known about it also Q already fell on the sword, in addition to everyone in that “meeting room”, if Chevy falls as well, i would expect Don and NHLPA and maybe someone in NHL to get canned as well. This has to be all or nothing. Everyone who knew and had the power to put it to rest back in 2010 but chose to ignore and swept it under the rug should not leave unscathed |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 29, 2021 1:52:37 GMT -6
I understand the need for some to seek justice and punish everyone even peripherally involved given the ugliness of the situation. But I am just not ready to throw Toews, Kane, Keith and Quenneville under the bus here. The players and coach weren't there. They had to rely on what they were told. There are some big differences here between this case and the others. 1) the victim in this case was already an adult of consenting age. 2) the victim was male and 6'3" and 200 pounds. He was not a waif gymnast who could not physically overcome her abuser. 3) the victim allegedly had participated in a threesome earlier in the night. 4) details of the incident remain unclear - ie) the date the attack took place, the fact that Aldrich held a baseball hat to restrain his victim while at the same time performing oral sex. To my mind, this story more closely resembles the Weinstein "casting coach" abusages. We all agree Aldrich should have been removed from the team when the story first emerged. The question is who should be held accountable. The problem here is that nobody believed Beach's story. Our understanding of how an imbalanced power relationship can lead to rape coercion didn't really exist before the revelations of the "Me Too" movement. Clearly we are all interpreting the Monica Lewinsky affair in a much different way today than we did in the 1990s. While I do believe you bring up a lot of valid points or questions. The fact still remains that Q, Keith, Kane or Toews we’re not in charge of the team and this is exactly what upper management gets paid to do. McD and Stan dropped the ball here. Deflecting blame just shows you how much of cowards these guys are. McD won’t ever face the music. And Stan has decided it’s easy to blame himself, but it’s even easier to blame someone else. And that’s exactly what he did. And to another point, this is exactly why you don’t hire young impressionable people to be managers. Stans biggest mistake was being put in a very powerful position. Let’s say for shits and giggles that Q did tell him to put off the investigation. Sure that’s an asshole move. But it’s still Stan Bowman’s call to make. I don’t see no reason here for anyone but McD and Stan to share the blame. Blaming the players is even worse. They were very young men and should not shoulder any of this. Again. This is why Stan Bowman is as an awful person to put in charge. Many stuck up for him being a yes man. This is what you get. Inexperience and very timid to make the right decision plus being impressionable by older co workers. It’s a recipe for disaster. Even Dcats comments on Stan were quite alarming. “I understand why they had to get rid of him”. He did say that Stan treated him well, but also reiterated that he understands that they had to get rid of him. Why would he say that? Cuz Stan was a fan boy who didn’t take care of his own house, he was in way over his head and he started pointing fingers. He was too young and inexperienced to have a position like that. Shame on the Hawks for allowing that. They better fucking learn. This Davidson fella should not see the light of day as GM!!! McD was in charge and both Stan and Q left it up to him to do the right thing. The biggest thing Stan and Q did wrong was doing nothing after the playoffs were over. At that particular time neither Stan nor Q could fire Aldrich but Q could have stuck up for his players by telling McD to keep Aldrich completely away from the players and team. Or else! All the people in the room had the well-being of the players because they should not have to pay the price of excessive and unwanted media coverage for the sins of Aldrich. If you did not have a hate on for Stan the comments of D-cat would not be alarming. In other articles Toews and Kane also spoke highly of the affect Stan had on them speaking directly from their experience with him. Kane actually lived with the Bowman family. In this story Stan is not the dastardly villain Aldrich is. Stan and others had to go because of the lengthy cover-up. If thing would have been investigated in 2010 right after the SC they would still be working. When we are long gone historians will look in the NHL Archives and wish they had a GM like Stan. Your opinion is valuable but I am hoping Davidson pulls off a remarkable trade like getting excellent value for Dylan Strome. |
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Post by Tater on Oct 29, 2021 2:26:37 GMT -6
When we are long gone historians will look in the NHL Archives and wish they had a GM like Stan. Your opinion is valuable but I am hoping Davidson pulls off a remarkable trade like getting excellent value for Dylan Strome.
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Post by mvr on Oct 29, 2021 6:47:44 GMT -6
T, regardless if it was raped or consensual or how horrible Beach is, the fact is a sexual assault happened, it was reported, and the management handled it incorrectly. Beach is not in trial here, investigations have proven his side of the story I am not about to blame the victim here. Obviously something happened, and he has suffered terribly for it. But in fairness to those whose careers and reputations have now been ruined, Beach's story was never tested in court. Aldrich continues to deny the entire story. He pled guilty to 4th degree sexual assault of a minor and admits to this crime. This later conviction does not prove that Beach's allegation is entirely true. Quenneville trusted his superiors to do their jobs. The players are now being condemned for not sympathizing with someone they suspected was a liar. Instead of one victim, we now have dozens. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 29, 2021 7:02:45 GMT -6
When we are long gone historians will look in the NHL Archives and wish they had a GM like Stan. Your opinion is valuable but I am hoping Davidson pulls off a remarkable trade like getting excellent value for Dylan Strome.
I am glad I brought laughter to your day. |
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