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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 29, 2022 6:39:38 GMT -6
Even the Ottawa Senators took full advantage of their assets. In the last 15 years they’ve rebuilt twice, it didn’t take very long due to them always trading their assets to get picks and prospects. It’s not popular at the time. But it pans out!!! on the topic of ottawa, what do you think melnyk's death means for the sens? you being in ontario you likely hear more than most. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 29, 2022 7:28:12 GMT -6
Last night was a perfect on display reason why this team needs a total rebuild. Sure a few are fun to watch, but there’s not enough here to win. Needing 8-9 better players is very hard to achieve. The best thing to do is to rip this thing right down, take the 5 years and build her back up. If asset management is used properly, it’ll happen quicker. If anyone remembers the late 90s. All assets were traded for lesser assets to try and keep fans coming. Like Roenick for Zhamnov. Lost Amonte for nothing. Cheli was the only one traded for anything. And they failed on that. Fast forward 2 decades. Scambo did the same thing. Constantly downgraded the roster in every trade. Now the management team has to get the most for its assets. Before it’s too late. History is the best teacher. If 19/88 leave as free agents. The loss will be colossal. Even the Ottawa Senators took full advantage of their assets. In the last 15 years they’ve rebuilt twice, it didn’t take very long due to them always trading their assets to get picks and prospects. It’s not popular at the time. But it pans out!!! To my mind, the coaching really needs to be upgraded. Most of the players (with the exception of Dylan Strome and Alex Debrincat) have regressed this year. What does King have against Jonathan Toews? Against Vegas, once again, he has Debrincat take the faceoff in overtime (which he lost). This strategy of starting Debrincat with Kane in overtime has not worked all year. You need puck possession in overtime and can't get without winning the draw (and Toews is just about the league's best at faceoffs) Last night, clinging to a one goal lead, King puts out the fourth line in the dying minutes (and of course, they get scored on). Then in the last minute while killing the penalty, the coach leaves Toews on the bench. I don't get it. Take your timeout. Make sure Toews is ready to go. Lean on him to close out the tight games. Toews remains by far the team's number one centre for checking assignments. Was Toews hurt? Was he too gassed? We know one thing for sure. Joel Quenneville would have found a way to have Toews out there for most of the last five minutes against Buffalo. |
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Post by hsbob on Mar 29, 2022 9:03:05 GMT -6
When Buffalo tied it up last night,I F'n knew D-Cat would do what it took to put his team back in front........he wouldn't be denied once again but to no avail.....once again. Both goals were HUGE goals and this kid's loaded with more HUGE goals that will be to no avail here.
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Post by Nikos on Mar 29, 2022 10:00:23 GMT -6
Last night was a perfect on display reason why this team needs a total rebuild. Sure a few are fun to watch, but there’s not enough here to win. Needing 8-9 better players is very hard to achieve. The best thing to do is to rip this thing right down, take the 5 years and build her back up. If asset management is used properly, it’ll happen quicker. If anyone remembers the late 90s. All assets were traded for lesser assets to try and keep fans coming. Like Roenick for Zhamnov. Lost Amonte for nothing. Cheli was the only one traded for anything. And they failed on that. Fast forward 2 decades. Scambo did the same thing. Constantly downgraded the roster in every trade. Now the management team has to get the most for its assets. Before it’s too late. History is the best teacher. If 19/88 leave as free agents. The loss will be colossal. Even the Ottawa Senators took full advantage of their assets. In the last 15 years they’ve rebuilt twice, it didn’t take very long due to them always trading their assets to get picks and prospects. It’s not popular at the time. But it pans out!!! To my mind, the coaching really needs to be upgraded. Most of the players (with the exception of Dylan Strome and Alex Debrincat) have regressed this year. What does King have against Jonathan Toews? Against Vegas, once again, he has Debrincat take the faceoff in overtime (which he lost). This strategy of starting Debrincat with Kane in overtime has not worked all year. You need puck possession in overtime and can't get without winning the draw (and Toews is just about the league's best at faceoffs) Last night, clinging to a one goal lead, King puts out the fourth line in the dying minutes (and of course, they get scored on). Then in the last minute while killing the penalty, the coach leaves Toews on the bench. I don't get it. Take your timeout. Make sure Toews is ready to go. Lean on him to close out the tight games. Toews remains by far the team's number one centre for checking assignments. Was Toews hurt? Was he too gassed? We know one thing for sure. Joel Quenneville would have found a way to have Toews out there for most of the last five minutes against Buffalo. The last two games (losing both with 3 and 4 goals leads) and leading heading into the 3rd period is embarrassing. I am sorry this is either falls on King or most of the players do not care to play the right way. Yes I understand there are some first year players, but come on there are still veterans on this team and this should not be happening. If the players are tuning King out and not doing the little things to win games he has to go. Some of these players are going through the motions, let's play hard and the right way, you are professionals!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Mar 29, 2022 10:26:07 GMT -6
To my mind, the coaching really needs to be upgraded. Most of the players (with the exception of Dylan Strome and Alex Debrincat) have regressed this year. What does King have against Jonathan Toews? Against Vegas, once again, he has Debrincat take the faceoff in overtime (which he lost). This strategy of starting Debrincat with Kane in overtime has not worked all year. You need puck possession in overtime and can't get without winning the draw (and Toews is just about the league's best at faceoffs) Last night, clinging to a one goal lead, King puts out the fourth line in the dying minutes (and of course, they get scored on). Then in the last minute while killing the penalty, the coach leaves Toews on the bench. I don't get it. Take your timeout. Make sure Toews is ready to go. Lean on him to close out the tight games. Toews remains by far the team's number one centre for checking assignments. Was Toews hurt? Was he too gassed? We know one thing for sure. Joel Quenneville would have found a way to have Toews out there for most of the last five minutes against Buffalo. The last two games (losing both with 3 and 4 goals leads) and leading heading into the 3rd period is embarrassing. I am sorry this is either falls on King or most of the players do not care to play the right way. Yes I understand there are some first year players, but come on there are still veterans on this team and this should not be happening. If the players are tuning King out and not doing the little things to win games he has to go. Some of these players are going through the motions, let's play hard and the right way, you are professionals!!! Doesn't help when you have vets like de Haan and Gus on the blueline, they both look lost out there. Even McCabe on the tying goal left the front of the net and him and de Haan were by the right faceoff circle and Tuch was all alone, yes Reese Johnson lost his man but if McCabe stayed in front of the net the pass wouldn't have got there. And the goal that went off of Stromes skate right to a Sabres player for a goal was Seths fault, he had the guy covered in the corner but for some reason he took his stick off the ice and that's when the pass was made. So I wouldn't put this on the younger guys but it's the coaches and some of the vets. King and Crawford need to go. It'd be great if they can get rid of Seth and that 9.5mill that kicks in next year, plus de Haan and Gus need to walk. |
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Post by BigT on Mar 29, 2022 10:56:39 GMT -6
Even the Ottawa Senators took full advantage of their assets. In the last 15 years they’ve rebuilt twice, it didn’t take very long due to them always trading their assets to get picks and prospects. It’s not popular at the time. But it pans out!!! on the topic of ottawa, what do you think melnyk's death means for the sens? you being in ontario you likely hear more than most. A lot of fans did not care for him. A lot. There were protests for him to sell the team. I’m not sure what’s to come of this now. Whether his family sells or keeps the team. I think the team will be sold. Maybe Mr Jim Balsillie returns to the market of buying a team? Remember the old Blackberry guy? Gotta think the Sens are worth at least 500 million. But I haven’t heard that much yet. I’m sure by the end of the week we’ll hear a whole lot!!! |
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Post by Nikos on Mar 29, 2022 11:18:42 GMT -6
When Buffalo tied it up last night,I F'n knew D-Cat would do what it took to put his team back in front........he wouldn't be denied once again but to no avail.....once again. Both goals were HUGE goals and this kid's loaded with more HUGE goals that will be to no avail here. Both goals once Vegas and Buffalo tied it up were huge and both were snipes. At the end of the year you can always see how many goals a player scores, but how many were to tie a game, or win a game or equally important score right after someone just came back and tied the game which the Cat just did twice in successive games and they still lose. Yes I know some here present a point of view that it is easy to find/acquire the scoring wingers or discount them when you build a team, but the Cat is a heck of a hockey player and a great one to boot. He deserves better. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 29, 2022 12:39:53 GMT -6
on the topic of ottawa, what do you think melnyk's death means for the sens? you being in ontario you likely hear more than most. A lot of fans did not care for him. A lot. There were protests for him to sell the team. I’m not sure what’s to come of this now. Whether his family sells or keeps the team. I think the team will be sold. Maybe Mr Jim Balsillie returns to the market of buying a team? Remember the old Blackberry guy? Gotta think the Sens are worth at least 500 million. But I haven’t heard that much yet. I’m sure by the end of the week we’ll hear a whole lot!!! The problem in Ottawa is very similar to the one in Arizona. The ownership/city went cheap when originally negotiating a home. The arena in Kanata is way out there in the middle of nowhere. Fans need to drive 30 km out of the city to get to the game, and they must deal with insufficient infrastructure and traffic. The fanbase in the Ottawa Valley region is passionate, and it is huge. But until the Senators get a new arena downtown - close to the amenities, the restaurants and the hotels and accessible by public transportation - that team is in trouble financially. |
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Post by hsbob on Mar 30, 2022 9:39:13 GMT -6
When Buffalo tied it up last night,I F'n knew D-Cat would do what it took to put his team back in front........he wouldn't be denied once again but to no avail.....once again. Both goals were HUGE goals and this kid's loaded with more HUGE goals that will be to no avail here. Both goals once Vegas and Buffalo tied it up were huge and both were snipes. At the end of the year you can always see how many goals a player scores, but how many were to tie a game, or win a game or equally important score right after someone just came back and tied the game which the Cat just did twice in successive games and they still lose. Yes I know some here present a point of view that it is easy to find/acquire the scoring wingers or discount them when you build a team, but the Cat is a heck of a hockey player and a great one to boot. He deserves better. What we're seeing between him and Kane is really special right now Nik,Strome too. The last two 3rd periods didn't just see D-Cat pot one,the last two 3rd periods saw one of the league's true elite goal scorers impose his will on a game that his team was about to squander. Both 3rd periods saw the kid just NOT stop till he gave his boys the chance to save face,he almost had multiple goals in both periods.......but there was to be no face saving from his boys. A good team protects those 3rd period leads their elite sniper handed them after blowing much bigger ones and D-Cat tally's his 21st and 22nd career GWG's but no cigar. It's said we haven't seen how D-Cat would react to PO hockey but we have seen how he reacts to big situations like the last two 3rd periods,LV and the Sabres knew there was one line to stop in the 3rd with one red-hot scorer but they couldn't do it........Alex DeBrincat had his way......to no avail unfortunately. Maybe watching Kane paly his whole career here so far has an effect on the kid and he wants to stay,especially if Kane stays.....for the individual magic alone but I suspect the kid was born for big games and he'll want to play in big games at some point fairly soon. |
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Post by Nikos on Mar 30, 2022 11:50:53 GMT -6
Both goals once Vegas and Buffalo tied it up were huge and both were snipes. At the end of the year you can always see how many goals a player scores, but how many were to tie a game, or win a game or equally important score right after someone just came back and tied the game which the Cat just did twice in successive games and they still lose. Yes I know some here present a point of view that it is easy to find/acquire the scoring wingers or discount them when you build a team, but the Cat is a heck of a hockey player and a great one to boot. He deserves better. What we're seeing between him and Kane is really special right now Nik,Strome too. The last two 3rd periods didn't just see D-Cat pot one,the last two 3rd periods saw one of the league's true elite goal scorers impose his will on a game that his team was about to squander. Both 3rd periods saw the kid just NOT stop till he gave his boys the chance to save face,he almost had multiple goals in both periods.......but there was to be no face saving from his boys. A good team protects those 3rd period leads their elite sniper handed them after blowing much bigger ones and D-Cat tally's his 21st and 22nd career GWG's but no cigar. It's said we haven't seen how D-Cat would react to PO hockey but we have seen how he reacts to big situations like the last two 3rd periods,LV and the Sabres knew there was one line to stop in the 3rd with one red-hot scorer but they couldn't do it........Alex DeBrincat had his way......to no avail unfortunately. Maybe watching Kane paly his whole career here so far has an effect on the kid and he wants to stay,especially if Kane stays.....for the individual magic alone but I suspect the kid was born for big games and he'll want to play in big games at some point fairly soon. I know some argue that his approaching his peak, but to me he is a goal scorer and there is a difference between that and a scoring winger. Provided he takes care of himself can score well into his thirties. The Cat only needs one opportunity to beat you, he has a quick release and that is the key between someone that just winds up and blasts the puck and the Cat who might not light up the radar gun or win the hardest shot competition. With his release the shot is getting to the goalie/net quicker and less time goalie has chance to react and make save. Even when the goalie has the time he picks/snipes corners, again another skill he possesses. I do not see his quick release and ability to shoot the puck leaving him as he gets older. I still remember his 1st NHL goal against all world Carey Price and it was just outside the top of circle, beats Price cleanly and he barely had time to react. The puck was in the net and out in a split second. We all know if goalie can see it and is in position they will stop it at a very high rate. The great goal scorers which I believe Cat is, who is starting to have a track record (minus one year when some idiot had him on a checking line) can still beat the goalie with the quick release and ability to place it in any of the 4 corners of the net. I do not think it is fair right now to say he might react differently to playoff hockey or become less dangerous, in 2019-2020 bubble playoffs he had 6 pts (2 goals) and was +4. He is a confident player and one who wants the puck on his stick, and I believe will thrive when given a chance. He was born a goal scorer and it does not matter if you are 5'7" or 6' 4", with quick release and ability to place shot the red light will be coming on. Hopefully he has a chance in the near future to play in big games and would love to see him in an Indian head sweater. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 30, 2022 12:23:17 GMT -6
Debrincat might be the best and most accurate shooter I have seen in my lifetime - other than perhaps Mike Bossy. He really does capitalize on his opportunities. His vision and passing abilities have improved dramatically as well.
Nevertheless, the Debrincat, Strome, Kane line continues to barely hold water every game 5 on 5. They allow at least as many goals as they score. Debrincat and Kane are both at -13. Strome is at -2. Against Buffalo, for example, they scored a couple, but also allowed the same.
Clearly, the forwards are not the only problem here - the Hawks defence and goaltending has been especially atrocious the past few games.
But for the Hawks to build around Debrincat et al beyond this year, this line needs to stop allowing as many as they score.
Some might argue that Debrincat should not be held responsible for his line's struggles defensively. Of course he should not.
No question, he is the best of the three of them in his own zone. But let's also remember that Patrick Kane is a former Hart trophy winner and a future Hall of Famer. Kane has never been strong defensively. He also has never been anywhere near this negative in +/- in his career.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Mar 30, 2022 12:46:08 GMT -6
What we're seeing between him and Kane is really special right now Nik,Strome too. The last two 3rd periods didn't just see D-Cat pot one,the last two 3rd periods saw one of the league's true elite goal scorers impose his will on a game that his team was about to squander. Both 3rd periods saw the kid just NOT stop till he gave his boys the chance to save face,he almost had multiple goals in both periods.......but there was to be no face saving from his boys. A good team protects those 3rd period leads their elite sniper handed them after blowing much bigger ones and D-Cat tally's his 21st and 22nd career GWG's but no cigar. It's said we haven't seen how D-Cat would react to PO hockey but we have seen how he reacts to big situations like the last two 3rd periods,LV and the Sabres knew there was one line to stop in the 3rd with one red-hot scorer but they couldn't do it........Alex DeBrincat had his way......to no avail unfortunately. Maybe watching Kane paly his whole career here so far has an effect on the kid and he wants to stay,especially if Kane stays.....for the individual magic alone but I suspect the kid was born for big games and he'll want to play in big games at some point fairly soon. I know some argue that his approaching his peak, but to me he is a goal scorer and there is a difference between that and a scoring winger. Provided he takes care of himself can score well into his thirties. The Cat only needs one opportunity to beat you, he has a quick release and that is the key between someone that just winds up and blasts the puck and the Cat who might not light up the radar gun or win the hardest shot competition. With his release the shot is getting to the goalie/net quicker and less time goalie has chance to react and make save. Even when the goalie has the time he picks/snipes corners, again another skill he possesses. I do not see his quick release and ability to shoot the puck leaving him as he gets older. I still remember his 1st NHL goal against all world Carey Price and it was just outside the top of circle, beats Price cleanly and he barely had time to react. The puck was in the net and out in a split second. We all know if goalie can see it and is in position they will stop it at a very high rate. The great goal scorers which I believe Cat is, who is starting to have a track record (minus one year when some idiot had him on a checking line) can still beat the goalie with the quick release and ability to place it in any of the 4 corners of the net. I do not think it is fair right now to say he might react differently to playoff hockey or become less dangerous, in 2019-2020 bubble playoffs he had 6 pts (2 goals) and was +4. He is a confident player and one who wants the puck on his stick, and I believe will thrive when given a chance. He was born a goal scorer and it does not matter if you are 5'7" or 6' 4", with quick release and ability to place shot the red light will be coming on. Hopefully he has a chance in the near future to play in big games and would love to see him in an Indian head sweater. MVR is the only one saying he's approaching his peak. Debrincat isn't an average scoring winger so he shouldn't be lumped in with them. I've been watching him closely since his Erie days and many times when watching highlights I had to rewind to see how he scored, even when goalies are in position he usually finds that little bit of space. And he's always been a good passer but now he's turning into an elite setup guy, which makes him more dangerous. Plus last summer Goodman said Debrincat has gotten bigger and stronger every year since his draft, so I find it hard to believe he's still 165lbs. He's probably close to 180lbs now. How does someone get bigger and stronger and not gain weight? Simple physics don't apply to him because he can rock guys much bigger than him because of his strength and low center of gravity. I don't blame him if he wants to go but maybe he stays and they dump the dead weight on D, de Haan and Gus, and the young guys step up. Regula looks ready plus Allan has the speed, size, and grit for the NHL, can't be any worse than Gus. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 30, 2022 13:19:16 GMT -6
What we're seeing between him and Kane is really special right now Nik,Strome too. The last two 3rd periods didn't just see D-Cat pot one,the last two 3rd periods saw one of the league's true elite goal scorers impose his will on a game that his team was about to squander. Both 3rd periods saw the kid just NOT stop till he gave his boys the chance to save face,he almost had multiple goals in both periods.......but there was to be no face saving from his boys. A good team protects those 3rd period leads their elite sniper handed them after blowing much bigger ones and D-Cat tally's his 21st and 22nd career GWG's but no cigar. It's said we haven't seen how D-Cat would react to PO hockey but we have seen how he reacts to big situations like the last two 3rd periods,LV and the Sabres knew there was one line to stop in the 3rd with one red-hot scorer but they couldn't do it........Alex DeBrincat had his way......to no avail unfortunately. Maybe watching Kane paly his whole career here so far has an effect on the kid and he wants to stay,especially if Kane stays.....for the individual magic alone but I suspect the kid was born for big games and he'll want to play in big games at some point fairly soon. I know some argue that his approaching his peak, but to me he is a goal scorer and there is a difference between that and a scoring winger. Provided he takes care of himself can score well into his thirties. The Cat only needs one opportunity to beat you, he has a quick release and that is the key between someone that just winds up and blasts the puck and the Cat who might not light up the radar gun or win the hardest shot competition. With his release the shot is getting to the goalie/net quicker and less time goalie has chance to react and make save. Even when the goalie has the time he picks/snipes corners, again another skill he possesses. I do not see his quick release and ability to shoot the puck leaving him as he gets older. I still remember his 1st NHL goal against all world Carey Price and it was just outside the top of circle, beats Price cleanly and he barely had time to react. The puck was in the net and out in a split second. We all know if goalie can see it and is in position they will stop it at a very high rate. The great goal scorers which I believe Cat is, who is starting to have a track record (minus one year when some idiot had him on a checking line) can still beat the goalie with the quick release and ability to place it in any of the 4 corners of the net. I do not think it is fair right now to say he might react differently to playoff hockey or become less dangerous, in 2019-2020 bubble playoffs he had 6 pts (2 goals) and was +4. He is a confident player and one who wants the puck on his stick, and I believe will thrive when given a chance. He was born a goal scorer and it does not matter if you are 5'7" or 6' 4", with quick release and ability to place shot the red light will be coming on. Hopefully he has a chance in the near future to play in big games and would love to see him in an Indian head sweater. Debrincat is approaching his peak in terms of offensive production. He will be 25 years old in December. The vast majority of the best goal scorers in history peak around that age, according to the academic studies. There are exceptions, of course, but the overall stats do not lie. It is likely that Debrincat will never score much more than he does this season. He will plateau over the next two or three years, and then his numbers will begin to decline as he approaches his late 20s. This is the trend. The reasons why are varied - injuries, declining hand-eye skills, perhaps decreased motivation and enthusiasm. Who knows why? Each player is different. Could Debrincat buck the trend, like Patrick Kane? Sure. But more likely not. Why this matters - Debrincat is due for his 3rd contract at the end of next year. It is likely his agent will seek max years at max dollars (with a NMC). Debrincat is a winger, not a defenceman or centre. His main responsibility is to generate scoring Is it appropriate for a rebuilding team to sign this type of player long term given that his numbers will almost certainly decline over the last five or six years of his deal? If not, when is the best time to trade Debrincat for maximum return? I would trade him this summer and cash in the chips right now. |
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Post by Nikos on Mar 30, 2022 15:01:26 GMT -6
I know some argue that his approaching his peak, but to me he is a goal scorer and there is a difference between that and a scoring winger. Provided he takes care of himself can score well into his thirties. The Cat only needs one opportunity to beat you, he has a quick release and that is the key between someone that just winds up and blasts the puck and the Cat who might not light up the radar gun or win the hardest shot competition. With his release the shot is getting to the goalie/net quicker and less time goalie has chance to react and make save. Even when the goalie has the time he picks/snipes corners, again another skill he possesses. I do not see his quick release and ability to shoot the puck leaving him as he gets older. I still remember his 1st NHL goal against all world Carey Price and it was just outside the top of circle, beats Price cleanly and he barely had time to react. The puck was in the net and out in a split second. We all know if goalie can see it and is in position they will stop it at a very high rate. The great goal scorers which I believe Cat is, who is starting to have a track record (minus one year when some idiot had him on a checking line) can still beat the goalie with the quick release and ability to place it in any of the 4 corners of the net. I do not think it is fair right now to say he might react differently to playoff hockey or become less dangerous, in 2019-2020 bubble playoffs he had 6 pts (2 goals) and was +4. He is a confident player and one who wants the puck on his stick, and I believe will thrive when given a chance. He was born a goal scorer and it does not matter if you are 5'7" or 6' 4", with quick release and ability to place shot the red light will be coming on. Hopefully he has a chance in the near future to play in big games and would love to see him in an Indian head sweater. Debrincat is approaching his peak in terms of offensive production. He will be 25 years old in December. The vast majority of the best goal scorers in history peak around that age, according to the academic studies. There are exceptions, of course, but the overall stats do not lie. It is likely that Debrincat will never score much more than he does this season. He will plateau over the next two or three years, and then his numbers will begin to decline as he approaches his late 20s. This is the trend. The reasons why are varied - injuries, declining hand-eye skills, perhaps decreased motivation and enthusiasm. Who knows why? Each player is different. Could Debrincat buck the trend, like Patrick Kane? Sure. But more likely not. Why this matters - Debrincat is due for his 3rd contract at the end of next year. It is likely his agent will seek max years at max dollars (with a NMC). Debrincat is a winger, not a defenceman or centre. His main responsibility is to generate scoring Is it appropriate for a rebuilding team to sign this type of player long term given that his numbers will almost certainly decline over the last five or six years of his deal? If not, when is the best time to trade Debrincat for maximum return? I would trade him this summer and cash in the chips right now. Any trade for Debrincat will either bring picks and or prospects, doubt you will get a good NHL ready player back. Possible you get someone who is buried on a good team and just needs an opportunity in addition to the picks and prospects. The picks (which likely will be lottery protected) can be crapshoot and unless the prospects are elite (remember they are still prospects) not sure what you solved other than not paying your best player. Because he is not a center, power forward, Dmen you trade him because you are not ready to win and hope what you get back will be building block. Most of the time you are laying out lots of term and money you are always paying for past performance as a reward and appreciation. You also hope that the player has intangibles and leadership skills that can help with younger players and foster a winning and positive culture. So go ahead and cash in the chips and let's hope you made the right call. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 30, 2022 16:14:49 GMT -6
Debrincat is approaching his peak in terms of offensive production. He will be 25 years old in December. The vast majority of the best goal scorers in history peak around that age, according to the academic studies. There are exceptions, of course, but the overall stats do not lie. It is likely that Debrincat will never score much more than he does this season. He will plateau over the next two or three years, and then his numbers will begin to decline as he approaches his late 20s. This is the trend. The reasons why are varied - injuries, declining hand-eye skills, perhaps decreased motivation and enthusiasm. Who knows why? Each player is different. Could Debrincat buck the trend, like Patrick Kane? Sure. But more likely not. Why this matters - Debrincat is due for his 3rd contract at the end of next year. It is likely his agent will seek max years at max dollars (with a NMC). Debrincat is a winger, not a defenceman or centre. His main responsibility is to generate scoring Is it appropriate for a rebuilding team to sign this type of player long term given that his numbers will almost certainly decline over the last five or six years of his deal? If not, when is the best time to trade Debrincat for maximum return? I would trade him this summer and cash in the chips right now. Any trade for Debrincat will either bring picks and or prospects, doubt you will get a good NHL ready player back. Possible you get someone who is buried on a good team and just needs an opportunity in addition to the picks and prospects. The picks (which likely will be lottery protected) can be crapshoot and unless the prospects are elite (remember they are still prospects) not sure what you solved other than not paying your best player. Because he is not a center, power forward, Dmen you trade him because you are not ready to win and hope what you get back will be building block. Most of the time you are laying out lots of term and money you are always paying for past performance as a reward and appreciation. You also hope that the player has intangibles and leadership skills that can help with younger players and foster a winning and positive culture. So go ahead and cash in the chips and let's hope you made the right call. If the offer is not good enough, you keep him and move on. Just like with Hagel, there is no rush (or deadline pressure). Davidson has a year-plus to find a taker. I believe the best time to sell him would be at this year's draft, but if no trade partner emerges, so be it. He is a RFA next summer. Davidson still has some leverage. Worse case scenario - No legit trade partner emerges, and Debrincat's agent demands a long term NTC deal next summer. Chicago could take the one year arbitration instead and let him walk as a UFA (or trade him as a rental). All I'm saying is that there is no way I support signing any player (but especially a winger) long term with a NTC during the early stages of a rebuild. |
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Post by Nikos on Mar 30, 2022 16:52:08 GMT -6
Any trade for Debrincat will either bring picks and or prospects, doubt you will get a good NHL ready player back. Possible you get someone who is buried on a good team and just needs an opportunity in addition to the picks and prospects. The picks (which likely will be lottery protected) can be crapshoot and unless the prospects are elite (remember they are still prospects) not sure what you solved other than not paying your best player. Because he is not a center, power forward, Dmen you trade him because you are not ready to win and hope what you get back will be building block. Most of the time you are laying out lots of term and money you are always paying for past performance as a reward and appreciation. You also hope that the player has intangibles and leadership skills that can help with younger players and foster a winning and positive culture. So go ahead and cash in the chips and let's hope you made the right call. If the offer is not good enough, you keep him and move on. Just like with Hagel, there is no rush (or deadline pressure). Davidson has a year-plus to find a taker. I believe the best time to sell him would be at this year's draft, but if no trade partner emerges, so be it. He is a RFA next summer. Davidson still has some leverage. Worse case scenario - No legit trade partner emerges, and Debrincat's agent demands a long term NTC deal next summer. Chicago could take the one year arbitration instead and let him walk as a UFA (or trade him as a rental). All I'm saying is that there is no way I support signing any player (but especially a winger) long term with a NTC during the early stages of a rebuild. My point is how do you know the value (future) coming back is better than signing your best player, You already know what you got with Debrincat. I suppose one may argue well that is what you pay your scouts and other hockey people. Do we really trust KD just because he is not Bowman? I agree getting rid of Bowman was the best and right move as he has put this franchisee in such a deal hole and literally left the prospect pool so void you step back and say this was bad dream. The model was in front him with the Pens and he either ignored it or wanted to show everyone he was the smartest person in the room. It is a crime that this team did not win more cups with 19 & 88 in their prime years. Those back to back cups that Pens won history will show they were not great teams, Yes they had 71 & 88 and Letang, Murray the GT what has he did since? Rutherford the GM should get a lot of credit. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 30, 2022 17:09:15 GMT -6
You don't know the value of the assets you are getting back.
What are you doing is protecting cap space and maintaining flexibility during a rebuild. The cap space and roster flexibility is the real key here. You don't want big money contracts with the NMC.
The return is the gravy. Hopefully, some of the assets pan out. You have to count on your scouts to do their jobs.
A successful rebuild is five or more years away. Debrincat is turning 25. He will be on the other side of 30 (and likely older) before this team is a contender again (which according to the studies I cited above will be far past his peak productive years).
The only real advantage with keeping him is to maintain fan interest. Debrincat, even without Kane, is good for a few wins a year (which means lower draft positions).
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Post by mvr on Mar 30, 2022 17:20:43 GMT -6
The Hockey News rates the Hawks prospect base 25th out of 32. Other than Reichel (ranked 15th), their scouts see few real assets of high quality.
None of the Hawks defenders ranked in the top 100 prospects. The rebuild has a long way to go.
Interestingly, the Hockey News editors rank the Hawks draft performance the past several years as the league's worst after "handicapping" opportunity against accumulated talent.
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Post by Nikos on Mar 30, 2022 17:51:55 GMT -6
The Hockey News rates the Hawks prospect base 25th out of 32. Other than Reichel (ranked 15th), their scouts see few real assets of high quality. None of the Hawks defenders ranked in the top 100 prospects. The rebuild has a long way to go. Interestingly, the Hockey News editors rank the Hawks draft performance the past several years as the league's worst after "handicapping" opportunity against accumulated talent. All those defensemen and no one in top 100, that is a crime from a talent evaluation. This just further highlights what Bowman did to this team and how quickly they have fallen. His arrogance, lack of vision, no coherent/sound plan should have gotten him canned before the Beach scandal. I know say some the rebuild can happen quickly with the right moves and hope they are right, equally though we can also be looking at 7-10 years. I mean look at the Sabres and Devils they both have gotten multiple #1 overall picks over the past 5+ years and they still are not ready make any noise, although they are further along than the Hawks with a chance for top lottery picks again this year and possibly in 2023. Maybe we get lucky and land Bedard or the Russian kid in 2023 which will help. Bowman had the chance in 2019 and right now that is not looking good. |
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Post by BigT on Mar 30, 2022 18:04:57 GMT -6
The Hockey News rates the Hawks prospect base 25th out of 32. Other than Reichel (ranked 15th), their scouts see few real assets of high quality. None of the Hawks defenders ranked in the top 100 prospects. The rebuild has a long way to go. Interestingly, the Hockey News editors rank the Hawks draft performance the past several years as the league's worst after "handicapping" opportunity against accumulated talent. All those defensemen and no one in top 100, that is a crime from a talent evaluation. This just further highlights what Bowman did to this team and how quickly they have fallen. His arrogance, lack of vision, no coherent/sound plan should have gotten him canned before the Beach scandal. I know say some the rebuild can happen quickly with the right moves and hope they are right, equally though we can also be looking at 7-10 years. I mean look at the Sabres and Devils they both have gotten multiple #1 overall picks over the past 5+ years and they still are not ready make any noise, although they are further along than the Hawks with a chance for top lottery picks again this year and possibly in 2023. Maybe we get lucky and land Bedard or the Russian kid in 2023 which will help. Bowman had the chance in 2019 and right now that is not looking good. Something to think about. The Hawks are primed to get the 1st overall next year due to this new rule. No team can win the #1 overall pick more than 2 of the past 5 years. Which excludes Buffalo and NJ. Plus it could exclude another team due to this years draft lotto. So I’d say the Hawks chances of getting the 1st overall in 2023 are probably 50% or greater, especially if they deplete the roster!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Mar 30, 2022 18:10:29 GMT -6
All those defensemen and no one in top 100, that is a crime from a talent evaluation. This just further highlights what Bowman did to this team and how quickly they have fallen. His arrogance, lack of vision, no coherent/sound plan should have gotten him canned before the Beach scandal. I know say some the rebuild can happen quickly with the right moves and hope they are right, equally though we can also be looking at 7-10 years. I mean look at the Sabres and Devils they both have gotten multiple #1 overall picks over the past 5+ years and they still are not ready make any noise, although they are further along than the Hawks with a chance for top lottery picks again this year and possibly in 2023. Maybe we get lucky and land Bedard or the Russian kid in 2023 which will help. Bowman had the chance in 2019 and right now that is not looking good. Something to think about. The Hawks are primed to get the 1st overall next year due to this new rule. No team can win the #1 overall pick more than 2 of the past 5 years. Which excludes Buffalo and NJ. Plus it could exclude another team due to this years draft lotto. So I’d say the Hawks chances of getting the 1st overall in 2023 are probably 50% or greater, especially if they deplete the roster!!! I forgot about that stipulation. any help we can get here works for me. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 30, 2022 19:16:16 GMT -6
Something to think about. The Hawks are primed to get the 1st overall next year due to this new rule. No team can win the #1 overall pick more than 2 of the past 5 years. Which excludes Buffalo and NJ. Plus it could exclude another team due to this years draft lotto. So I’d say the Hawks chances of getting the 1st overall in 2023 are probably 50% or greater, especially if they deplete the roster!!! I forgot about that stipulation. any help we can get here works for me. i certainly wasn't aware of it. that's some good news to start the day. |
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debrincat
Mar 30, 2022 19:58:17 GMT -6
via mobile
mvr likes this
Post by BigT on Mar 30, 2022 19:58:17 GMT -6
I forgot about that stipulation. any help we can get here works for me. i certainly wasn't aware of it. that's some good news to start the day. I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! |
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Post by BigT on Mar 30, 2022 20:51:03 GMT -6
Top Dman in the draft is Russian Pavel Mintyukov. He currently plays for Saginaw and has 53 points in 60. So he’s not tied to the KHL. He’s currently ranked 5th. He’s 6’1” 197. Good size and skill. Could be a cornerstone guy. So if the Hawks could get their pick back through trade. This would be my target. Send him back to Jrs for a year then head to the AHL for a year. And he’ll be fine.
I seen him play last Thursday. Spitfires won 8-5. Mintyukov got a goal!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Mar 30, 2022 22:00:40 GMT -6
i certainly wasn't aware of it. that's some good news to start the day. I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! I thought it was the Oiler rule because a lot of GMs complained about Edmonton getting 4 firsts in a short period. Pissed off a lot of fans as well, myself included. So Debrincat for Johnson, top 5 pick (3-5), and another pick, no thanks. I haven't watched Johnson play but his numbers this season compared to his first college season isn't impressive, and he's not even 170lbs at 6'1", Hawks need more size on the top6. And looking at mock drafts there's a couple dmen around the 5-6 spot but neither seem worth getting rid of one of the best scorers the Hawks drafted. If they trade Debrincat, hope not, how about seeing who gets the 1st and offer Debrincat for Shane Wright and other assets. Shane has decent size and a center. |
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Post by nighbor on Mar 31, 2022 0:08:58 GMT -6
i certainly wasn't aware of it. that's some good news to start the day. I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! My inquiring mind wants to know if the hawks win the lottery which is lottery protected and the Wild conditional 2nd becomes a 1st will that pick (Wild) then go to Columbus to complete the Jones trade. |
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debrincat
Mar 31, 2022 0:13:30 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by vadarx on Mar 31, 2022 0:13:30 GMT -6
I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! My inquiring mind wants to know if the hawks win the lottery which is lottery protected and the Wild conditional 2nd becomes a 1st will that pick (Wild) then go to Columbus to complete the Jones trade. I kinda feel like probably no, but that is a fine question. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 31, 2022 0:35:24 GMT -6
My inquiring mind wants to know if the hawks win the lottery which is lottery protected and the Wild conditional 2nd becomes a 1st will that pick (Wild) then go to Columbus to complete the Jones trade. I kinda feel like probably no, but that is a fine question. i agree with both statements. |
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debrincat
Mar 31, 2022 0:40:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on Mar 31, 2022 0:40:55 GMT -6
I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! I thought it was the Oiler rule because a lot of GMs complained about Edmonton getting 4 firsts in a short period. Pissed off a lot of fans as well, myself included. So Debrincat for Johnson, top 5 pick (3-5), and another pick, no thanks. I haven't watched Johnson play but his numbers this season compared to his first college season isn't impressive, and he's not even 170lbs at 6', Hawks need more size on the top6. And looking at mock drafts there's a couple dmen around the 5-6 spot but neither seem worth getting rid of one of the best scorers the Hawks drafted. If they trade Debrincat, hope not, how about seeing who gets the 1st and offer Debrincat for Shane Wright and other assets. Shane has decent size and a center. I don’t believe anyone would trade Shane Wright for Dcat. I could be wrong. But the 1st overall sells tickets and brings hope to a lowly franchise. I just don’t see anyone making that type of trade. Kent Johnson is a good young player. Needs seasoning. Not ready yet and the Hawks have the time. There’s also 4 centers projected to go in the top 5. They could even grab another one there. Also, we all know that weight on an 18/19 year old doesn’t mean much. Right now he’s listed at 6’1” 167. In his rookie year at Michigan, he had 27 points in 26 games. This year he had 37 points in 31 games. So he improved. I’d have him leave Michigan and head to the AHL. Let’s say the Hawks get Bedard next year. That would give the Hawks Bedard, Dach and Johnson as their youthful centermen. If Kane went to the Rags for Lafreniere. There’s your winger. And if Toews went for say Byram. There’s a good building block on D (Obviously firsts would be included in those deals). If the Hawks had Bedard, Lafreniere, Dach, Johnson, Byram and those 3 first round picks from the BJs, Rags and Avs. There’s some serious talent coming. Plus the extra picks from Tampa. Things would be looking good very fast!!! |
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debrincat
Mar 31, 2022 0:44:12 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on Mar 31, 2022 0:44:12 GMT -6
I believe the unofficial name of the rule is the “Detroit” rule. Due to them never winning it. They’ve been bad for like 5-6 years now and they haven’t won the lotto once. And they’ve been the worst team at least 2 times. So hopefully Buffalo stays bad next year and opens up a door for the Hawks, as they cannot get the 1st overall. I believe in 2023 the NJ Devils are up again for it. As it would be 5 years since they’ve drafted Hischer. So unfortunately it helps the Hawks a lot this year. NJ and Buffalo are not eligible to get the 1st pick this year. I do not think the Hawks move anywhere due to the scandal. Maybe unpopular for now. But I think that if the Hawks get a top 5 pick this year. As in 3-5. I would try and trade Dcat there for the pick and another and Kent Johnson. Columbus needs to make the playoffs soon. With Laine and Dcat they’d have a sick 1-2 punch on the wing and pp. Kent Johnson was picked 5th overall last year. So if the Hawks could get those two assets for Dcat, I would gladly do it. And Johnson is a Center which helps the team immensely with the rebuild. Take the best dman with the pick. And hopefully try and get a couple other 1st rounders this year!!! My inquiring mind wants to know if the hawks win the lottery which is lottery protected and the Wild conditional 2nd becomes a 1st will that pick (Wild) then go to Columbus to complete the Jones trade. Valid question. However the pick has to be the Hawks original pick. If the Hawks get a top 2 pick this year, they have the right to keep it and next years Hawks 1st rounder is 100% the BJs. Now, they could always work out a deal with the BJs. But I doubt that’ll happen. If I were the BJs I’d roll the dice and watch the Hawks tank and look to get Bedard or Mishkov a year later!!! |
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