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Post by tincup on Jul 13, 2021 13:32:27 GMT -6
going by twitter alone, it seems we won the keith trade overwhelmingly. myself, i'm going to hold judgement until we see how keith and jones play under a different systems next season. anyways....i hope getting caleb helps us nab seth. (if that was part of bowman's master plan) although i did read a tweet from a pundit yesterday saying that caleb jones was supposedly on the hawks' radar long before his big brother was rumored to be leaving the jackets. I don't. cuz I know that stupid fucker will trade a first rounder for a guy that has already said he won't sign a long term deal with anyone in a sign and trade. trading a first for ANYONE right now is dumb as shit. I just have a feeling whatever they offer either Jones or Hamilton, these guys will become an albatross contract down the road. Yes, both of these guys make the team better this year. But the team is not good enough to make a ripple when the playoffs arrive if they even make it that far. They aren’t banging on the door. They’ll likely be mediocre at best again heading into a draft next season that’s shaping up to be a good one. The Hawks rookies, some were good, none are looking to be great. Rockford is basically empty. Trading away any of our high end prospects or first rounders is not the way to go. Play the kids, find an identity for this team, start to transition the leadership to the youngun’s you intend to keep. Find a way to improve the pipeline. It’ll be painful.
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Post by BigT on Jul 13, 2021 15:25:08 GMT -6
I don't. cuz I know that stupid fucker will trade a first rounder for a guy that has already said he won't sign a long term deal with anyone in a sign and trade. trading a first for ANYONE right now is dumb as shit. I just have a feeling whatever they offer either Jones or Hamilton, these guys will become an albatross contract down the road. Yes, both of these guys make the team better this year. But the team is not good enough to make a ripple when the playoffs arrive if they even make it that far. They aren’t banging on the door. They’ll likely be mediocre at best again heading into a draft next season that’s shaping up to be a good one. The Hawks rookies, some were good, none are looking to be great. Rockford is basically empty. Trading away any of our high end prospects or first rounders is not the way to go. Play the kids, find an identity for this team, start to transition the leadership to the youngun’s you intend to keep. Find a way to improve the pipeline. It’ll be painful. I think you keep the team you’ve got. Try it out. If it fails, it’s time to have the talk with 19/88. This should be their last year here if this looks bleak again. Keeping them and letting them walk for nothing is stupid. Let the team tank. Get a top 5 pick next year. Then hopefully get the first or second overall in 2023. Mishkov and Bedard are coming out in those drafts, gotta get one of the two. That should be the plan. For Toews and Kane’s last year of the contract. It would be beneficial to the Hawks to retain 50%. This way they could reach the cap floor and tank like never before. Plus they’d get a massive haul for them. This has to be the last year to “go for it” with these two. It’s over. There’s nothing left but ash. It’s been burnt right down to the dirt. The Hawks and it’s fans deserve a fresh set of eyes on this. If they did this 4 years ago, they’d have one hell of a team by now. But this is what you get with egotistical, uneducated member of the sport, balding, boring, idiotic, super failure. Nothing but ash. Just ashes!!!
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Post by vonbeck on Jul 13, 2021 16:17:40 GMT -6
I just have a feeling whatever they offer either Jones or Hamilton, these guys will become an albatross contract down the road. Yes, both of these guys make the team better this year. But the team is not good enough to make a ripple when the playoffs arrive if they even make it that far. They aren’t banging on the door. They’ll likely be mediocre at best again heading into a draft next season that’s shaping up to be a good one. The Hawks rookies, some were good, none are looking to be great. Rockford is basically empty. Trading away any of our high end prospects or first rounders is not the way to go. Play the kids, find an identity for this team, start to transition the leadership to the youngun’s you intend to keep. Find a way to improve the pipeline. It’ll be painful. I think you keep the team you’ve got. Try it out. If it fails, it’s time to have the talk with 19/88. This should be their last year here if this looks bleak again. Keeping them and letting them walk for nothing is stupid. Let the team tank. Get a top 5 pick next year. Then hopefully get the first or second overall in 2023. Mishkov and Bedard are coming out in those drafts, gotta get one of the two. That should be the plan. For Toews and Kane’s last year of the contract. It would be beneficial to the Hawks to retain 50%. This way they could reach the cap floor and tank like never before. Plus they’d get a massive haul for them. This has to be the last year to “go for it” with these two. It’s over. There’s nothing left but ash. It’s been burnt right down to the dirt. The Hawks and it’s fans deserve a fresh set of eyes on this. If they did this 4 years ago, they’d have one hell of a team by now. But this is what you get with egotistical, uneducated member of the sport, balding, boring, idiotic, super failure. Nothing but ash. Just ashes!!! lol,
Don't sugar coat how you feel about Stain Bowman...
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 13, 2021 17:28:04 GMT -6
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 13, 2021 17:41:23 GMT -6
If this next season is a flop. I think it’ll be best to let the last two to go to greener pastures. I think either the Hawks make a move now, or just say it’s “so”. It’s a tough thing to do, but I feel it’s best for all involved!!! If? I think all of the seasons since 2017 have been de facto flops--even with the play-in. I cannot see how this upcoming season will be anything but unless one of our netminders have career--as in .925+ seasons and Debrincat, Kane, Toews, and Koob follow suit and catch fire. Otherwise this year will likely be as painful as a ghost-pepper enema...keeping in mind that with Keith we were looking at a Habanero enema. I think much like Keith, if Kane and Toews want out all they have to do is ask. I sure don't know why they don't, unless there is some sort of loyalty to the Hawks going on. But, why else Kane and Toews would want to stay is way beyond me? I can't imagine that they could really believe that their presence for another year will result in a turnaround for this dismal team. It was not as bad as it was last year simply because Toews was not around and his presence is not going to transform it into a contender.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 13, 2021 17:58:56 GMT -6
good lord, that is ridiculous... edit: yeah, ok, that is just an asinine ask for one player who isn't even a superstar. this is why I don't want to go after Jones. they want too much for him. tbh, if we go after either Hamilton or Jones, I'd rather Hamilton cuz at least he only cost us cap space. Jones will cost the same amount of cap space plus future assets. it is just dumb to trade for him unless the jackets ask is A LOT less.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 13, 2021 18:19:41 GMT -6
If? I think all of the seasons since 2017 have been de facto flops--even with the play-in. I cannot see how this upcoming season will be anything but unless one of our netminders have career--as in .925+ seasons and Debrincat, Kane, Toews, and Koob follow suit and catch fire. Otherwise this year will likely be as painful as a ghost-pepper enema...keeping in mind that with Keith we were looking at a Habanero enema. I think much like Keith, if Kane and Toews want out all they have to do is ask. I sure don't know why they don't, unless there is some sort of loyalty to the Hawks going on. But, why else Kane and Toews would want to stay is way beyond me? I can't imagine that they could really believe that their presence for another year will result in a turnaround for this dismal team. It was not as bad as it was last year simply because Toews was not around and his presence is not going to transform it into a contender. Could be loyalty to the 'hawks. It could be that they won it all 3 times so they don't feel the need to cup-chase. It could be they (Like Seabrook and Campbell, allegedly) are completely settled in Chicago. Hell, it could be they know 21M in cap can really make life difficult for our legume-reckoner and they want to stick it to the man. I don't claim to know what goes on in their minds, but really, if they wanted out all they'd have to do is waive their NMC's, and if Bowman was fighting them, go public with wanting a trade.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 13, 2021 18:54:44 GMT -6
I sure don't know why they don't, unless there is some sort of loyalty to the Hawks going on. But, why else Kane and Toews would want to stay is way beyond me? I can't imagine that they could really believe that their presence for another year will result in a turnaround for this dismal team. It was not as bad as it was last year simply because Toews was not around and his presence is not going to transform it into a contender. Could be loyalty to the 'hawks. It could be that they won it all 3 times so they don't feel the need to cup-chase. It could be they (Like Seabrook and Campbell, allegedly) are completely settled in Chicago. Hell, it could be they know 21M in cap can really make life difficult for our legume-reckoner and they want to stick it to the man. I don't claim to know what goes on in their minds, but really, if they wanted out all they'd have to do is waive their NMC's, and if Bowman was fighting them, go public with wanting a trade. Ignore the loyalty possibility for a moment. If they don't feel the need to Cup chase, then can it really be satisfying to play a half-ass game to avoid injuries yet still be out there making the money? Why not? They played hard for many years, so it might be time to take it easy, avoid injuries and collect the last checks. I don't necessarily criticize them for that, if that is their attitude. It could also be loyalty and deciding to play all out for their money and see what happens. As you said, who knows what counts in the inner recesses of their minds, but, to me, it sure would be a lot more fun to play on a good team than to get your butt beat most nights.
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Post by irmaks on Jul 13, 2021 19:04:43 GMT -6
Call call. I knew I was leaving someone out. Well at least we didn't end up with Keith Seabrook or David Toews 😀
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 13, 2021 20:41:14 GMT -6
Could be loyalty to the 'hawks. It could be that they won it all 3 times so they don't feel the need to cup-chase. It could be they (Like Seabrook and Campbell, allegedly) are completely settled in Chicago. Hell, it could be they know 21M in cap can really make life difficult for our legume-reckoner and they want to stick it to the man. I don't claim to know what goes on in their minds, but really, if they wanted out all they'd have to do is waive their NMC's, and if Bowman was fighting them, go public with wanting a trade. Ignore the loyalty possibility for a moment. If they don't feel the need to Cup chase, then can it really be satisfying to play a half-ass game to avoid injuries yet still be out there making the money? Why not? They played hard for many years, so it might be time to take it easy, avoid injuries and collect the last checks. I don't necessarily criticize them for that, if that is their attitude. It could also be loyalty and deciding to play all out for their money and see what happens. As you said, who knows what counts in the inner recesses of their minds, but, to me, it sure would be a lot more fun to play on a good team than to get your butt beat most nights. I don't disagree with you, but that adage, "You play for the logo on the front of the sweater, and not the name on the back", can also apply to management. Ergo, "Loyalty to the 'hawks" doesn't mean "Loyalty to Stan and his cronies" in my book. But, much like the Keith scenario, if they want out I'll wish them the best of luck and I hope they come back for one more shift. If they want to stay; let them stay. Hopefully they can impart something onto our youth that helps the kids in the future.
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Post by tincup on Jul 13, 2021 21:25:14 GMT -6
Call call. I knew I was leaving someone out. Well at least we didn't end up with Keith Seabrook or David Toews 😀 Or Marcel Hossa….
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Post by number9 on Jul 13, 2021 22:17:04 GMT -6
It seems like we always end up with the lesser of two brothers lately. Strome, Nylander, and now Jones. Subban too Vlasic too
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Post by Tater on Jul 13, 2021 22:31:35 GMT -6
You could even throw in advertising money they get (Chevy ads)...
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 14, 2021 7:54:29 GMT -6
You could even throw in advertising money they get (Chevy ads)... Good point. I never thought of that one...
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Post by hsbob on Jul 14, 2021 8:28:46 GMT -6
Jesper Boqvist isn't all that bad for the Devils either.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 14, 2021 8:35:38 GMT -6
I like Jones and getting a 26yro potential #1 D-man would help any team but I wouldn't trade D-Cat straight up for Jones......even if he re-upped for 7-8M per. The kid was already 3rd in league goal scoring last year @23 and that was with less than stellar linemates.........play D-Cat with a top center and a good power forward and 50 goal campaigns would follow.
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Post by BigT on Jul 14, 2021 8:45:13 GMT -6
I like Jones and getting a 26yro potential #1 D-man would help any team but I wouldn't trade D-Cat straight up for Jones......even if he re-upped for 7-8M per. The kid was already 3rd in league goal scoring last year @23 and that was with less than stellar linemates.........play D-Cat with a top center and a good power forward and 50 goal campaigns would follow. Absolutely. No real GM trades Dcat who’s stock is rising, for Jones who’s stock has been falling. Let alone adding in Dach and Mitchell. That’s just stupid. Columbus will hold on to him, and he’ll sign somewhere else next year. Asking for a teams best player and the teams top two young players is really gonna be a non starter. Especially for a guy with one year left on his deal. The most I’d be willing to go would be pick #11. Mitchell and maybe another prospect. But that’s all contingent on Jones signing an extension!!!
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 14, 2021 8:45:59 GMT -6
Jesper Boqvist isn't all that bad for the Devils either. We had the Hayes brothers as well, with the only “lesser” one playing with the Hawks sweater
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Post by tincup on Jul 14, 2021 14:40:48 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jul 14, 2021 16:28:44 GMT -6
Thanks for this. I love DK, but gawd damn he’s a terrible interview. Hahahaha!!!
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 14, 2021 18:20:03 GMT -6
I like Jones and getting a 26yro potential #1 D-man would help any team but I wouldn't trade D-Cat straight up for Jones......even if he re-upped for 7-8M per. The kid was already 3rd in league goal scoring last year @23 and that was with less than stellar linemates.........play D-Cat with a top center and a good power forward and 50 goal campaigns would follow. Absolutely. No real GM trades Dcat who’s stock is rising, for Jones who’s stock has been falling. Let alone adding in Dach and Mitchell. That’s just stupid. Columbus will hold on to him, and he’ll sign somewhere else next year. Asking for a teams best player and the teams top two young players is really gonna be a non starter. Especially for a guy with one year left on his deal. The most I’d be willing to go would be pick #11. Mitchell and maybe another prospect. But that’s all contingent on Jones signing an extension!!! Even if their stock was equal, one doesn't trade Dcat for Jones straight up. But, regardless of that, where are the Hawks with either DCat or Jones on the team. Nowhere!!!!! They ain't got it and Bowman doesn't know how to get it. I think Bowman is going to try to put something together again this year with Toews and Kane. Then, I guess he trades them next off season, or at the end of 2021-22 when failure again is apparent. No matter what happens it will years and more years before the Hawks are ever again relevant. No NHL GM and no NHL Coach and very few NHL players makes them a perennial loser for many years to come. Could Kane/Toews and DCat pull a miracle this year? Yes, if each has a career year and the supporting cast plus a surprise pickup, or two all of a sudden turns good. That is unlikely, but I can't say it could never happen. I'd say they would have to get 120 goals out of those 3 guys to even have a chance of being relevant.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 15, 2021 8:39:06 GMT -6
Absolutely. No real GM trades Dcat who’s stock is rising, for Jones who’s stock has been falling. Let alone adding in Dach and Mitchell. That’s just stupid. Columbus will hold on to him, and he’ll sign somewhere else next year. Asking for a teams best player and the teams top two young players is really gonna be a non starter. Especially for a guy with one year left on his deal. The most I’d be willing to go would be pick #11. Mitchell and maybe another prospect. But that’s all contingent on Jones signing an extension!!! Even if their stock was equal, one doesn't trade Dcat for Jones straight up. But, regardless of that, where are the Hawks with either DCat or Jones on the team. Nowhere!!!!! They ain't got it and Bowman doesn't know how to get it. I think Bowman is going to try to put something together again this year with Toews and Kane. Then, I guess he trades them next off season, or at the end of 2021-22 when failure again is apparent. No matter what happens it will years and more years before the Hawks are ever again relevant. No NHL GM and no NHL Coach and very few NHL players makes them a perennial loser for many years to come. Could Kane/Toews and DCat pull a miracle this year? Yes, if each has a career year and the supporting cast plus a surprise pickup, or two all of a sudden turns good. That is unlikely, but I can't say it could never happen. I'd say they would have to get 120 goals out of those 3 guys to even have a chance of being relevant. They DID get 120gls out of the three and 267pts to go along with those goals and the team still ended up two games over so your point is well taken. Both top lines were re-shuffled the following year(can't stand prosperity)which resulted in FORTY NINE fewer goals and SEVENTY EIGHT fewer points from the three great players..........BRILLIANT!
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 15, 2021 8:50:13 GMT -6
Absolutely. No real GM trades Dcat who’s stock is rising, for Jones who’s stock has been falling. Let alone adding in Dach and Mitchell. That’s just stupid. Columbus will hold on to him, and he’ll sign somewhere else next year. Asking for a teams best player and the teams top two young players is really gonna be a non starter. Especially for a guy with one year left on his deal. The most I’d be willing to go would be pick #11. Mitchell and maybe another prospect. But that’s all contingent on Jones signing an extension!!! Even if their stock was equal, one doesn't trade Dcat for Jones straight up. But, regardless of that, where are the Hawks with either DCat or Jones on the team. Nowhere!!!!! They ain't got it and Bowman doesn't know how to get it. I think Bowman is going to try to put something together again this year with Toews and Kane. Then, I guess he trades them next off season, or at the end of 2021-22 when failure again is apparent. No matter what happens it will years and more years before the Hawks are ever again relevant. No NHL GM and no NHL Coach and very few NHL players makes them a perennial loser for many years to come. Could Kane/Toews and DCat pull a miracle this year? Yes, if each has a career year and the supporting cast plus a surprise pickup, or two all of a sudden turns good. That is unlikely, but I can't say it could never happen. I'd say they would have to get 120 goals out of those 3 guys to even have a chance of being relevant. I'm really hoping if he goes for it this coming year and we fail epically like I think we will, that he's shown the door and doesn't have a chance to trade them in 21/22.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 15, 2021 9:08:53 GMT -6
Even if their stock was equal, one doesn't trade Dcat for Jones straight up. But, regardless of that, where are the Hawks with either DCat or Jones on the team. Nowhere!!!!! They ain't got it and Bowman doesn't know how to get it. I think Bowman is going to try to put something together again this year with Toews and Kane. Then, I guess he trades them next off season, or at the end of 2021-22 when failure again is apparent. No matter what happens it will years and more years before the Hawks are ever again relevant. No NHL GM and no NHL Coach and very few NHL players makes them a perennial loser for many years to come. Could Kane/Toews and DCat pull a miracle this year? Yes, if each has a career year and the supporting cast plus a surprise pickup, or two all of a sudden turns good. That is unlikely, but I can't say it could never happen. I'd say they would have to get 120 goals out of those 3 guys to even have a chance of being relevant. I'm really hoping if he goes for it this coming year and we fail epically like I think we will, that he's shown the door and doesn't have a chance to trade them in 21/22. Stan will never be shown the door, He's the president of all hockey operations. McDumdum's old job. Now maybe to save face at some point Princess Danny may ask him to relinquish the GM post, but then who will SB replace himself with? ASSistant GM's are Kyle Davidson, Mark Eaton and Ryan Stewart, or will they hire another ex-GM who's also failed with other teams already.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 15, 2021 9:21:46 GMT -6
I'm really hoping if he goes for it this coming year and we fail epically like I think we will, that he's shown the door and doesn't have a chance to trade them in 21/22. Stan will never be shown the door, He's the president of all hockey operations. McDumdum's old job. Now maybe to save face at some point Princess Danny may ask him to relinquish the GM post, but then who will SB replace himself with? ASSistant GM's are Kyle Davidson, Mark Eaton and Ryan Stewart, or will they hire another ex-GM who's also failed with other teams already. I'll accept percussive sublimation of Stan if I need to. I'm also holding out hope that this Alrich situation takes care of everything.
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Post by HawkeyLife07 on Jul 16, 2021 6:04:31 GMT -6
good lord, that is ridiculous... edit: yeah, ok, that is just an asinine ask for one player who isn't even a superstar. this is why I don't want to go after Jones. they want too much for him. tbh, if we go after either Hamilton or Jones, I'd rather Hamilton cuz at least he only cost us cap space. Jones will cost the same amount of cap space plus future assets. it is just dumb to trade for him unless the jackets ask is A LOT less. I'd imagine it's just a control thing. You're more likely to be able to get Seth Jones because you already know he wants to be here and to "seal the deal" you just need to work with another GM by giving the best offer on paper. Giving the best offer on paper to guys in Free Agency isn't a guarantee they'll sign. Hawks probably feel nervous about missing out on a top Dman this year, and they have more control/better odds of getting a guy via trade than assuming a guy will choose to sign with them over 30 other teams.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 16, 2021 6:12:00 GMT -6
good lord, that is ridiculous... edit: yeah, ok, that is just an asinine ask for one player who isn't even a superstar. this is why I don't want to go after Jones. they want too much for him. tbh, if we go after either Hamilton or Jones, I'd rather Hamilton cuz at least he only cost us cap space. Jones will cost the same amount of cap space plus future assets. it is just dumb to trade for him unless the jackets ask is A LOT less. I'd imagine it's just a control thing. You're more likely to be able to get Seth Jones because you already know he wants to be here and to "seal the deal" you just need to work with another GM by giving the best offer on paper. Giving the best offer on paper to guys in Free Agency isn't a guarantee they'll sign. Hawks probably feel nervous about missing out on a top Dman this year, and they have more control/better odds of getting a guy via trade than assuming a guy will choose to sign with them over 30 other teams. I hear ya, likely that is the thought process in the room, but giving up assets now is just a terrible plan. we are in the middle of a rebuild, we shouldn't be trading away prospects or picks, nor should we be giving away cap space...
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Post by HawkeyLife07 on Jul 16, 2021 11:37:04 GMT -6
I'd imagine it's just a control thing. You're more likely to be able to get Seth Jones because you already know he wants to be here and to "seal the deal" you just need to work with another GM by giving the best offer on paper. Giving the best offer on paper to guys in Free Agency isn't a guarantee they'll sign. Hawks probably feel nervous about missing out on a top Dman this year, and they have more control/better odds of getting a guy via trade than assuming a guy will choose to sign with them over 30 other teams. I hear ya, likely that is the thought process in the room, but giving up assets now is just a terrible plan. we are in the middle of a rebuild, we shouldn't be trading away prospects or picks, nor should we be giving away cap space... I have a sneaky feeling Stan is feeling empowered with this extra cap space while also nervous about his job security for many reasons, and that he might go with an "all in" strategy with Toews & Kane one last time. Could be dumb, but could also be fun at least lol.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 17, 2021 11:44:19 GMT -6
I could provide details, but you guys have provided plenty. It is extremely difficult trying to put together a winning team, especially when your GM and coach are incompetent. Just look at the idea of trying to get Jones or Hamilton. The article above says it should not be done because of what the Hawks would have to give away in young "talent" to get either one of those two and what they get will not save the team anyway. So, it does appear that as some have advocated for a long time, the best process is to stick with what they have and let the inevitable failure occur and trade Toews and Kane at the end of the coming year or in the next offseason for the bundle that would be obtained; get good draft picks and then try to put together the best team possible from mostly unproven young guys along with whatever proven talent can be afforded from what cap space is available. Even then, it is no sure bet, but there isn't much else they can do.
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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 15, 2021 22:15:29 GMT -6
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