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Post by LordKOTL on Oct 29, 2021 8:49:32 GMT -6
The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!!Wow, dude...wow. Congratulations. You've just come of as uneducated as well. First off, forcible oral sex is a thing--be it with the assailant carrying a gun, knife, baseball bat, or weapon. Second, being gay doesn't enter into it. This wasn't about sexual preference; that act (alleged), was a power move by a sexual predator. We might not know exactly what happened in that room because all versions are contradicting, but to say it doesn't happen because you personally don't know of someone, or a cousin-in-law who says they would never let someone force oral sex on them when armed with a baseball bat? Wow, dude. That is ignorant as hell. I get it. Beach is an asshole. We know the shit he pulled in Jr's on up. But as I mentioned before, that doesn't mean that he deserved what allegedly happened to him. That doesn't mean that because he's got that past that his outcry should not have been taken seriously and properly investigated by people who actually know what they are doing. The fact that the 'hawks brass didn't take this seriously at the time means we'll never know what the facts are. The real facts could have been known if someone would have stepped up and said, "wait a minute--let's assume for a second that Beach is telling the truth; let's get this investigated". That's the main crux of this. And if Beach was lying about it, a fresh investigation and proper forensic interviews, along with physical evidence, would have him likely got him charged with perjury and/or slander. If what he said was the truth, it would have gotten a sexual predator off the streets where. But, they didn't and here we are. |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 9:07:32 GMT -6
T, regardless if it was raped or consensual or how horrible Beach is, the fact is a sexual assault happened, it was reported, and the management handled it incorrectly. Beach is not in trial here, investigations have proven his side of the story I am not about to blame the victim here. Obviously something happened, and he has suffered terribly for it. But in fairness to those whose careers and reputations have now been ruined, Beach's story was never tested in court. Aldrich continues to deny the entire story. He pled guilty to 4th degree sexual assault of a minor and admits to this crime. This later conviction does not prove that Beach's allegation is entirely true. Quenneville trusted his superiors to do their jobs. The players are now being condemned for not sympathizing with someone they suspected was a liar. Instead of one victim, we now have dozens. i agree with everything youre saying, but the bolded part is what's strange. The Blackhawks management are now in clean up mode. If they truly believe they can win against Beach's story in court - and in essence clear everyone's name instead of succumbing to Beach's story and destroying their careers - why don't they? It seems like they've already accepted this happened and are willing to ruin their reputations *edit - just saw LordKOTL post above this - pretty much adds to my point |
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Post by Tater on Oct 29, 2021 10:05:43 GMT -6
I am glad I brought laughter to your day. Just teasin' ya man.
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 10:06:18 GMT -6
I have not followed the Beach incident stories as closely as some of you. I would like to get your insights into the Coach Q situation. I am not defending him, nor criticizing him. I just don't know all the facts. I assume the following facts are true:
1. Some sexual incident happened between Beach and Aldrich, which Beach claimed was forcible compulsion, of which the Blackhawk management became aware;
2. There were meetings about what to do about the incident and Bowman and Q were there.
3. Q expressed an opinion that the incident should not be dealt with in the middle of the Cup run.
4. The Cup was won and the incident was never investigated by the Hawks, nor brought to the attention of the law authorities (the cops).
5. Aldrich was allowed to attend celebration functions at which Q was present.
6. Later, Q wrote some type of general letter of recommendation expressing favorable things about Aldrich's abilities which he was able to use get various positions after he resigned from the Hawks after being told he was going to be fired the summer after the Cup was won.
7 Q did nothing after the Hawk management failed to investigate the incident to reveal what he knew to law authorities or demand an investigation.
I also assume Q was told after his meeting with Bettman that he was going to be fired, so he resigned, so I will say he was fired. I also assume that the Panthers fired him because they did not want to associate with someone who was so close to the failure to investigate the Beach incident; later celebrated with Aldrich; and wrote a letter of recommendation for him.
Anyway, please tell me why you think he was going to be fired, whether you think it was justified or not. I am just trying to get more insight into what he did wrong that justified being terminated. Or, whether he did nothing wrong and lost his job because of a movement by the league, the Hawks and the Panthers to get as far away as possible from taint from the incident by terminating those "suits" associated with the failure to investigate and to create a perception that the NHL and its members are always striving to do the "right thing". Also, if you think it is important, please consider, if true, that rather than get the cops involved in investigating the incident, the Hawks simply told Aldrich to resign or be fired; and let him walk away with a recommendation letter from Q so that Aldrich was able to move on to his eventual crime at a Michigan high school without any knowledge by others who later employed Aldrich that he was involved in the Beach incident.
In answering me, please consider what Q, as a coach who was aware of the incident and knew it was never investigated, could/should have done about it. How was important was it that he celebrated the Cup with Aldrich or wrote a favorable letter? Was writing the letter without an investigation having been done enough to justify Q's termination? Thanks.
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 10:14:25 GMT -6
Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing.
NHL management is a fucking joke
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 10:48:10 GMT -6
Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke Q wasn't punished by the NHL, although it was possible that he was going to be, if did not "choose" to resign. Apparently, there might have been reasons why Florida was going to fire Q. Will Winnipeg take the same action, if Chev does not resign? Clearly, if Q deserved to be fired as a coach, then Chev deserves to be fired as the guy who was the asst GM when this all came down, if the failure to investigate is the reason justifying the firing. However, if celebrating with Aldrich after the Cup win is the "bad act", then both Q and Chev are guilty. Q has the additional problem of writing the letter of recommendation, which never, under any circumstance, should have been done. I don't think that Chev wrote any recommendation letter for Aldrich. If Winnipeg does not fire Chev or punish him in some way, then, I would think the league, if it is concerned about its image almost has to punish him in some way. The failure to investigate deserves some punishment and clearly Chev had a role in such failure. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 10:53:00 GMT -6
The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!! Aldrege is a predator and his history says he probably did at minimum coerce or even force himself on Beach but I do think Beach recklessly put himself in a bad position if the booze(under age)and hookers(illegal) story is right and it's in the report. The predator sees his chance to pounce in what's already a sex/booze filled situation. Unless Beach was forced to drink and participate sexually and that's hard to picture. I brought up Beach's past and his actions that night before the incident not to victim shame but to address his believability. A few questions... Could Beach himself have gone to HR or the law if he feels he was attached? Paul Vincent comes across as the hero here and I saw an article that says he feels vindicated........for what? This self righteous,finger pointer is the coach Beach told....did he go directly to HR? Did he call the police? Did he do either after the meeting when told we'll handle this by his superiors.....he did not since it wasn't reported to HR until the finals ended. All Paul Vincent did is make sure everyone knew and implicate them.......he also did nothing after the meeting which is what everyone else did because they were told to. |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 11:11:01 GMT -6
Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!! Aldrege is a predator and his history says he probably did at minimum coerce or even force himself on Beach but I do think Beach recklessly put himself in a bad position if the booze(under age)and hookers(illegal) story is right and it's in the report. The predator sees his chance to pounce in what's already a sex/booze filled situation. Unless Beach was forced to drink and participate sexually and that's hard to picture. I brought up Beach's past and his actions that night before the incident not to victim shame but to address his believability. A few questions... Could Beach himself have gone to HR or the law if he feels he was attached? Paul Vincent comes across as the hero here and I saw an article that says he feels vindicated........for what? This self righteous,finger pointer is the coach Beach told....did he go directly to HR? Did he call the police? Did he do either after the meeting when told we'll handle this by his superiors.....he did not since it wasn't reported to HR until the finals ended. All Paul Vincent did is make sure everyone knew and implicate them.......he also did nothing after the meeting which is what everyone else did because they were told to. this is where i said that its "all or nothing". it's either everyone in that room (and everyone who knew) need to be punished or none at all. Also, Beach's believability is no longer in question. Another mistake by everyone involved for not challenging it. Everyone named has either stepped down or been let go, it reeks of guilt whether its true or not |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 12:24:18 GMT -6
Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke Q wasn't punished by the NHL, although it was possible that he was going to be, if did not "choose" to resign. Apparently, there might have been reasons why Florida was going to fire Q. Will Winnipeg take the same action, if Chev does not resign? Clearly, if Q deserved to be fired as a coach, then Chev deserves to be fired as the guy who was the asst GM when this all came down, if the failure to investigate is the reason justifying the firing. However, if celebrating with Aldrich after the Cup win is the "bad act", then both Q and Chev are guilty. Q has the additional problem of writing the letter of recommendation, which never, under any circumstance, should have been done. I don't think that Chev wrote any recommendation letter for Aldrich. If Winnipeg does not fire Chev or punish him in some way, then, I would think the league, if it is concerned about its image almost has to punish him in some way. The failure to investigate deserves some punishment and clearly Chev had a role in such failure. This is the 2nd time you said Q wrote the letter and V said the same,was this in the report? I haven't seen it and no offense but I need proof or a link saying so. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 12:40:06 GMT -6
I have not followed the Beach incident stories as closely as some of you. I would like to get your insights into the Coach Q situation. I am not defending him, nor criticizing him. I just don't know all the facts. I assume the following facts are true: 1. Some sexual incident happened between Beach and Aldrich, which Beach claimed was forcible compulsion, of which the Blackhawk management became aware; 2. There were meetings about what to do about the incident and Bowman and Q were there. 3. Q expressed an opinion that the incident should not be dealt with in the middle of the Cup run. 4. The Cup was won and the incident was never investigated by the Hawks, nor brought to the attention of the law authorities (the cops). 5. Aldrich was allowed to attend celebration functions at which Q was present. 6. Later, Q wrote some type of general letter of recommendation expressing favorable things about Aldrich's abilities which he was able to use get various positions after he resigned from the Hawks after being told he was going to be fired the summer after the Cup was won. 7 Q did nothing after the Hawk management failed to investigate the incident to reveal what he knew to law authorities or demand an investigation. I also assume Q was told after his meeting with Bettman that he was going to be fired, so he resigned, so I will say he was fired. I also assume that the Panthers fired him because they did not want to associate with someone who was so close to the failure to investigate the Beach incident; later celebrated with Aldrich; and wrote a letter of recommendation for him. Anyway, please tell me why you think he was going to be fired, whether you think it was justified or not. I am just trying to get more insight into what he did wrong that justified being terminated. Or, whether he did nothing wrong and lost his job because of a movement by the league, the Hawks and the Panthers to get as far away as possible from taint from the incident by terminating those "suits" associated with the failure to investigate and to create a perception that the NHL and its members are always striving to do the "right thing". Also, if you think it is important, please consider, if true, that rather than get the cops involved in investigating the incident, the Hawks simply told Aldrich to resign or be fired; and let him walk away with a recommendation letter from Q so that Aldrich was able to move on to his eventual crime at a Michigan high school without any knowledge by others who later employed Aldrich that he was involved in the Beach incident. In answering me, please consider what Q, as a coach who was aware of the incident and knew it was never investigated, could/should have done about it. How was important was it that he celebrated the Cup with Aldrich or wrote a favorable letter? Was writing the letter without an investigation having been done enough to justify Q's termination? Thanks. NOBODY did anything after they were told not to! The investigation's agenda seems to be to clear the guy who paid for it and I guarantee Rocky knew because the report said McD did go to HR after the cup was won and if it went to HR.....Rocky knew. Force him to sell the team. Unsurprisingly this is getting laid at the feet of McD and Q,the report and Prince Daniel went out of their way to say SB was a 1st year GM at that point like that matters and like his fans have reminded me.......he was the ast GM for years before he was the GM. Prince Daniel also said the SB they know today would have acted differently....how can he know that and why say that. Q's career has been ruined because he followed orders,he was told to coach his team and oh boy did he. The poor victim didn't go to Q,he went to Paul Vincent and Vincent should have immediately gone to HR but he didn't.......how do you let him off the hook TOO?
If Vincent would have done that Q would be chasin' his 4th cup but he's been railroaded and Chevy getting away with it proves that IMO!
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 12:42:33 GMT -6
Bob, I wasn’t going to comment. But I feel many don’t know this guys history. He called an opponent’s brother a “fucking retard” on many occasions. The refs finally caught him. Remember that kid that was drafted by Arizona? He did the same exact thing and got expelled by many here and by the world. Beach was a shot stain on every org he was involved with. His euro team no longer wants him. His career is done at 31. He needs to find money. So he literally lets this shit slide for 11 years and decided getting *u* on my back wasn’t cool. So he decides to sue and cash in. Many people are uneducated and think Alldick raped him and threaten his life with a baseball bat. I don’t know anyone who gets oral sex performed on them from a dude with a baseball bat in hand. I talked to my wife’s cousin who’s a very successful person and who’s gay, he said that he would never accept fellatio from a dude that would have a bat in hand!!! Aldrege is a predator and his history says he probably did at minimum coerce or even force himself on Beach but I do think Beach recklessly put himself in a bad position if the booze(under age)and hookers(illegal) story is right and it's in the report. The predator sees his chance to pounce in what's already a sex/booze filled situation. Unless Beach was forced to drink and participate sexually and that's hard to picture. I brought up Beach's past and his actions that night before the incident not to victim shame but to address his believability. A few questions... Could Beach himself have gone to HR or the law if he feels he was attached? Paul Vincent comes across as the hero here and I saw an article that says he feels vindicated........for what? This self righteous,finger pointer is the coach Beach told....did he go directly to HR? Did he call the police? Did he do either after the meeting when told we'll handle this by his superiors.....he did not since it wasn't reported to HR until the finals ended. All Paul Vincent did is make sure everyone knew and implicate them.......he also did nothing after the meeting which is what everyone else did because they were told to. I doubt that there is anyone here on these boards who did not drink before reaching 21. Furthermore, the vast majority of 20 year olds would not pass up the chance to party with a "ho, unless they were hypervigilant about health concerns. However, if Beach's version is accurate, I think those same 20 year olds would not expect that after the 'ho party, the other male participant would demand that he be allowed to felate the 20 year old under the threat of using a baseball bat on Beach's head. So, I don't know how much blame Beach can be assigned for what eventually happened that night. I doubt that any 20 year old male would have seen that one coming. The rest of your comments about why Vincent or Beach did not go to the cops are valid questions. I guess that they didn't because of the strong feelings most have about jeopardizing their jobs by turning on the organization that does not do the right thing. Beach had to think about whether playing in the NHL would ever be a possibility if he ratted out the Hawks and Vincent had to think about about the security of his position with the Hawks, if he went to the cops on his own when the organization did not do that after a reasonable period of time. I do not commend either for not going to the cops. I am only saying that it takes a very strong individual to jeopardize his employment situation, or future, by turning on his employer and going against the corporate decision not to do its own investigation or go to the cops itself. There are women who when raped and do not have concerns about their continuing employment fail to report the rape. I suppose each woman has her reasons for not reporting it, but they do end up not reporting it. That Beach did not go to the cops might have been like that plus the employment concern. I can see why Beach would not want to get involved in a situation where he had to discuss being felated under the threat of a baseball bat. He might have been embarrassed by the whole thing and not wanted to go to the cops. The event was so bizarre, he might have even thought that the cops would not believe him anyway, so why go there. Vincent was probably just afraid he would lose his job. He can't be commended for not going to the cops, but most people would not have gone either, so his failure, while it can be criticized, is somewhat understandable. It is quite a bit different from failing to report a shooting that takes place in one's home. He may have felt he was too far removed from the event to feel compelled to go to the cops, although he certainly could and should have. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 12:50:46 GMT -6
I have not followed the Beach incident stories as closely as some of you. I would like to get your insights into the Coach Q situation. I am not defending him, nor criticizing him. I just don't know all the facts. I assume the following facts are true: 1. Some sexual incident happened between Beach and Aldrich, which Beach claimed was forcible compulsion, of which the Blackhawk management became aware; 2. There were meetings about what to do about the incident and Bowman and Q were there. 3. Q expressed an opinion that the incident should not be dealt with in the middle of the Cup run. 4. The Cup was won and the incident was never investigated by the Hawks, nor brought to the attention of the law authorities (the cops). 5. Aldrich was allowed to attend celebration functions at which Q was present. 6. Later, Q wrote some type of general letter of recommendation expressing favorable things about Aldrich's abilities which he was able to use get various positions after he resigned from the Hawks after being told he was going to be fired the summer after the Cup was won. 7 Q did nothing after the Hawk management failed to investigate the incident to reveal what he knew to law authorities or demand an investigation. I also assume Q was told after his meeting with Bettman that he was going to be fired, so he resigned, so I will say he was fired. I also assume that the Panthers fired him because they did not want to associate with someone who was so close to the failure to investigate the Beach incident; later celebrated with Aldrich; and wrote a letter of recommendation for him. Anyway, please tell me why you think he was going to be fired, whether you think it was justified or not. I am just trying to get more insight into what he did wrong that justified being terminated. Or, whether he did nothing wrong and lost his job because of a movement by the league, the Hawks and the Panthers to get as far away as possible from taint from the incident by terminating those "suits" associated with the failure to investigate and to create a perception that the NHL and its members are always striving to do the "right thing". Also, if you think it is important, please consider, if true, that rather than get the cops involved in investigating the incident, the Hawks simply told Aldrich to resign or be fired; and let him walk away with a recommendation letter from Q so that Aldrich was able to move on to his eventual crime at a Michigan high school without any knowledge by others who later employed Aldrich that he was involved in the Beach incident. In answering me, please consider what Q, as a coach who was aware of the incident and knew it was never investigated, could/should have done about it. How was important was it that he celebrated the Cup with Aldrich or wrote a favorable letter? Was writing the letter without an investigation having been done enough to justify Q's termination? Thanks. NOBODY did anything after they were told not to! The investigation's agenda seems to be to clear the guy who paid for it and I guarantee Rocky knew because the report said McD did go to HR after the cup was won and if it went to HR.....Rocky knew. Force him to sell the team. Unsurprisingly this is getting laid at the feet of McD and Q,the report and Prince Daniel went out of their way to say SB was a 1st year GM at that point like that matters and like his fans have reminded me.......he was the ast GM for years before he was the GM. Prince Daniel also said the SB they know today would have acted differently....how can he know that and why say that. Q's career has been ruined because he followed orders,he was told to coach his team and oh boy did he. The poor victim didn't go to Q,he went to Paul Vincent and Vincent should have immediately gone to HR but he didn't.......how do you let him off the hook TOO?
If Vincent would have done that Q would be chasin' his 4th cup but he's been railroaded and Chevy getting away with it proves that IMO!
The post I wrote to which you responded was really intended to focus on why Q was canned and was it justified. If he was canned solely because he did nothing after the meeting and then, after a reasonable time, found out that the team was not investigating or turning it over to the cops, then it would seem that everyone above the level of player who knew about the allegation, or was at the meetings, should be punished in some way. You pointing out that nobody did anything after they were told not to only serves to emphasize that everyone who did not do anything should be punished if Q was fired for that reason. I thought it was Vincent who brought the event to the attention of HR/management after Beach told him what happened. Am I wrong about that? I thought that it was Vincent's report that brought the incident to the attention of Hawk management and prompted the meetings. Let's say the only thing that Q did wrong was writing the letter of recommendation for Aldrich. Let's not blame him for just coaching and not going to the cops. Is writing the letter of recommendation given what he had heard about Aldrich's behavior enough to justify canning him? Or can he say with respect to the letter that he did nothing wrong because he did not know what really happened between Aldrich and Beach that night? Remember that Aldrich used the letter to get jobs or at least that was his intent. Eventually, he got a job at a high school where he sexually abused a kid, which may (I emphasize MAY) not have happened without Q's letter. I am assuming he used the letter to get the job besides whatever else he cited as his qualifications for the job. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 12:53:32 GMT -6
Aldrege is a predator and his history says he probably did at minimum coerce or even force himself on Beach but I do think Beach recklessly put himself in a bad position if the booze(under age)and hookers(illegal) story is right and it's in the report. The predator sees his chance to pounce in what's already a sex/booze filled situation. Unless Beach was forced to drink and participate sexually and that's hard to picture. I brought up Beach's past and his actions that night before the incident not to victim shame but to address his believability. A few questions... Could Beach himself have gone to HR or the law if he feels he was attached? Paul Vincent comes across as the hero here and I saw an article that says he feels vindicated........for what? This self righteous,finger pointer is the coach Beach told....did he go directly to HR? Did he call the police? Did he do either after the meeting when told we'll handle this by his superiors.....he did not since it wasn't reported to HR until the finals ended. All Paul Vincent did is make sure everyone knew and implicate them.......he also did nothing after the meeting which is what everyone else did because they were told to. I doubt that there is anyone here on these boards who did not drink before reaching 21. Furthermore, the vast majority of 20 year olds would not pass up the chance to party with a "ho, unless they were hypervigilant about health concerns. However, if Beach's version is accurate, I think those same 20 year olds would not expect that after the 'ho party, the other male participant would demand that he be allowed to felate the 20 year old under the threat of using a baseball bat on Beach's head. So, I don't know how much blame Beach can be assigned for what eventually happened that night. I doubt that any 20 year old male would have seen that one coming. The rest of your comments about why Vincent or Beach did not go to the cops are valid questions. I guess that they didn't because of the strong feelings most have about jeopardizing their jobs by turning on the organization that does not do the right thing. Beach had to think about whether playing in the NHL would ever be a possibility if he ratted out the Hawks and Vincent had to think about about the security of his position with the Hawks, if he went to the cops on his own when the organization did not do that after a reasonable period of time. I do not commend either for not going to the cops. I am only saying that it takes a very strong individual to jeopardize his employment situation, or future, by turning on his employer and going against the corporate decision not to do its own investigation or go to the cops itself. There are women who when raped and do not have concerns about their continuing employment fail to report the rape. I suppose each woman has her reasons for not reporting it, but they do end up not reporting it. That Beach did not go to the cops might have been like that plus the employment concern. I can see why Beach would not want to get involved in a situation where he had to discuss being felated under the threat of a baseball bat. He might have been embarrassed by the whole thing and not wanted to go to the cops. The event was so bizarre, he might have even thought that the cops would not believe him anyway, so why go there. Vincent was probably just afraid he would lose his job. He can't be commended for not going to the cops, but most people would not have gone either, so his failure, while it can be criticized, is somewhat understandable. It is quite a bit different from failing to report a shooting that takes place in one's home. He may have felt he was too far removed from the event to feel compelled to go to the cops, although he certainly could and should have. So in your opinion Q is the only guy who should have risked his career.....this is the double standard that just railroaded a guy who only followed orders. Paul Vincent is the only guy who had the 1st person story,he had the responsibility to go directly to HR! Everybody else had the right to protect their careers you say but Q shoulda threw himself on his sword and his career out the window for a player he neither trusted or believed? Beach was also the only player drinking and whoring both illegal activities with the predator because he did stupid shit everywhere and he did it in this instance too. If it went down the way Beach claims,it is a shame and a bad move by Beach putting himself in a situation other young players avoided. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 12:57:26 GMT -6
I doubt that there is anyone here on these boards who did not drink before reaching 21. Furthermore, the vast majority of 20 year olds would not pass up the chance to party with a "ho, unless they were hypervigilant about health concerns. However, if Beach's version is accurate, I think those same 20 year olds would not expect that after the 'ho party, the other male participant would demand that he be allowed to felate the 20 year old under the threat of using a baseball bat on Beach's head. So, I don't know how much blame Beach can be assigned for what eventually happened that night. I doubt that any 20 year old male would have seen that one coming. The rest of your comments about why Vincent or Beach did not go to the cops are valid questions. I guess that they didn't because of the strong feelings most have about jeopardizing their jobs by turning on the organization that does not do the right thing. Beach had to think about whether playing in the NHL would ever be a possibility if he ratted out the Hawks and Vincent had to think about about the security of his position with the Hawks, if he went to the cops on his own when the organization did not do that after a reasonable period of time. I do not commend either for not going to the cops. I am only saying that it takes a very strong individual to jeopardize his employment situation, or future, by turning on his employer and going against the corporate decision not to do its own investigation or go to the cops itself. There are women who when raped and do not have concerns about their continuing employment fail to report the rape. I suppose each woman has her reasons for not reporting it, but they do end up not reporting it. That Beach did not go to the cops might have been like that plus the employment concern. I can see why Beach would not want to get involved in a situation where he had to discuss being felated under the threat of a baseball bat. He might have been embarrassed by the whole thing and not wanted to go to the cops. The event was so bizarre, he might have even thought that the cops would not believe him anyway, so why go there. Vincent was probably just afraid he would lose his job. He can't be commended for not going to the cops, but most people would not have gone either, so his failure, while it can be criticized, is somewhat understandable. It is quite a bit different from failing to report a shooting that takes place in one's home. He may have felt he was too far removed from the event to feel compelled to go to the cops, although he certainly could and should have. So in your opinion Q is the only guy who should have risked his career.....this is the double standard that just railroaded a guy who only followed orders. Paul Vincent is the only guy who had the 1st person story,he had the responsibility to go directly to HR! Everybody else had the right to protect their careers you say but Q shoulda threw himself on his sword and his career out the window for a player he neither trusted or believed? Beach was also the only player drinking and whoring both illegal activities with the predator because he did stupid shit everywhere and he did it in this instance too. If it went down the way Beach claims,it is a shame and a bad move by Beach putting himself in a situation other young players avoided. Bob, please read my response to you which I just posted (#12 above this one) which I was writing when you were sending yours. Then, post back with your thoughts on that post and I will respond to that post and this one. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 12:59:39 GMT -6
NOBODY did anything after they were told not to! The investigation's agenda seems to be to clear the guy who paid for it and I guarantee Rocky knew because the report said McD did go to HR after the cup was won and if it went to HR.....Rocky knew. Force him to sell the team. Unsurprisingly this is getting laid at the feet of McD and Q,the report and Prince Daniel went out of their way to say SB was a 1st year GM at that point like that matters and like his fans have reminded me.......he was the ast GM for years before he was the GM. Prince Daniel also said the SB they know today would have acted differently....how can he know that and why say that. Q's career has been ruined because he followed orders,he was told to coach his team and oh boy did he. The poor victim didn't go to Q,he went to Paul Vincent and Vincent should have immediately gone to HR but he didn't.......how do you let him off the hook TOO?
If Vincent would have done that Q would be chasin' his 4th cup but he's been railroaded and Chevy getting away with it proves that IMO!
First, I thought it was Vincent who brought the event to the attention of HR/management after Beach told him what happened. Am I wrong about that? I thought that it was Vincent's report that brought the incident to the attention of Hawk management and prompted the meetings. Let's say the only thing that Q did wrong was writing the letter of recommendation for Aldrich. Let's not blame him for just coaching and not going to the cops. Is writing the letter of recommendation given what he had heard about Aldrich's behavior enough to justify canning him? Or can he say with respect to the letter that he did nothing wrong because he did not know what really happened between Aldrich and Beach that night? Remember that Aldrich used the letter to get jobs or at least that was his intent. Eventually, he got a job at a high school where he sexually abused a kid, which may (I emphasize MAY) not have happened without Q's letter. I am assuming he used the letter to get the job besides whatever else he cited as his qualifications for the job. Wait a minute here jack,your first sentence suggest you didn't read the entire report or you woulda known Vincent DIDN'T go to HR,he laied in the laps of everyone else and you even said he didn't want to risk his career in an above post. McD went to HR with it after the PO's in mid July which assures me Rocky knew then too. Did you read the entire report because you've said three times now that Q wrote the letter without how you know this.....post proof or a link or stop saying it. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 13:14:27 GMT -6
First, I thought it was Vincent who brought the event to the attention of HR/management after Beach told him what happened. Am I wrong about that? I thought that it was Vincent's report that brought the incident to the attention of Hawk management and prompted the meetings. Let's say the only thing that Q did wrong was writing the letter of recommendation for Aldrich. Let's not blame him for just coaching and not going to the cops. Is writing the letter of recommendation given what he had heard about Aldrich's behavior enough to justify canning him? Or can he say with respect to the letter that he did nothing wrong because he did not know what really happened between Aldrich and Beach that night? Remember that Aldrich used the letter to get jobs or at least that was his intent. Eventually, he got a job at a high school where he sexually abused a kid, which may (I emphasize MAY) not have happened without Q's letter. I am assuming he used the letter to get the job besides whatever else he cited as his qualifications for the job. Wait a minute here jack,your first sentence suggest you didn't read the entire report or you woulda known Vincent DIDN'T go to HR,he laied in the laps of everyone else and you even said he didn't want to risk his career in an above post. McD went to HR with it after the PO's in mid July which assures me Rocky knew then too. Did you read the entire report because you've said three times now that Q wrote the letter without how you know this.....post proof or a link or stop saying it. I did not read the entire report. I only read news stories about it. If Vincent did not go to the team, then how did the team find out about the allegations back in 2010? When I said that Vincent did not want to risk his career, I was only talking about not going to the cops after he learned that once informed of the event, the org did not do its own investigation or go to the cops itself. Based on what I have read from the news stories, I was of the belief that Beach went to Vincent and Vincent went to someone at the org and then the org held meetings about the incident at which McD, Bowman and Q were all present. Please correct this, if it is wrong, or just tell me how the team found out about the incident in the first place. As for Q writing a letter of recommendation, again I thought I read that from news stories about the incident that Q wrote a letter of recommendation for Aldrich. I do not know if he wrote it, or, if he did, whether he wrote it before or after Aldrich resigned. Here is what I read from the Globe and Mail, which I think is a Toronto paper: "Mr. Quenneville penned a recommendation letter for him, and Mr. Aldrich subsequently received paid and unpaid positions with USA Hockey, the University of Notre Dame, Miami University in Ohio, and Houghton High School in Houghton, Mich. While in Houghton, in 2013, Mr. Aldrich was arrested and pled guilty to fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct involving a minor." |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 13:43:23 GMT -6
Q wasn't punished by the NHL, although it was possible that he was going to be, if did not "choose" to resign. Apparently, there might have been reasons why Florida was going to fire Q. Will Winnipeg take the same action, if Chev does not resign? Clearly, if Q deserved to be fired as a coach, then Chev deserves to be fired as the guy who was the asst GM when this all came down, if the failure to investigate is the reason justifying the firing. However, if celebrating with Aldrich after the Cup win is the "bad act", then both Q and Chev are guilty. Q has the additional problem of writing the letter of recommendation, which never, under any circumstance, should have been done. I don't think that Chev wrote any recommendation letter for Aldrich. If Winnipeg does not fire Chev or punish him in some way, then, I would think the league, if it is concerned about its image almost has to punish him in some way. The failure to investigate deserves some punishment and clearly Chev had a role in such failure. This is the 2nd time you said Q wrote the letter and V said the same,was this in the report? I haven't seen it and no offense but I need proof or a link saying so. See above where I quote from the Globe and Mail that Q wrote a letter of recommendation for Aldrich. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 29, 2021 13:51:33 GMT -6
It gets even murkier. Here is a tweet which indicates that Q wrote a performance evaluation about Aldrich, which I would think is an internal memo for use of management in evaluating someone's job performance. This is quite different than a letter of recommendation. Did Q write a letter of recommendation also? If he only wrote the performance evaluation, then he had no reason to believe that this would have been used by someone considering hiring Aldrich after he resigned from the Hawks, and, to my mind, would eliminate writing the performance evaluation as a reason to have him fired. So, before I would draw any conclusions about Q's firing, I would want to know if he did only the performance evaluation, or also a letter of recommendation. If only the former, then writing that was no reason to be fired. If he wrote a letter of recommendation after knowing of the charges against him, that is a tough one and I'd have to think about it more. This would mean that the Globe and Mail report I posted earlier was incorrect in saying he wrote a letter of recommendation, if he only wrote a performance evaluation.
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 14:07:09 GMT -6
Wait a minute here jack,your first sentence suggest you didn't read the entire report or you woulda known Vincent DIDN'T go to HR,he laied in the laps of everyone else and you even said he didn't want to risk his career in an above post. McD went to HR with it after the PO's in mid July which assures me Rocky knew then too. Did you read the entire report because you've said three times now that Q wrote the letter without how you know this.....post proof or a link or stop saying it. I did not read the entire report. I only read news stories about it. If Vincent did not go to the team, then how did the team find out about the allegations back in 2010? When I said that Vincent did not want to risk his career, I was only talking about not going to the cops after he learned that once informed of the event, the org did not do its own investigation or go to the cops itself. Based on what I have read from the news stories, I was of the belief that Beach went to Vincent and Vincent went to someone at the org and then the org held meetings about the incident at which McD, Bowman and Q were all present. Please correct this, if it is wrong, or just tell me how the team found out about the incident in the first place. As for Q writing a letter of recommendation, again I thought I read that from news stories about the incident that Q wrote a letter of recommendation for Aldrich. I do not know if he wrote it, or, if he did, whether he wrote it before or after Aldrich resigned. Here is what I read from the Globe and Mail, which I think is a Toronto paper: "Mr. Quenneville penned a recommendation letter for him, and Mr. Aldrich subsequently received paid and unpaid positions with USA Hockey, the University of Notre Dame, Miami University in Ohio, and Houghton High School in Houghton, Mich. While in Houghton, in 2013, Mr. Aldrich was arrested and pled guilty to fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct involving a minor." The higher ups found out because Vincent called a meeting with them instead of immediately going to HR as is policy with these damming allegations. Why should Q be the only one here to disobey the orders and of his superiors and ruin his career? I haven't seen that anywhere and I tried to devour everything.....no offense but I still need a link and the source. Chevy was present too and the ast GM at the time,he obviously heard the same things as Q and did nothing like Q.....was he also following orders. Why does he then get off scott free? Because Betteman and the mob already have their pound of 'Q Flesh' and little else really matters to to the so-called indignant. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Oct 29, 2021 14:10:05 GMT -6
I have not followed the Beach incident stories as closely as some of you. I would like to get your insights into the Coach Q situation. I am not defending him, nor criticizing him. I just don't know all the facts. I assume the following facts are true: 1. Some sexual incident happened between Beach and Aldrich, which Beach claimed was forcible compulsion, of which the Blackhawk management became aware; 2. There were meetings about what to do about the incident and Bowman and Q were there. 3. Q expressed an opinion that the incident should not be dealt with in the middle of the Cup run. 4. The Cup was won and the incident was never investigated by the Hawks, nor brought to the attention of the law authorities (the cops). 5. Aldrich was allowed to attend celebration functions at which Q was present. 6. Later, Q wrote some type of general letter of recommendation expressing favorable things about Aldrich's abilities which he was able to use get various positions after he resigned from the Hawks after being told he was going to be fired the summer after the Cup was won. 7 Q did nothing after the Hawk management failed to investigate the incident to reveal what he knew to law authorities or demand an investigation. I also assume Q was told after his meeting with Bettman that he was going to be fired, so he resigned, so I will say he was fired. I also assume that the Panthers fired him because they did not want to associate with someone who was so close to the failure to investigate the Beach incident; later celebrated with Aldrich; and wrote a letter of recommendation for him. Anyway, please tell me why you think he was going to be fired, whether you think it was justified or not. I am just trying to get more insight into what he did wrong that justified being terminated. Or, whether he did nothing wrong and lost his job because of a movement by the league, the Hawks and the Panthers to get as far away as possible from taint from the incident by terminating those "suits" associated with the failure to investigate and to create a perception that the NHL and its members are always striving to do the "right thing". Also, if you think it is important, please consider, if true, that rather than get the cops involved in investigating the incident, the Hawks simply told Aldrich to resign or be fired; and let him walk away with a recommendation letter from Q so that Aldrich was able to move on to his eventual crime at a Michigan high school without any knowledge by others who later employed Aldrich that he was involved in the Beach incident. In answering me, please consider what Q, as a coach who was aware of the incident and knew it was never investigated, could/should have done about it. How was important was it that he celebrated the Cup with Aldrich or wrote a favorable letter? Was writing the letter without an investigation having been done enough to justify Q's termination? Thanks. I have 2 guesses as to why Q might have resigned/been forced to resign (and why Chevy wasn't) In the report, it stated in Bowman's recollection: Which I think coupled with how Q behaved to the press before and leading p to the report, casts him in a very negative light. I can't recall much of anything that Chevy said to the media leading up to the report, but in the report the only real mention of him in the meeting is his own recollections: I think this might color perception even though no one else recalled much of what Chevy was supposed to have said, Q didn't say much on his own account, and the quote above was from Stan. It does make it sound like Q was incredibly dismissive, while Chevy wasn't. ~~~ The other has to do with what might actually be required of their respective positions. I can think of a couple of professions where if your boss tells to to do something that might be reprehensible to you or illegal, you are EXPECTED to go against their will. To wit, I believe mandatory reporter positions, like say a school councilor, *HAVE* to make reports to the police if there is a question of abuse or neglect, even if the kid has a history, and even if the principal or their boss says so ( gigecj , correct me if I'm wrong here since you're closer to the school system than I am). I know for a fact that officers in the armed forces are expected to disobey illegal orders--and that the Nuremberg defense doesn't work. Maybe there was an expectation that Q should haqve stood up and went against Stan, McD, etc. since he was the head coach, even if they said something to the effect of, "I'll handle it." And yes' i'm speculating her but just pushing forward a possible reason. Whereas Chevy, as an assitiant GM, maybe he didn't have that expectation since he was not "in the trenches" as it were, like Q. I don't know anything that was said when Q had the come unto Jesus moment with Bettman and the Florida execs, but I think that something in that meeting was the definitive reason why he was "fired", be it pushed from Bettman, the Florida execs, or if Q himself fell on his sword. I do think Q has more culpability than, say, Toews, but I don't think he has as much as Gary, Stan, McD, and certainly not Aldrich. So, I'm kinda neutral on his "firing". If he wasn't, I think there would be some mitigating circumstance. Since he was, apparently something was found bad enough. I will say this, to Quenneville's credit: Him saying he owns his share of it, publicly, is more than Stan did in my opinion who laid the blame at McD's feet. It might not be worth much, but in my estimation it's something and at least admitting culpability. Will be interesting to see Chevy's comments. Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke Surprised, to be honest, but see above. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 14:15:55 GMT -6
It gets even murkier. Here is a tweet which indicates that Q wrote a performance evaluation about Aldrich, which I would think is an internal memo for use of management in evaluating someone's job performance. This is quite different than a letter of recommendation. Did Q write a letter of recommendation also? If he only wrote the performance evaluation, then he had no reason to believe that this would have been used by someone considering hiring Aldrich after he resigned from the Hawks, and, to my mind, would eliminate writing the performance evaluation as a reason to have him fired. So, before I would draw any conclusions about Q's firing, I would want to know if he did only the performance evaluation, or also a letter of recommendation. If only the former, then writing that was no reason to be fired. If he wrote a letter of recommendation after knowing of the charges against him, that is a tough one and I'd have to think about it more. This would mean that the Globe and Mail report I posted earlier was incorrect in saying he wrote a letter of recommendation, if he only wrote a performance evaluation. From the same paid investigator who tripped all over himself saying the Wirtz's didn't know which is impossible to believe. The same investigator who went out of his way to mention SB was a 1st year GM like that mattered. If only the ast coach the poor victim confided in had done the right thing and gone to HR BEFORE he went to everybody else,this would have to have been handled and some great careers wouldn't be ruined. |
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Post by shooter61 on Oct 29, 2021 14:16:36 GMT -6
This whole things smells , from McD, to the players, Q, Boman and chevy, they didn't care about beach all they cared about was the cup, for the players to say they didn't know , come on nothing goes on in a dressing room that doesn't become common knowledge after a bit. funny how all the players not playing heard about it , but JT and the rest didn't , Boyton , Hammer ,Turco,all are on record saying they heard the rumors , so for me it was all a big cover up, got no bad feeling about Q getting canned , and chevy as well,
you don't put a kids life on hold for a game!!!, and some on here are even blaming beach , unbelievable ,
I'm trying to think of a reason not to punish the players, for not speaking up
some Captian JT is to tow the ownership line in all of this , even now with his comments
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Post by shooter61 on Oct 29, 2021 14:19:40 GMT -6
Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke I don't see where it says he was in the room, I could be wrong but I looked twice |
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Post by shooter61 on Oct 29, 2021 14:22:40 GMT -6
It gets even murkier. Here is a tweet which indicates that Q wrote a performance evaluation about Aldrich, which I would think is an internal memo for use of management in evaluating someone's job performance. This is quite different than a letter of recommendation. Did Q write a letter of recommendation also? If he only wrote the performance evaluation, then he had no reason to believe that this would have been used by someone considering hiring Aldrich after he resigned from the Hawks, and, to my mind, would eliminate writing the performance evaluation as a reason to have him fired. So, before I would draw any conclusions about Q's firing, I would want to know if he did only the performance evaluation, or also a letter of recommendation. If only the former, then writing that was no reason to be fired. If he wrote a letter of recommendation after knowing of the charges against him, that is a tough one and I'd have to think about it more. This would mean that the Globe and Mail report I posted earlier was incorrect in saying he wrote a letter of recommendation, if he only wrote a performance evaluation. From the same paid investigator who tripped all over himself saying the Wirtz's didn't know which is impossible to believe. The same investigator who went out of his way to mention SB was a 1st year GM like that mattered. If only the ast coach the poor victim confided in had done the right thing and gone to HR BEFORE he went to everybody else,this would have to have been handled and some great careers wouldn't be ruined. you don't really believe that do you , who do you think HR answers too, It would have ended up in the same room, and the same win at all costs McD , Bowman and Q would have put it on the back burner |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 14:31:23 GMT -6
I have not followed the Beach incident stories as closely as some of you. I would like to get your insights into the Coach Q situation. I am not defending him, nor criticizing him. I just don't know all the facts. I assume the following facts are true: 1. Some sexual incident happened between Beach and Aldrich, which Beach claimed was forcible compulsion, of which the Blackhawk management became aware; 2. There were meetings about what to do about the incident and Bowman and Q were there. 3. Q expressed an opinion that the incident should not be dealt with in the middle of the Cup run. 4. The Cup was won and the incident was never investigated by the Hawks, nor brought to the attention of the law authorities (the cops). 5. Aldrich was allowed to attend celebration functions at which Q was present. 6. Later, Q wrote some type of general letter of recommendation expressing favorable things about Aldrich's abilities which he was able to use get various positions after he resigned from the Hawks after being told he was going to be fired the summer after the Cup was won. 7 Q did nothing after the Hawk management failed to investigate the incident to reveal what he knew to law authorities or demand an investigation. I also assume Q was told after his meeting with Bettman that he was going to be fired, so he resigned, so I will say he was fired. I also assume that the Panthers fired him because they did not want to associate with someone who was so close to the failure to investigate the Beach incident; later celebrated with Aldrich; and wrote a letter of recommendation for him. Anyway, please tell me why you think he was going to be fired, whether you think it was justified or not. I am just trying to get more insight into what he did wrong that justified being terminated. Or, whether he did nothing wrong and lost his job because of a movement by the league, the Hawks and the Panthers to get as far away as possible from taint from the incident by terminating those "suits" associated with the failure to investigate and to create a perception that the NHL and its members are always striving to do the "right thing". Also, if you think it is important, please consider, if true, that rather than get the cops involved in investigating the incident, the Hawks simply told Aldrich to resign or be fired; and let him walk away with a recommendation letter from Q so that Aldrich was able to move on to his eventual crime at a Michigan high school without any knowledge by others who later employed Aldrich that he was involved in the Beach incident. In answering me, please consider what Q, as a coach who was aware of the incident and knew it was never investigated, could/should have done about it. How was important was it that he celebrated the Cup with Aldrich or wrote a favorable letter? Was writing the letter without an investigation having been done enough to justify Q's termination? Thanks. I have 2 guesses as to why Q might have resigned/been forced to resign (and why Chevy wasn't) In the report, it stated in Bowman's recollection: Which I think coupled with how Q behaved to the press before and leading p to the report, casts him in a very negative light. I can't recall much of anything that Chevy said to the media leading up to the report, but in the report the only real mention of him in the meeting is his own recollections: I think this might color perception even though no one else recalled much of what Chevy was supposed to have said, Q didn't say much on his own account, and the quote above was from Stan. It does make it sound like Q was incredibly dismissive, while Chevy wasn't. ~~~ The other has to do with what might actually be required of their respective positions. I can think of a couple of professions where if your boss tells to to do something that might be reprehensible to you or illegal, you are EXPECTED to go against their will. To wit, I believe mandatory reporter positions, like say a school councilor, *HAVE* to make reports to the police if there is a question of abuse or neglect, even if the kid has a history, and even if the principal or their boss says so ( gigecj , correct me if I'm wrong here since you're closer to the school system than I am). I know for a fact that officers in the armed forces are expected to disobey illegal orders--and that the Nuremberg defense doesn't work. Maybe there was an expectation that Q should haqve stood up and went against Stan, McD, etc. since he was the head coach, even if they said something to the effect of, "I'll handle it." And yes' i'm speculating her but just pushing forward a possible reason. Whereas Chevy, as an assitiant GM, maybe he didn't have that expectation since he was not "in the trenches" as it were, like Q. I don't know anything that was said when Q had the come unto Jesus moment with Bettman and the Florida execs, but I think that something in that meeting was the definitive reason why he was "fired", be it pushed from Bettman, the Florida execs, or if Q himself fell on his sword. I do think Q has more culpability than, say, Toews, but I don't think he has as much as Gary, Stan, McD, and certainly not Aldrich. So, I'm kinda neutral on his "firing". If he wasn't, I think there would be some mitigating circumstance. Since he was, apparently something was found bad enough. I will say this, to Quenneville's credit: Him saying he owns his share of it, publicly, is more than Stan did in my opinion who laid the blame at McD's feet. It might not be worth much, but in my estimation it's something and at least admitting culpability. Will be interesting to see Chevy's comments. Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke Surprised, to be honest, but see above. So Stan blamed Q? That's all he ever did. You're the guy to ask this constantly passed over question. Was it the coach's duty who actually took the complaint from the poor victim to go DIRECTLY to HR and if not,why not? Chevy the ast GM heard everything Q heard and also followed the same 'do your job and let us handle this' orders....this is a very selective assignment of blame IMO. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 29, 2021 14:44:28 GMT -6
Once again I stated that Illinois law prohibits employment letters to state anything other than the person worked there.
No more, no less. Not allowed to say anything personal about that person.
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Post by shooter61 on Oct 29, 2021 14:56:34 GMT -6
don't feel bad for Q, honestly. he looks absolutely awful in this. do not agree with the players get trashed and will be even more pissed if they are forced to retire, because while harassing Beach was wrong, they couldn't have done anything about it otherwise. however, I can't claim to be overly impressed with T&K in the media last night... defending Bowman? maybe not the time.... The president of the team tells his coaching staff to concentrate on hockey.we'll handle this.........the staff shoulda done what at that point? Beach harassed plyers all the time....smaller ones. Q, was the Dam coach. , if he had any balls he would have stood up and said something , but he didn't did he , he cared more about his name on the cup, than Beach's life I sorry but I lost all respect for Q |
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Post by LordKOTL on Oct 29, 2021 15:17:05 GMT -6
So Stan blamed Q? That's all he ever did. You're the guy to ask this constantly passed over question. Was it the coach's duty who actually took the complaint from the poor victim to go DIRECTLY to HR and if not,why not? Chevy the ast GM heard everything Q heard and also followed the same 'do your job and let us handle this' orders....this is a very selective assignment of blame IMO. Q also told the press about not having heard anything about this before the report was made public. I think that is probably a reason in Q getting the high-jump. As for your other question, I can't say for certain because I do not know what the NHL's or the Blackhawk's policies would be for what is expected for people not in senior management, but here's my opinion. From what I gather Beach told Vincent who told Gary who told upper management who had the infamous meeting. I don't necessarily think Vincent was wrong, but he could have gone to HR. Vincent telling Beach to see the team psychologist and being essentially mum about HR and the authorities doesn't look good, but it's not heinous IMHO. I think there could be a reasonable expectation that a competent sports psychologist would be better equipped to handle a sexual assault/abuse outcry than anyone else in the organization. Gary was 100% in the wrong, should have gone to HR, should have bypassed upper management, and depending on whether or not he could have been considered a mandatory reporter, should have gone to the authorities. Morally it could be argued that even if he wasn't a mandatory reporter, he should have encouraged Beach to go to the authorities first and foremost. In fact, on my hierarchy of fault on this, Gary is the 2nd worst person in all of this, below Aldrich himself. I think all of senior management severely dropped the ball in that meeting, and as I mentioned in my previous post, a piece of information we don't know is what was the expectation that someone goes around their supervisor. IMHO McD is below Gary at 3rd down in the Hierarchy of Fault. The buck stops with him. Below that, I think everyone in Senior management (including Stan) had an obligation to go above and beyond what their boss said for something of this nature, they could have taken steps to not see this swept under the rug. I don't think Q or Chevy were considered senior management for the record. As I said with Q's position, there might have been mitigating circumstances to him resigning--like his comments to the press before this broke contradicting what the report said, but IMHO it would hinge a lot on his culpability. If he had the power to keep Aldrich and Beach separate, he should have acted on that in my opinion. I don't know if he did have that power though. But like I said, He *did* admit that he owns his share in this, which is a redeeming factor in his favor. Chevy, according to the press release today was not considered senior management, and thus as probably the most junior person in that meeting probably couldn't actually do much--which is what the NHL gave as the reason he could stay. However, I am surprised he wasn't at least censured somewhat. I do expect him to have some statement soon, and I'm hoping it's more along the lines of what Q states and JC stated that what Bowman stated. I am surprised he wasn't let go, but I think others high up know more details than we do. To answer some of the things you've said here and elsewhere: If Hossa, (or others but I'll focus on him) was the one to make some of the boyfriend comments or the "did you like the blowjob" comments, I'd disavow him and probably drop some K-bombs in his name. It doesn't seem like it's in his character, but if he did do that, he deserves all the ire. As for Kane and Toews, the only thing I'm calling for both of them is, the next time they meet the press, to redact/recant their comments about Stan. I'm willing to bet that they both were floored with the report being dropped and possibly were in a denial state but as 30-year old men right now, I think they should own up to it. Beyond that? I have no problems with either on the team, or them keeping their letters. I just think Debrincat should be a full-time A. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2021 15:24:47 GMT -6
From the same paid investigator who tripped all over himself saying the Wirtz's didn't know which is impossible to believe. The same investigator who went out of his way to mention SB was a 1st year GM like that mattered. If only the ast coach the poor victim confided in had done the right thing and gone to HR BEFORE he went to everybody else,this would have to have been handled and some great careers wouldn't be ruined. you don't really believe that do you , who do you think HR answers too, It would have ended up in the same room, and the same win at all costs McD , Bowman and Q would have put it on the back burner You don't really believe that do you? This is still a small,family owned business,it's impossible to believe Rocky didn't know. Why do you want to absolve the ast GM who heard the same things Q did and also did nothing? Why absolve the only coach the victim actually told,also the senior member of he staff as far as age and experience who didn't go directly to HR? He also did nothing and he knew the MOST. |
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Post by squishy24 on Oct 29, 2021 15:25:23 GMT -6
Reports are coming out that cheveldayoff wont be punished by NHL. Wow, im shocked by this. He was an asst GM, higher than the coach, who was in the same room meeting and like everyone else in the room, did nothing. NHL management is a fucking joke I don't see where it says he was in the room, I could be wrong but I looked twice not in this report, but previous news articles mentioned him being in the same "meeting/room" - at least thats what i remembered. if i remember incorrectly, then i can understand why he might not get punished as much as the others, but i think he knew as well and just like everyone, he probably thought it was being handled by higher management or was told that |
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