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Post by tincup on Jun 28, 2021 18:33:03 GMT -6
I’m gonna pose this question. If McD and Stan both decided to leave this alone. Let’s say the players and coaching staff ended up knowing. Is it fair that the players and coaching staff get hell for not doing more? I only ask this because I can see this heading in that direction. You’re about to see management be ultra protective here. So, I’m not sure what’s gonna happen, but expect people to be thrown under the bus and dragged for miles!!! The way I see it is that the Blackhawks organization is just a large company and the players are only employees. If this were a similar situation in any other company all complaints would be placed either through your immediate company superior and/or the HR department. It would be incumbent upon them to investigate and follow up. The fallout from any failure to act on those complaints should be placed upon them and them alone. Of course, every team also has an NHLPA rep as well. If there was no response from management than these accusations should have been pursued through that avenue. If not, then why not? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 28, 2021 19:27:53 GMT -6
www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31728020/gary-bettman-says-potential-discipline-blackhawks-hinge-independent-investigation-concerning-allegationsa few bullet points... NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the league learned of the sexual assault allegations against former Chicago Blackhawks assistant coach Brad Aldrich "relatively recently" and, while it found them "concerning," he said it will wait until an independent review is complete before deciding on potential discipline.
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
"We want to reiterate to you that we take the allegations described in these lawsuits very seriously. They in no way reflect this organization's culture or values," Wirtz wrote in the memo, adding the investigators "have been directed to follow the facts wherever they lead."
According to deputy commissioner Bill Daly, the Blackhawks' deputy counsel first alerted the league office to the Aldrich allegations. Neither Daly nor Bettman specified an exact time they were made aware, but Bettman classified it as "relatively recently considering the allegations ... from at least what we know publicly, are 10 years old."
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Post by tincup on Jun 28, 2021 19:31:35 GMT -6
www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31728020/gary-bettman-says-potential-discipline-blackhawks-hinge-independent-investigation-concerning-allegationsa few bullet points... NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the league learned of the sexual assault allegations against former Chicago Blackhawks assistant coach Brad Aldrich "relatively recently" and, while it found them "concerning," he said it will wait until an independent review is complete before deciding on potential discipline.
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
"We want to reiterate to you that we take the allegations described in these lawsuits very seriously. They in no way reflect this organization's culture or values," Wirtz wrote in the memo, adding the investigators "have been directed to follow the facts wherever they lead."
According to deputy commissioner Bill Daly, the Blackhawks' deputy counsel first alerted the league office to the Aldrich allegations. Neither Daly nor Bettman specified an exact time they were made aware, but Bettman classified it as "relatively recently considering the allegations ... from at least what we know publicly, are 10 years old." Wonder what Bettman means by potential discipline. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 28, 2021 19:36:30 GMT -6
www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31728020/gary-bettman-says-potential-discipline-blackhawks-hinge-independent-investigation-concerning-allegationsa few bullet points... NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the league learned of the sexual assault allegations against former Chicago Blackhawks assistant coach Brad Aldrich "relatively recently" and, while it found them "concerning," he said it will wait until an independent review is complete before deciding on potential discipline.
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
"We want to reiterate to you that we take the allegations described in these lawsuits very seriously. They in no way reflect this organization's culture or values," Wirtz wrote in the memo, adding the investigators "have been directed to follow the facts wherever they lead."
According to deputy commissioner Bill Daly, the Blackhawks' deputy counsel first alerted the league office to the Aldrich allegations. Neither Daly nor Bettman specified an exact time they were made aware, but Bettman classified it as "relatively recently considering the allegations ... from at least what we know publicly, are 10 years old." Wonder what Bettman means by potential discipline. likely not much as the league seems to be letting the chicago blackhawks lead the investigation into misconduct allegations against the chicago blackhawks. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 28, 2021 19:42:11 GMT -6
I’m gonna pose this question. If McD and Stan both decided to leave this alone. Let’s say the players and coaching staff ended up knowing. Is it fair that the players and coaching staff get hell for not doing more? I only ask this because I can see this heading in that direction. You’re about to see management be ultra protective here. So, I’m not sure what’s gonna happen, but expect people to be thrown under the bus and dragged for miles!!! The way I see it is that the Blackhawks organization is just a large company and the players are only employees. If this were a similar situation in any other company all complaints would be placed either through your immediate company superior and/or the HR department. It would be incumbent upon them to investigate and follow up. The fallout from any failure to act on those complaints should be placed upon them and them alone. Of course, every team also has an NHLPA rep as well. If there was no response from management than these accusations should have been pursued through that avenue. If not, then why not? The victim did go through the NHLPA and they said it was a matter for the Hawks management. Which is absolutely bullshit. Just lazy union guys not wanting to do their job. They should’ve filed a grievance immediately, and then put the pressure on the Hawks to do something. Toews is the Hawks rep now. At the time, I’m not sure who was. He was on his rookie deal and I doubt he was asked to be the rep back then!!! |
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Post by tincup on Jun 28, 2021 19:42:32 GMT -6
Wonder what Bettman means by potential discipline. likely not much as the league seems to be letting the chicago blackhawks lead the investigation into misconduct allegations against the chicago blackhawks. I believe the league will be very protective of their image, I’m sure they are in contact with the Blackhawks on damage control. |
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Post by tincup on Jun 28, 2021 19:48:02 GMT -6
The way I see it is that the Blackhawks organization is just a large company and the players are only employees. If this were a similar situation in any other company all complaints would be placed either through your immediate company superior and/or the HR department. It would be incumbent upon them to investigate and follow up. The fallout from any failure to act on those complaints should be placed upon them and them alone. Of course, every team also has an NHLPA rep as well. If there was no response from management than these accusations should have been pursued through that avenue. If not, then why not? The victim did go through the NHLPA and they said it was a matter for the Hawks management. Which is absolutely bullshit. Just lazy union guys not wanting to do their job. They should’ve filed a grievance immediately, and then put the pressure on the Hawks to do something. Toews is the Hawks rep now. At the time, I’m not sure who was. He was on his rookie deal and I doubt he was asked to be the rep back then!!! Absolute BS is right then, their concern about the players is monetary only? So much for protecting your members. |
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Post by Tater on Jun 28, 2021 23:08:50 GMT -6
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 28, 2021 23:33:40 GMT -6
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? should be a 3rd party i'd say. |
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Post by Tater on Jun 28, 2021 23:41:48 GMT -6
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? should be a 3rd party i'd say. Definitely! |
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Post by BigT on Jun 29, 2021 6:07:41 GMT -6
The “independent review” is literally a waste of time. Even if it finds wrong doing, does that make the lawsuit go away? What should probably happen is the Hawks should shitcan Scam Bowman and anyone else who was around for that and let them independently fend for themselves in court.
There’s too many people involved, there’s just no way out of it. Paul Vincent said he’d testify, there’s a bunch of ex players and I’m sure even some coaches will testify. I’m quite sure Scam isn’t a well liked guy either. A bunch of former players always try to call him out for a bad team. Or they just don’t care for him. So this is his death knell. I don’t see any way they can keep him around anymore. Attendance will fall, the team will continue to fail, and no new GM will keep that shit stain of a coach around either. Even though his hands are clean of this, he wreaks of Bowman caulk and it’s literally time to clean house!!!
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 29, 2021 8:06:05 GMT -6
In an internal memo sent to staffers Monday and obtained by ESPN, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz said the team was retaining former federal prosecutor Reid Schar of the law firm of Jenner & Block LLP to conduct an "independent review" into what happened.
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? Jenner and Block are one of the top law firms in the country. They won't compromise an investigation so they ruin their reputation. Now if the Hawks hired the firm of Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, I can see a tainted investigation. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 29, 2021 9:35:22 GMT -6
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? Jenner and Block are one of the top law firms in the country. They won't compromise an investigation so they ruin their reputation. Now if the Hawks hired the firm of Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, I can see a tainted investigation. They can have a reputation to keep up, but they’ll only go as far as the money goes. And of the Wirtz’s decide it went far enough and stop paying paying. It’ll end up “inconclusive”. They can say “The independent review didn’t come up with anything, so we ended it”. It’s just that simple!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 29, 2021 10:29:59 GMT -6
If it's truly an independent investigation,that's a good thing BUT.......these investigations take time and time allows things to blow over. I still see em all blaming McD and going about their business when all is said and done,blaming McD and Q has worked well so far.
The ongoing law suites and now an investigation will also give dam near everyone involved the ability to say they can't comment on an ongoing suit or investigation.
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Post by Tater on Jun 29, 2021 10:47:55 GMT -6
Jenner and Block are one of the top law firms in the country. They won't compromise an investigation so they ruin their reputation. Ahhh, didn't know that. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jun 29, 2021 14:33:46 GMT -6
Is it really an "independent review" if it's paid for by the Hawks? Hmm, which way will that review lean? Jenner and Block are one of the top law firms in the country. They won't compromise an investigation so they ruin their reputation. Now if the Hawks hired the firm of Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, I can see a tainted investigation. "Calling Dr. Howard, calling Dr. Fine, calling Dr. Howard!" |
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Post by hawks27 on Jun 29, 2021 14:36:08 GMT -6
The way I see it is that the Blackhawks organization is just a large company and the players are only employees. If this were a similar situation in any other company all complaints would be placed either through your immediate company superior and/or the HR department. It would be incumbent upon them to investigate and follow up. The fallout from any failure to act on those complaints should be placed upon them and them alone. Of course, every team also has an NHLPA rep as well. If there was no response from management than these accusations should have been pursued through that avenue. If not, then why not? The victim did go through the NHLPA and they said it was a matter for the Hawks management. Which is absolutely bullshit. Just lazy union guys not wanting to do their job. They should’ve filed a grievance immediately, and then put the pressure on the Hawks to do something. Toews is the Hawks rep now. At the time, I’m not sure who was. He was on his rookie deal and I doubt he was asked to be the rep back then!!! Just had a crazy thought: Could this situation have any bearing on Toews' situation? Crazy, I know, but these seem to be quite crazy times we are living in lately. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 29, 2021 15:33:18 GMT -6
The victim did go through the NHLPA and they said it was a matter for the Hawks management. Which is absolutely bullshit. Just lazy union guys not wanting to do their job. They should’ve filed a grievance immediately, and then put the pressure on the Hawks to do something. Toews is the Hawks rep now. At the time, I’m not sure who was. He was on his rookie deal and I doubt he was asked to be the rep back then!!! Just had a crazy thought: Could this situation have any bearing on Toews' situation? Crazy, I know, but these seem to be quite crazy times we are living in lately. I wouldn’t doubt anything. What if it actually was Toews? Maybe they consider him a “former Hawks player” now? I doubt that, but right now everything is a possibility until we know exactly who it was. Maybe it was Skille? Just look at the roster and pick out the younger kids Aldick preyed on. Toews, Kane, Skille, Barker, Smolenak. It was 2 of them they say. So just add up the evidence!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 30, 2021 6:40:31 GMT -6
Just had a crazy thought: Could this situation have any bearing on Toews' situation? Crazy, I know, but these seem to be quite crazy times we are living in lately. I wouldn’t doubt anything. What if it actually was Toews? Maybe they consider him a “former Hawks player” now? I doubt that, but right now everything is a possibility until we know exactly who it was. Maybe it was Skille? Just look at the roster and pick out the younger kids Aldick preyed on. Toews, Kane, Skille, Barker, Smolenak. It was 2 of them they say. So just add up the evidence!!! The victims are referred to as John Doe for a reason,they want anonymity and they deserve it. Where did you get that list of players and who is "they"? |
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Post by BigT on Jun 30, 2021 7:11:38 GMT -6
I wouldn’t doubt anything. What if it actually was Toews? Maybe they consider him a “former Hawks player” now? I doubt that, but right now everything is a possibility until we know exactly who it was. Maybe it was Skille? Just look at the roster and pick out the younger kids Aldick preyed on. Toews, Kane, Skille, Barker, Smolenak. It was 2 of them they say. So just add up the evidence!!! The victims are referred to as John Doe for a reason,they want anonymity and they deserve it. Where did you get that list of players and who is "they"? It has been reported there were two players from the 2009-2010 Chicago BlackHawks that had confided in Paul Vincent about this issue. The reports also say it was a younger player. Not a player near or over 30. Look at the roster, and narrow it down. The player also reportedly wasn’t with the team after that season. Again, this is all just reports. But it’s starting to seem and look real. This is how I came up with that list. If I had to guess. I’d say Skille and Barker. But Niemi was also easily let go easily let go and was younger and also in a new country. He was vulnerable. Not saying any of that is true, but just connecting the dots!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 30, 2021 8:07:46 GMT -6
I wouldn’t doubt anything. What if it actually was Toews? Maybe they consider him a “former Hawks player” now? I doubt that, but right now everything is a possibility until we know exactly who it was. Maybe it was Skille? Just look at the roster and pick out the younger kids Aldick preyed on. Toews, Kane, Skille, Barker, Smolenak. It was 2 of them they say. So just add up the evidence!!! The victims are referred to as John Doe for a reason,they want anonymity and they deserve it. Where did you get that list of players and who is "they"? The roster in the 2009-10 season. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 30, 2021 8:26:46 GMT -6
I guess I just don't understand the need to 'out' a victim who's asked for anonymity. I know who was on the roster and their ages and experience levels,we can all have our speculations but I just don't feel a right to know about someone's identity who's asked for 'John Doe' status......my guess is John Doe!
Apparently the victim's lawyer was on the score yesterday and mentioned some info as far as draft position and where the victim played afterward.......why is beyond me.
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Post by BigT on Jun 30, 2021 12:27:24 GMT -6
I guess I just don't understand the need to 'out' a victim who's asked for anonymity. I know who was on the roster and their ages and experience levels,we can all have our speculations but I just don't feel a right to know about someone's identity who's asked for 'John Doe' status......my guess is John Doe! Apparently the victim's lawyer was on the score yesterday and mentioned some info as far as draft position and where the victim played afterward.......why is beyond me. That’s the whole problem. They’ve given out too much info. People are gonna naturally figure things out. Plus all the reporters supplying info, it’s gonna come out sooner than later!!! |
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Post by mikeveisor on Jun 30, 2021 13:56:57 GMT -6
I guess I just don't understand the need to 'out' a victim who's asked for anonymity. I know who was on the roster and their ages and experience levels,we can all have our speculations but I just don't feel a right to know about someone's identity who's asked for 'John Doe' status......my guess is John Doe! Apparently the victim's lawyer was on the score yesterday and mentioned some info as far as draft position and where the victim played afterward.......why is beyond me. That’s the whole problem. They’ve given out too much info. People are gonna naturally figure things out. Plus all the reporters supplying info, it’s gonna come out sooner than later!!! Agree with you both - I do not understand a "need" to out a victim, but the nature of a John Doe plaintiff in a circumstance like this with a diehard fan base, it is natural for us folks to speculate. And therein lies the difficulty with a John Doe from a lawyer's perspective - reporters are taught to dig for info to fill in all the blanks to a story. Answers to those blanks will eventually be found and folks on the outside of the lawsuit will speculate until that happens. John Doe almost makes this MORE of a story given the intentional mystery about the filing party to the lawsuit. My theory had been Kim Johnsson given his abrupt departure even though there were reports at the time of a concussion. Either way, it will be hard to watch this team going forward if anyone in management then remains in management going forward - at least that's my feel. I still see this getting settled between the team and the plaintiff before any of the principals would ever formally enter a courtroom. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jun 30, 2021 14:46:08 GMT -6
Just had a crazy thought: Could this situation have any bearing on Toews' situation? Crazy, I know, but these seem to be quite crazy times we are living in lately. I wouldn’t doubt anything. What if it actually was Toews? Maybe they consider him a “former Hawks player” now? I doubt that, but right now everything is a possibility until we know exactly who it was. Maybe it was Skille? Just look at the roster and pick out the younger kids Aldick preyed on. Toews, Kane, Skille, Barker, Smolenak. It was 2 of them they say. So just add up the evidence!!! I wasn't meaning to infer that Toews was a victim. I was meaning that he may have been placed in a very uncomfortable position between the victim(s) and the Blackhawks, and that he may have become aware of the situation after the "bubble" the previous season.
I'm glad to know that his case was a treatable physical health situation and that it sounds like he should be back to playing again this coming season. Good news for all, I think (except for Blackhawks' opponents).
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 1, 2021 18:04:56 GMT -6
this same article is posted in the newest toew's thread, but the quotes here refer to the sexual assault allegation. But in his interview with Lazerus, Toews acknowledged that the decision to make this announcement was on his terms and was planned way before the news of the lawsuits and allegations became known. The video was filmed at the Blackhawks’ practice facility in Chicago, the Fifth Third Bank Ice Arena. The facility is open to the public and with Toews being in Chicago and skating at the facility more often in recent weeks, it was probably only a matter of time before someone saw him there with teammates. So rather than dragging out his return announcement any longer, Toews decided now was the time. Not the Blackhawks public relations department.
When it comes to the allegations against the team, against former video coach Brad Aldrich, and the alleged incidents in 2010, Toews says that everything that has been said and reported on the matters may not be the exact truth. Previously, reports have come from former players from the 2010 team, both named (Nick Boynton, Brent Sopel) and unnamed, that “everyone” on the team knew about the incidents.(from jonny) “I don’t know who the player (that talked to The Athletic) is, but it kind of annoyed me because it seemed like it fed the fire a little bit,” Toews said. “When that player commented that everybody on the team knew, that wasn’t true. As far as I know, some guys may have caught whispers of it and some guys were clueless until the next year. I don’t think that was an accurate statement.”anyways, there's more in the article. www.bleachernation.com/blackhawks/2021/07/01/jonathan-toews-speaks-aiming-for-opening-night-medical-info-and-allegations-of-sexual-abuse/ |
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Post by BigT on Jul 2, 2021 8:26:58 GMT -6
According to that article (thanks for posting), like first reported or thought about he’s a “long hauler from Covid”. So, the good news is there’s nothing majorly wrong with him. I know he was probably going through a lot and he had a bunch of small issues. I think the Covid got the best of him, I had it at the same time as he did. And Bob and I talked about that for a while about being a long hauler. I know I had it for over 2 months.
I think it’s good that Toews spoke a bit about those allegations. It gives me hope that only management screwed up. That’s a relief. And I feel the less people involved the better. I’d rather a small few get thrown to the wolves than the whole team!!!
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 5, 2021 20:30:00 GMT -6
Yes...thankfully we got an oversized AC...but since out place is multilevel downstairs is nice and chill but the upstairs is a sauna. Hope you're handling it well, too. This reminds me of my college days in the Phoenix area...not the usual rain, gloom, and the unipiper. I have a little AC that...barely could. It's actually a little cooler where I am in Portland, since I am at about 500'. Now, bicycling home this afternoon from Wilsonville should be an interesting experience. Sounds like my buddy who lives downtown...his AC barely could as well. We're up at higher elevations as well. Still...that was not fun and a couple of fuckwits were setting off fireworks last night. I mean, I like big booms as much as the next psychopath, but we just got out of the sauna, humidity is low and everything is dry. The last thing we need after last year is more wildfires. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 5, 2021 20:42:57 GMT -6
That’s the whole problem. They’ve given out too much info. People are gonna naturally figure things out. Plus all the reporters supplying info, it’s gonna come out sooner than later!!! Agree with you both - I do not understand a "need" to out a victim, but the nature of a John Doe plaintiff in a circumstance like this with a diehard fan base, it is natural for us folks to speculate. And therein lies the difficulty with a John Doe from a lawyer's perspective - reporters are taught to dig for info to fill in all the blanks to a story. Answers to those blanks will eventually be found and folks on the outside of the lawsuit will speculate until that happens. John Doe almost makes this MORE of a story given the intentional mystery about the filing party to the lawsuit. My theory had been Kim Johnsson given his abrupt departure even though there were reports at the time of a concussion. Either way, it will be hard to watch this team going forward if anyone in management then remains in management going forward - at least that's my feel. I still see this getting settled between the team and the plaintiff before any of the principals would ever formally enter a courtroom. Speculation is just that as long as the legal teams keep their traps shut. I think the bigger issue is, depending on who the players are, their conduct *could* be a source of ammunition against them. Unfortunately this is still a thing: the defense will try to attack the victim's character. Hypothetically here: if one or both of the victims were in the Vancouver limo, then the defense could argue against them even though they should be laughed out of court if they tried. |
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Post by mikeveisor on Jul 9, 2021 18:10:50 GMT -6
Agree with you both - I do not understand a "need" to out a victim, but the nature of a John Doe plaintiff in a circumstance like this with a diehard fan base, it is natural for us folks to speculate. And therein lies the difficulty with a John Doe from a lawyer's perspective - reporters are taught to dig for info to fill in all the blanks to a story. Answers to those blanks will eventually be found and folks on the outside of the lawsuit will speculate until that happens. John Doe almost makes this MORE of a story given the intentional mystery about the filing party to the lawsuit. My theory had been Kim Johnsson given his abrupt departure even though there were reports at the time of a concussion. Either way, it will be hard to watch this team going forward if anyone in management then remains in management going forward - at least that's my feel. I still see this getting settled between the team and the plaintiff before any of the principals would ever formally enter a courtroom. <<Speculation is just that as long as the legal teams keep their traps shut...I think the bigger issue is, depending on who the players are, their conduct *could* be a source of ammunition against them. Unfortunately this is still a thing: the defense will try to attack the victim's character. Hypothetically here: if one or both of the victims were in the Vancouver limo, then the defense could argue against them even though they should be laughed out of court if they tried.>> The club will have to seriously start to consider "how do we get out of this before depositions get taken" if they lose this argument/motion: info.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/hawks-file-motion-to-dismiss-the-lawsuit-filed-by-student-whom-aldrich-sexually-assaulted-in-2013?fbclid=IwAR2tKsbwkMXV_ZMM9nnda1h7Eoek1CEDLeaIcWMNA7OYjlUuNlPl2PEeE6w. |
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