debrincat

[vadarx]

Mar 31, 2022 0:44:12 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 31, 2022 0:08:58 GMT -6 nighbor said:

My inquiring mind wants to know if the hawks win the lottery which is lottery protected and the Wild conditional 2nd becomes a 1st will that pick (Wild) then go to Columbus to complete the Jones trade. 

Valid question. However the pick has to be the Hawks original pick. If the Hawks get a top 2 pick this year, they have the right to keep it and next years Hawks 1st rounder is 100% the BJs.

Now, they could always work out a deal with the BJs. But I doubt that’ll happen. If I were the BJs I’d roll the dice and watch the Hawks tank and look to get Bedard or Mishkov a year later!!!

they have the right to keep it...

if they get #2, do they say "nah. you can have it, c-bus"?

[BigT]

Mar 31, 2022 1:09:51 GMT -6 vadarx said:

Mar 31, 2022 0:44:12 GMT -6 BigT said:

Valid question. However the pick has to be the Hawks original pick. If the Hawks get a top 2 pick this year, they have the right to keep it and next years Hawks 1st rounder is 100% the BJs.

Now, they could always work out a deal with the BJs. But I doubt that’ll happen. If I were the BJs I’d roll the dice and watch the Hawks tank and look to get Bedard or Mishkov a year later!!!

they have the right to keep it...

if they get #2, do they say "nah. you can have it, c-bus"?

I believe they can. It’s just protected. So the Hawks have the option. If this looks like a weak draft, by all means send it to them. I’m thinking the Hawks would rather lose this years pick instead of next years pick!!!

[hsbob]

Mar 30, 2022 17:09:15 GMT -6 mvr said:

You don't know the value of the assets you are getting back.

What are you doing is protecting cap space and maintaining flexibility during a rebuild. The cap space and roster flexibility is the real key here. You don't want big money contracts with the NMC.

The return is the gravy. Hopefully, some of the assets pan out. You have to count on your scouts to do their jobs.

A successful rebuild is five or more years away. Debrincat is turning 25. He will be on the other side of 30 (and likely older) before this team is a contender again (which according to the studies I cited above will be far past his peak productive years).

The only real advantage with keeping him is to maintain fan interest. Debrincat, even without Kane, is good for a few wins a year (which means lower draft positions).

OTH and I had this same semantics back n forth about how we state a player's age to match our narrative,you can say DeBrincat's turning 25 and be correct and I can say DeBrincat was 23 only 4 months ago and also be correct......LOL!


For the umpteenth time,I'd like to watch D-Cat on a real good team the next several years myself and would understand the trade from that viewpoint as well as the admission the team still won't win with him......as it won't with Kane either. If both are kept,the team will continue to win more games than it needs to and it might keep a few more asses in seats.....but you're right both of them let alone one will do nothing but offer me entertainment.

If D-Cat goes then we better see everything that ain't 23 or younger or nailed down like Jones go too IMO but you seem to want to keep some vets or worse yet.....bring in more.....I don't understand that. You thought little of the kid back when you started this thread and what he's done over the last two years (119gms 70gls 120pts) hasn't seemed to impress you much. You said things might be different if he was a point a game player........he's been better than that the last two seasons.


     

[mvr]

Mar 31, 2022 9:31:41 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Mar 30, 2022 17:09:15 GMT -6 mvr said:

You don't know the value of the assets you are getting back.

What are you doing is protecting cap space and maintaining flexibility during a rebuild. The cap space and roster flexibility is the real key here. You don't want big money contracts with the NMC.

The return is the gravy. Hopefully, some of the assets pan out. You have to count on your scouts to do their jobs.

A successful rebuild is five or more years away. Debrincat is turning 25. He will be on the other side of 30 (and likely older) before this team is a contender again (which according to the studies I cited above will be far past his peak productive years).

The only real advantage with keeping him is to maintain fan interest. Debrincat, even without Kane, is good for a few wins a year (which means lower draft positions).

OTH and I had this same semantics back n forth about how we state a player's age to match our narrative,you can say DeBrincat's turning 25 and be correct and I can say DeBrincat was 23 only 4 months ago and also be correct......LOL!


For the umpteenth time,I'd like to watch D-Cat on a real good team the next several years myself and would understand the trade from that viewpoint as well as the admission the team still won't win with him......as it won't with Kane either. If both are kept,the team will continue to win more games than it needs to and it might keep a few more asses in seats.....but you're right both of them let alone one will do nothing but offer me entertainment.

If D-Cat goes then we better see everything that ain't 23 or younger or nailed down like Jones go too IMO but you seem to want to keep some vets or worse yet.....bring in more.....I don't understand that. You thought little of the kid back when you started this thread and what he's done over the last two years (119gms 70gls 120pts) hasn't seemed to impress you much. You said things might be different if he was a point a game player........he's been better than that the last two seasons.


     

I am actually very impressed with Debrincat's growth. 

When I started the thread, he was playing a lazy, disinterested game.  The coach at the time saw this and demoted him to the third line.   

You blame the coach for Debrincat's poor showing that year - I blame the pressure of the contract (and see similarities with Kubalik this year).    Whatever the case, Debrincat is certainly playing much better the past couple of years and is clearly earning his contract.  He is a precision shooter and an elite offensive talent - no question about it,  among the best in the game as a scorer.   

On the other hand,  I will always disagree with you about this kind of player's true value.  I see an average defensive and checking game.   I also see limitations in the player's role because of his size (and his position - winger - the least difficult).   

There is no hypocrisy regarding my feelings about veterans.

As I have argued repeatedly, a rebuilding team needs veterans - especially proven winners - to maintain some stability and sense of purpose.  You don't want kids getting used to losing.   I disagree with the idea of tanking and believe the general manager should make every effort to compete each year. 

But more importantly when rebuilding, the primary focus for every move made should be on the long term.  Until the asset pool is fully re-stocked, the smart approach is to avoid long term, inflexible contracts.   

At this stage, I would only consider adding (either through trade or UFA) players who carry short-term flexible deals (with no conditions).  This is why keeping Toews and Kane potentially beyond this year makes sense to me (as does Phil Kessell and MAF) but holding on to Debrincat does not.   Kane and Toews might take a two or three year deal (with no strings attached).   Debrincat is in line to get a long term big money deal with a NMC.    Everyone sees the player's value, including his agent and the other general managers.   If the Hawks don't pay up, other contenders will without question.


At this stage, the only player I'd consider building around long term is the 21-year-old potential power centre, Kirby Dach.   And my opinion about this player's long term future here is wavouring.   If the right offer comes along for him or Seth Jones........

[BigT]

I think the be all end all with Dcat is simply this. If the is retained. He will need an 8 year deal worth roughly 10 million and a NMC. We all know that’s not the best way to go at the very beginning of rebuild.

Plus, does the kid even want to endure this? Then if he’s retained, does he get the Hawks into a position of picking in a bad spot?

I also understand the concerns of “Is the drafted players going to be as good as Dcat?”. Well, you don’t know that. The goal is to get more young players in here. The more the better. The cupboards are pretty bare here. There’s really one decent prospect in the pipeline.

The only reason for trading guys like him or Hagel is to get many more assets. Asset management is crucial. The more the better in a rebuild. Hawks need to fill the cupboards. Letting the assets here leave with no return is absolutely disastrous.

That’s where I’ll always give Ottawa credit. Sure they’ve been cheap and didn’t wanna pay guys. But they’ve always gotten the most for their assets instead of letting them walk. It’s been painful few times. But they seem to rebuild quickly there.

If the Hawks keep 19/88/12/4. They’ll fade away and the team will still be junk when they go. Use their trade values and get an amazing return. Unpopular? Yes. But in a couple years people will move on and embrace the new guard. Sports is ever changing. Especially with hockey and the salary cap.

If the deal is there for Dcat. I trade him. Especially to get more assets. And good ones at that. Maybe Anaheim or LA or even the BJs will be suitors? We will see. But I fully expect asset management to happen here. If not. It’s a 10+ year rebuild. The cupboards are far too bare to build up newer assets at an alarming rate. They’ll get 1-2 per year. And that’ll take 5 years just to get NHL caliber players. Let alone stars. The goal shouldn’t be to get the be like the Nashville Predators. Competitive, but no stars to get you over the hump!!!

[vadarx]

Mar 31, 2022 8:44:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 31, 2022 1:09:51 GMT -6 vadarx said:

they have the right to keep it...

if they get #2, do they say "nah. you can have it, c-bus"?

I believe they can. It’s just protected. So the Hawks have the option. If this looks like a weak draft, by all means send it to them. I’m thinking the Hawks would rather lose this years pick instead of next years pick!!!

for sure they would. the top 2, maybe even top 3 guys next year could be franchise type players. I think you give it to the jackets this year, unless you get the top pick. I don't think KD is gonna be ok with the optics of giving up the top overall pick for a chance at a top 3 pick next season...

really need them lotto balls to bounce someone else's way this spring...

[hsbob]

Mar 31, 2022 10:10:04 GMT -6 mvr said:

Mar 31, 2022 9:31:41 GMT -6 hsbob said:

OTH and I had this same semantics back n forth about how we state a player's age to match our narrative,you can say DeBrincat's turning 25 and be correct and I can say DeBrincat was 23 only 4 months ago and also be correct......LOL!


For the umpteenth time,I'd like to watch D-Cat on a real good team the next several years myself and would understand the trade from that viewpoint as well as the admission the team still won't win with him......as it won't with Kane either. If both are kept,the team will continue to win more games than it needs to and it might keep a few more asses in seats.....but you're right both of them let alone one will do nothing but offer me entertainment.

If D-Cat goes then we better see everything that ain't 23 or younger or nailed down like Jones go too IMO but you seem to want to keep some vets or worse yet.....bring in more.....I don't understand that. You thought little of the kid back when you started this thread and what he's done over the last two years (119gms 70gls 120pts) hasn't seemed to impress you much. You said things might be different if he was a point a game player........he's been better than that the last two seasons.


     

I am actually very impressed with Debrincat's growth. 

When I started the thread, he was playing a lazy, disinterested game.  The coach at the time saw this and demoted him to the third line.   

You blame the coach for Debrincat's poor showing that year - I blame the pressure of the contract (and see similarities with Kubalik this year).    Whatever the case, Debrincat is certainly playing much better the past couple of years and is clearly earning his contract.  He is a precision shooter and an elite offensive talent - no question about it,  among the best in the game as a scorer.   

On the other hand,  I will always disagree with you about this kind of player's true value.  I see an average defensive and checking game.   I also see limitations in the player's role because of his size (and his position - winger - the least difficult).   

There is no hypocrisy regarding my feelings about veterans.

As I have argued repeatedly, a rebuilding team needs veterans - especially proven winners - to maintain some stability and sense of purpose.  You don't want kids getting used to losing.   I disagree with the idea of tanking and believe the general manager should make every effort to compete each year. 

But more importantly when rebuilding, the primary focus for every move made should be on the long term.  Until the asset pool is fully re-stocked, the smart approach is to avoid long term, inflexible contracts.   

At this stage, I would only consider adding (either through trade or UFA) players who carry short-term flexible deals (with no conditions).  This is why keeping Toews and Kane potentially beyond this year makes sense to me (as does Phil Kessell and MAF) but holding on to Debrincat does not.   Kane and Toews might take a two or three year deal (with no strings attached).   Debrincat is in line to get a long term big money deal with a NMC.    Everyone sees the player's value, including his agent and the other general managers.   If the Hawks don't pay up, other contenders will without question.


At this stage, the only player I'd consider building around long term is the 21-year-old potential power centre, Kirby Dach.   And my opinion about this player's long term future here is wavouring.   If the right offer comes along for him or Seth Jones........

69 goals in his first 2 seasons,FORTY ONE the year before a HC who'll NEVER darken another NHL team's bench ever again puts him on a checking line in a favor of NOlander.....a player you actually liked if I recall. His play before and after that coaching malfeasance proves what a loss that year was for his career stats......18 goals.....can't make this shit up and.....WHO DOES THAT? 

The team's been in no man's land for half a decade now and you're not only keeping Kane,Toews and Jones.....you're bring back MAF..........and you're rebuilding? Phil Fucking Kessel? Other than our BEST BY FAR young forwards like 23yro Hagel and 24yro D-Cat........who else goes in your rebuild?

Mid round picks will not bring the legendary centers and D-men the team needs so desperately.

You're building around a 21yro potential power center? Spits out coffee........LONG TERM?  You make little if any sense these days!

[hsbob]

Mar 31, 2022 10:26:25 GMT -6 BigT said:

I think the be all end all with Dcat is simply this. If the is retained. He will need an 8 year deal worth roughly 10 million and a NMC. We all know that’s not the best way to go at the very beginning of rebuild.

Plus, does the kid even want to endure this? Then if he’s retained, does he get the Hawks into a position of picking in a bad spot?

I also understand the concerns of “Is the drafted players going to be as good as Dcat?”. Well, you don’t know that. The goal is to get more young players in here. The more the better. The cupboards are pretty bare here. There’s really one decent prospect in the pipeline.

The only reason for trading guys like him or Hagel is to get many more assets. Asset management is crucial. The more the better in a rebuild. Hawks need to fill the cupboards. Letting the assets here leave with no return is absolutely disastrous.

That’s where I’ll always give Ottawa credit. Sure they’ve been cheap and didn’t wanna pay guys. But they’ve always gotten the most for their assets instead of letting them walk. It’s been painful few times. But they seem to rebuild quickly there.

If the Hawks keep 19/88/12/4. They’ll fade away and the team will still be junk when they go. Use their trade values and get an amazing return. Unpopular? Yes. But in a couple years people will move on and embrace the new guard. Sports is ever changing. Especially with hockey and the salary cap.

If the deal is there for Dcat. I trade him. Especially to get more assets. And good ones at that. Maybe Anaheim or LA or even the BJs will be suitors? We will see. But I fully expect asset management to happen here. If not. It’s a 10+ year rebuild. The cupboards are far too bare to build up newer assets at an alarming rate. They’ll get 1-2 per year. And that’ll take 5 years just to get NHL caliber players. Let alone stars. The goal shouldn’t be to get the be like the Nashville Predators. Competitive, but no stars to get you over the hump!!!

If a team's best young players are too old for a rebuild @ 23 and 24,then everything that's not nailed down (Jones,Johnson and Connolly) has to go! Speaking of Jones,Johnson and Connolly,EIGHTEEN MILLION dollars goes to the legendary trio next year but we'll hear next to nothing about that $$$ since only great cup winner's contracts get railed on. Crawford wasn't worth 3 1/2M but MAF's worth 7.....shit like that. Get rid of DeBrincat so we can spend the $$$ like that?

We'll have young guys in a few years that'll make us forget about the cup winners,some have already forgotten and others must be reading comic books. 

The Preds FO has done ten times the job ours has and they are a competitive team,they do also need a star or two.....should be easy......I hear scoring wingers are easy to find. 

I'm fine if Kane,Toews and D-Cat all find greener pastures at this point,especially since it sounds like this one upcoming magical draft will have replacements for all of em and a top pair D-Man to boot..........it better. 

[mvr]

Apr 1, 2022 6:51:39 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Mar 31, 2022 10:10:04 GMT -6 mvr said:

I am actually very impressed with Debrincat's growth. 

When I started the thread, he was playing a lazy, disinterested game.  The coach at the time saw this and demoted him to the third line.   

You blame the coach for Debrincat's poor showing that year - I blame the pressure of the contract (and see similarities with Kubalik this year).    Whatever the case, Debrincat is certainly playing much better the past couple of years and is clearly earning his contract.  He is a precision shooter and an elite offensive talent - no question about it,  among the best in the game as a scorer.   

On the other hand,  I will always disagree with you about this kind of player's true value.  I see an average defensive and checking game.   I also see limitations in the player's role because of his size (and his position - winger - the least difficult).   

There is no hypocrisy regarding my feelings about veterans.

As I have argued repeatedly, a rebuilding team needs veterans - especially proven winners - to maintain some stability and sense of purpose.  You don't want kids getting used to losing.   I disagree with the idea of tanking and believe the general manager should make every effort to compete each year. 

But more importantly when rebuilding, the primary focus for every move made should be on the long term.  Until the asset pool is fully re-stocked, the smart approach is to avoid long term, inflexible contracts.   

At this stage, I would only consider adding (either through trade or UFA) players who carry short-term flexible deals (with no conditions).  This is why keeping Toews and Kane potentially beyond this year makes sense to me (as does Phil Kessell and MAF) but holding on to Debrincat does not.   Kane and Toews might take a two or three year deal (with no strings attached).   Debrincat is in line to get a long term big money deal with a NMC.    Everyone sees the player's value, including his agent and the other general managers.   If the Hawks don't pay up, other contenders will without question.


At this stage, the only player I'd consider building around long term is the 21-year-old potential power centre, Kirby Dach.   And my opinion about this player's long term future here is wavouring.   If the right offer comes along for him or Seth Jones........

69 goals in his first 2 seasons,FORTY ONE the year before a HC who'll NEVER darken another NHL team's bench ever again puts him on a checking line in a favor of NOlander.....a player you actually liked if I recall. His play before and after that coaching malfeasance proves what a loss that year was for his career stats......18 goals.....can't make this shit up and.....WHO DOES THAT? 

The team's been in no man's land for half a decade now and you're not only keeping Kane,Toews and Jones.....you're bring back MAF..........and you're rebuilding? Phil Fucking Kessel? Other than our BEST BY FAR young forwards like 23yro Hagel and 24yro D-Cat........who else goes in your rebuild?

Mid round picks will not bring the legendary centers and D-men the team needs so desperately.

You're building around a 21yro potential power center? Spits out coffee........LONG TERM?  You make little if any sense these days!

No, Bob, once again, you raise the strawman. I never liked Nylander and did not support that trade.

I did understand the move, however. The team was loaded on the right side at defence. The Jokerman at the time was the third best of the prospects (after Mitchell and Boquist). You trade from a position of strength.

If Nylander had not lost a year of development because of injury, he might have been useful. He had skill. But he is not my type of player, and you know that (and for that matter, neither is Jokiharju). Why suggest otherwise?

As it stands, the only player on the present roster who is in my "rebuild" is Dach (and he might not be in long term plans either - we have to patient with him). The rest will have to be found. Perhaps there is one or more in the system.

Any veteran player acquired over the next few years is a placeholder Aucoin/Cullimore type. They are not part of the long term solution. But someone has to play while the young players develop in Rockford and elsewhere. I don't believe in rushing prospects. The only Rockford player who needs to be on the roster next year is Wyatt Kalnyuk, and that's only because he could be lost to waivers. Ian Mitchell is likely also close.

Debrincat played terribly that year the coach put him on a checking line. He stayed on the perimeter and did not engage. At the start of the year, Debrincat was on the first line and the first unit powerplay. He had plenty of opportunities. The player was not producing. He looked distracted. This situation lasted for weeks.

This is when I started the thread.

We all know that Kubalik was a 30-plus goal scorer two years ago. Now he is playing 13 minutes or less a game (and on the second unit powerplay). Is Kubalik's decline because of bad coaching or bad play? If Kubalik received more opportunities (with better players and on the first unit powerplay), obviously he would score more. But I have seen enough. To my mind, the coach is handling this player exactly the right way. Kubalik is not engaging with the play. He is mailing it in. He does not deserve any more than he is getting. On the other hand, Dylan Strome, once benched for lacklustre play, is now firmly established on the first line because he has renewed focus and energy. He played a lazy game most of last year and deservedly did not play in the top six.

Players should earn their icetime.

Debrincat and Strome are now earning theirs again although I would still like to see both start producing against the bigger defensive teams such as St. Louis or Florida. Are they capable? Perhaps, yes, with a better supporting cast.

But this team needs help everywhere, and it is years away. There is zero sense investing long term (with NMC) in any player right now.

[hsbob]

Apr 1, 2022 7:58:09 GMT -6 mvr said:

Apr 1, 2022 6:51:39 GMT -6 hsbob said:

69 goals in his first 2 seasons,FORTY ONE the year before a HC who'll NEVER darken another NHL team's bench ever again puts him on a checking line in a favor of NOlander.....a player you actually liked if I recall. His play before and after that coaching malfeasance proves what a loss that year was for his career stats......18 goals.....can't make this shit up and.....WHO DOES THAT? 

The team's been in no man's land for half a decade now and you're not only keeping Kane,Toews and Jones.....you're bring back MAF..........and you're rebuilding? Phil Fucking Kessel? Other than our BEST BY FAR young forwards like 23yro Hagel and 24yro D-Cat........who else goes in your rebuild?

Mid round picks will not bring the legendary centers and D-men the team needs so desperately.

You're building around a 21yro potential power center? Spits out coffee........LONG TERM?  You make little if any sense these days!

No, Bob, once again, you raise the strawman. I never liked Nylander and did not support that trade.

I did understand the move, however. The team was loaded on the right side at defence. The Jokerman at the time was the third best of the prospects (after Mitchell and Boquist). You trade from a position of strength.

If Nylander had not lost a year of development because of injury, he might have been useful. He had skill. But he is not my type of player, and you know that (and for that matter, neither is Jokiharju). Why suggest otherwise?

As it stands, the only player on the present roster who is in my "rebuild" is Dach (and he might not be in long term plans either - we have to patient with him). The rest will have to be found. Perhaps there is one or more in the system.

Any veteran player acquired over the next few years is a placeholder Aucoin/Cullimore type. They are not part of the long term solution. But someone has to play while the young players develop in Rockford and elsewhere. I don't believe in rushing prospects. The only Rockford player who needs to be on the roster next year is Wyatt Kalnyuk, and that's only because he could be lost to waivers. Ian Mitchell is likely also close.

Debrincat played terribly that year the coach put him on a checking line. He stayed on the perimeter and did not engage. At the start of the year, Debrincat was on the first line and the first unit powerplay. He had plenty of opportunities. The player was not producing. He looked distracted. This situation lasted for weeks.

This is when I started the thread.

We all know that Kubalik was a 30-plus goal scorer two years ago. Now he is playing 13 minutes or less a game (and on the second unit powerplay). Is Kubalik's decline because of bad coaching or bad play? If Kubalik received more opportunities (with better players and on the first unit powerplay), obviously he would score more. But I have seen enough. To my mind, the coach is handling this player exactly the right way. Kubalik is not engaging with the play. He is mailing it in. He does not deserve any more than he is getting. On the other hand, Dylan Strome, once benched for lacklustre play, is now firmly established on the first line because he has renewed focus and energy. He played a lazy game most of last year and deservedly did not play in the top six.

Players should earn their icetime.

Debrincat and Strome are now earning theirs again although I would still like to see both start producing against the bigger defensive teams such as St. Louis or Florida. Are they capable? Perhaps, yes, with a better supporting cast.

But this team needs help everywhere, and it is years away. There is zero sense investing long term (with NMC) in any player right now.

Anyone who thought the 6' 190lb 19yro D-Man,who made Q's opening night roster was the team's 3rd best prospect back in the summer of '19' was as misguided as the DUMBASS who traded him and the HC who hated him..........Joker's play since leaves NO doubt......the other two are still in the A. Jokiharju is a great example of another talented young player Potter didn't like,as soon as he got his undeserved  position, he started cutting the kid's minutes,benching him and then sent him down along with a stupid and unnecessary comment about his body. Support the mistreatment(they spread rumors of a bad attitude) of Joker all you want, or the braindead checking role for a 41 goal scorer or the egomaniacal benching of Strome......the play of these talented young players speaks for itself when used properly!

What didn't you like about Joker's game and do you like it more now that he's a top pair D-Man @22?

 
  

[BigT]

Apr 1, 2022 7:24:27 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Mar 31, 2022 10:26:25 GMT -6 BigT said:

I think the be all end all with Dcat is simply this. If the is retained. He will need an 8 year deal worth roughly 10 million and a NMC. We all know that’s not the best way to go at the very beginning of rebuild.

Plus, does the kid even want to endure this? Then if he’s retained, does he get the Hawks into a position of picking in a bad spot?

I also understand the concerns of “Is the drafted players going to be as good as Dcat?”. Well, you don’t know that. The goal is to get more young players in here. The more the better. The cupboards are pretty bare here. There’s really one decent prospect in the pipeline.

The only reason for trading guys like him or Hagel is to get many more assets. Asset management is crucial. The more the better in a rebuild. Hawks need to fill the cupboards. Letting the assets here leave with no return is absolutely disastrous.

That’s where I’ll always give Ottawa credit. Sure they’ve been cheap and didn’t wanna pay guys. But they’ve always gotten the most for their assets instead of letting them walk. It’s been painful few times. But they seem to rebuild quickly there.

If the Hawks keep 19/88/12/4. They’ll fade away and the team will still be junk when they go. Use their trade values and get an amazing return. Unpopular? Yes. But in a couple years people will move on and embrace the new guard. Sports is ever changing. Especially with hockey and the salary cap.

If the deal is there for Dcat. I trade him. Especially to get more assets. And good ones at that. Maybe Anaheim or LA or even the BJs will be suitors? We will see. But I fully expect asset management to happen here. If not. It’s a 10+ year rebuild. The cupboards are far too bare to build up newer assets at an alarming rate. They’ll get 1-2 per year. And that’ll take 5 years just to get NHL caliber players. Let alone stars. The goal shouldn’t be to get the be like the Nashville Predators. Competitive, but no stars to get you over the hump!!!

If a team's best young players are too old for a rebuild @ 23 and 24,then everything that's not nailed down (Jones,Johnson and Connolly) has to go! Speaking of Jones,Johnson and Connolly,EIGHTEEN MILLION dollars goes to the legendary trio next year but we'll hear next to nothing about that $$$ since only great cup winner's contracts get railed on. Crawford wasn't worth 3 1/2M but MAF's worth 7.....shit like that. Get rid of DeBrincat so we can spend the $$$ like that?

We'll have young guys in a few years that'll make us forget about the cup winners,some have already forgotten and others must be reading comic books. 

The Preds FO has done ten times the job ours has and they are a competitive team,they do also need a star or two.....should be easy......I hear scoring wingers are easy to find. 

I'm fine if Kane,Toews and D-Cat all find greener pastures at this point,especially since it sounds like this one upcoming magical draft will have replacements for all of em and a top pair D-Man to boot..........it better. 

I fully understand your grievances with this team. However, like I said. I think it’s better to have more assets than not. If the Hawks take the “honest” way and keep they’re 4 guys. They pick where they’ve been picking the last few years and that won’t work. So when they finally leave or are done. The rebuild truly begins. So you’d be looking at another 3-4 years of mediocrity, then a 10 year rebuild. I’m not saying that lightly either. Or to make it sound worse. Gotta utilize every asset while you can.

I love Dcat and was probably his first fan on these boards. I remember sticking up for him when he didn’t make USA Jr squad and why he had a less than stellar rookie camp. He played a lot of hockey that spring and was burnt out. If I can get 2-3 very good top notch assets for him. I have to do it. We need a team and not a few stars. Now if the Hawks get 2-3 good assets for all those guys. The rebuild goes much quicker.

This is why I bring up Ottawa. A couple years back they had 3 first round picks and they also had 3 2nd round picks. They had 2 first rounders in 2018. And would of had 2 in 2019 but they like the Hawks, trades that pick which became Bowen Byram in Matt Duchene trade. So they traded Pageau who was a fan favourite and young, for a 1st and a 2nd. They’re doing fine without him.

I feel the Hawks could be in amazing shape if they utilize they’re assets. What does keeping them really do besides keep some fans happy about nostalgia? I love what those players have done, and do. But it’s over. Time to move on!!!

[Nikos]

Apr 1, 2022 8:40:23 GMT -6 BigT said:

Apr 1, 2022 7:24:27 GMT -6 hsbob said:

If a team's best young players are too old for a rebuild @ 23 and 24,then everything that's not nailed down (Jones,Johnson and Connolly) has to go! Speaking of Jones,Johnson and Connolly,EIGHTEEN MILLION dollars goes to the legendary trio next year but we'll hear next to nothing about that $$$ since only great cup winner's contracts get railed on. Crawford wasn't worth 3 1/2M but MAF's worth 7.....shit like that. Get rid of DeBrincat so we can spend the $$$ like that?

We'll have young guys in a few years that'll make us forget about the cup winners,some have already forgotten and others must be reading comic books. 

The Preds FO has done ten times the job ours has and they are a competitive team,they do also need a star or two.....should be easy......I hear scoring wingers are easy to find. 

I'm fine if Kane,Toews and D-Cat all find greener pastures at this point,especially since it sounds like this one upcoming magical draft will have replacements for all of em and a top pair D-Man to boot..........it better. 

I fully understand your grievances with this team. However, like I said. I think it’s better to have more assets than not. If the Hawks take the “honest” way and keep they’re 4 guys. They pick where they’ve been picking the last few years and that won’t work. So when they finally leave or are done. The rebuild truly begins. So you’d be looking at another 3-4 years of mediocrity, then a 10 year rebuild. I’m not saying that lightly either. Or to make it sound worse. Gotta utilize every asset while you can.

I love Dcat and was probably his first fan on these boards. I remember sticking up for him when he didn’t make USA Jr squad and why he had a less than stellar rookie camp. He played a lot of hockey that spring and was burnt out. If I can get 2-3 very good top notch assets for him. I have to do it. We need a team and not a few stars. Now if the Hawks get 2-3 good assets for all those guys. The rebuild goes much quicker.

This is why I bring up Ottawa. A couple years back they had 3 first round picks and they also had 3 2nd round picks. They had 2 first rounders in 2018. And would of had 2 in 2019 but they like the Hawks, trades that pick which became Bowen Byram in Matt Duchene trade. So they traded Pageau who was a fan favourite and young, for a 1st and a 2nd. They’re doing fine without him.

I feel the Hawks could be in amazing shape if they utilize they’re assets. What does keeping them really do besides keep some fans happy about nostalgia? I love what those players have done, and do. But it’s over. Time to move on!!!

The Kraken with their high pick last year (2nd overall) and another one coming this year plus the "zillion" picks over the next few years are already in a better position than the Hawks from a rebuild perspective. That is what the Hawks have become a borderline expansion team. To your point T get the assets and let's hope KD and MaCaiver know what they are doing. Sure "hate" to see the Cat go, we do not have another player like him on the team right now and not even close. I have said it before Bowman should arrested for what he did to this team, organization and fan base.

[mvr]

Apr 1, 2022 8:21:15 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Apr 1, 2022 7:58:09 GMT -6 mvr said:

No, Bob, once again, you raise the strawman. I never liked Nylander and did not support that trade.

I did understand the move, however. The team was loaded on the right side at defence. The Jokerman at the time was the third best of the prospects (after Mitchell and Boquist). You trade from a position of strength.

If Nylander had not lost a year of development because of injury, he might have been useful. He had skill. But he is not my type of player, and you know that (and for that matter, neither is Jokiharju). Why suggest otherwise?

As it stands, the only player on the present roster who is in my "rebuild" is Dach (and he might not be in long term plans either - we have to patient with him). The rest will have to be found. Perhaps there is one or more in the system.

Any veteran player acquired over the next few years is a placeholder Aucoin/Cullimore type. They are not part of the long term solution. But someone has to play while the young players develop in Rockford and elsewhere. I don't believe in rushing prospects. The only Rockford player who needs to be on the roster next year is Wyatt Kalnyuk, and that's only because he could be lost to waivers. Ian Mitchell is likely also close.

Debrincat played terribly that year the coach put him on a checking line. He stayed on the perimeter and did not engage. At the start of the year, Debrincat was on the first line and the first unit powerplay. He had plenty of opportunities. The player was not producing. He looked distracted. This situation lasted for weeks.

This is when I started the thread.

We all know that Kubalik was a 30-plus goal scorer two years ago. Now he is playing 13 minutes or less a game (and on the second unit powerplay). Is Kubalik's decline because of bad coaching or bad play? If Kubalik received more opportunities (with better players and on the first unit powerplay), obviously he would score more. But I have seen enough. To my mind, the coach is handling this player exactly the right way. Kubalik is not engaging with the play. He is mailing it in. He does not deserve any more than he is getting. On the other hand, Dylan Strome, once benched for lacklustre play, is now firmly established on the first line because he has renewed focus and energy. He played a lazy game most of last year and deservedly did not play in the top six.

Players should earn their icetime.

Debrincat and Strome are now earning theirs again although I would still like to see both start producing against the bigger defensive teams such as St. Louis or Florida. Are they capable? Perhaps, yes, with a better supporting cast.

But this team needs help everywhere, and it is years away. There is zero sense investing long term (with NMC) in any player right now.

Anyone who thought the 6' 190lb 19yro D-Man,who made Q's opening night roster was the team's 3rd best prospect back in the summer of '19' was as misguided as the DUMBASS who traded him and the HC who hated him..........Joker's play since leaves NO doubt......the other two are still in the A. Jokiharju is a great example of another talented young player Potter didn't like,as soon as he got his undeserved  position, he started cutting the kid's minutes,benching him and then sent him down along with a stupid and unnecessary comment about his body. Support the mistreatment(they spread rumors of a bad attitude) of Joker all you want, or the braindead checking role for a 41 goal scorer or the egomaniacal benching of Strome......the play of these talented young players speaks for itself when used properly!

What didn't you like about Joker's game and do you like it more now that he's a top pair D-Man @22?

 
  

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

[mvr]

Apr 1, 2022 9:57:45 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Apr 1, 2022 8:40:23 GMT -6 BigT said:

I fully understand your grievances with this team. However, like I said. I think it’s better to have more assets than not. If the Hawks take the “honest” way and keep they’re 4 guys. They pick where they’ve been picking the last few years and that won’t work. So when they finally leave or are done. The rebuild truly begins. So you’d be looking at another 3-4 years of mediocrity, then a 10 year rebuild. I’m not saying that lightly either. Or to make it sound worse. Gotta utilize every asset while you can.

I love Dcat and was probably his first fan on these boards. I remember sticking up for him when he didn’t make USA Jr squad and why he had a less than stellar rookie camp. He played a lot of hockey that spring and was burnt out. If I can get 2-3 very good top notch assets for him. I have to do it. We need a team and not a few stars. Now if the Hawks get 2-3 good assets for all those guys. The rebuild goes much quicker.

This is why I bring up Ottawa. A couple years back they had 3 first round picks and they also had 3 2nd round picks. They had 2 first rounders in 2018. And would of had 2 in 2019 but they like the Hawks, trades that pick which became Bowen Byram in Matt Duchene trade. So they traded Pageau who was a fan favourite and young, for a 1st and a 2nd. They’re doing fine without him.

I feel the Hawks could be in amazing shape if they utilize they’re assets. What does keeping them really do besides keep some fans happy about nostalgia? I love what those players have done, and do. But it’s over. Time to move on!!!

The Kraken with their high pick last year (2nd overall) and another one coming this year plus the "zillion" picks over the next few years are already in a better position than the Hawks from a rebuild perspective. That is what the Hawks have become a borderline expansion team. To your point T get the assets and let's hope KD and MaCaiver know what they are doing. Sure "hate" to see the Cat go, we do not have another player like him on the team right now and not even close. I have said it before Bowman should arrested for what he did to this team, organization and fan base.

The Hawks are in worse shape right now than most expansion teams.  They lack high end picks.  Their prospect base is mediocre at best.   Most of their best players are old and/or expensive.  They really only have one high-end trade chip - Debrincat.

[BigT]

Apr 1, 2022 9:57:45 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Apr 1, 2022 8:40:23 GMT -6 BigT said:

I fully understand your grievances with this team. However, like I said. I think it’s better to have more assets than not. If the Hawks take the “honest” way and keep they’re 4 guys. They pick where they’ve been picking the last few years and that won’t work. So when they finally leave or are done. The rebuild truly begins. So you’d be looking at another 3-4 years of mediocrity, then a 10 year rebuild. I’m not saying that lightly either. Or to make it sound worse. Gotta utilize every asset while you can.

I love Dcat and was probably his first fan on these boards. I remember sticking up for him when he didn’t make USA Jr squad and why he had a less than stellar rookie camp. He played a lot of hockey that spring and was burnt out. If I can get 2-3 very good top notch assets for him. I have to do it. We need a team and not a few stars. Now if the Hawks get 2-3 good assets for all those guys. The rebuild goes much quicker.

This is why I bring up Ottawa. A couple years back they had 3 first round picks and they also had 3 2nd round picks. They had 2 first rounders in 2018. And would of had 2 in 2019 but they like the Hawks, trades that pick which became Bowen Byram in Matt Duchene trade. So they traded Pageau who was a fan favourite and young, for a 1st and a 2nd. They’re doing fine without him.

I feel the Hawks could be in amazing shape if they utilize they’re assets. What does keeping them really do besides keep some fans happy about nostalgia? I love what those players have done, and do. But it’s over. Time to move on!!!

The Kraken with their high pick last year (2nd overall) and another one coming this year plus the "zillion" picks over the next few years are already in a better position than the Hawks from a rebuild perspective. That is what the Hawks have become a borderline expansion team. To your point T get the assets and let's hope KD and MaCaiver know what they are doing. Sure "hate" to see the Cat go, we do not have another player like him on the team right now and not even close. I have said it before Bowman should arrested for what he did to this team, organization and fan base.

I can’t like your last sentence enough. It’s clear as a summer morning on the prairies that I didn’t care for the guys work. But it’s really bad here and has been for some time. He was a fraud from day one. It’s been proven. Hawks were wearing thin in 2015. Won the Cup on the backs of 5-6 guys. Only played 4 D. Oduya couldn’t even hold a stick at the end. So they ended up being down to 3.5 D. All his terrible moves showed up that year, and in 2016 moving forward was the worst mismanagement of a team the world has seen.

But we’ve got another chance to see it through. Hopefully these are the guys who'll turn this around!!!

[Nikos]

Apr 1, 2022 12:14:33 GMT -6 BigT said:

Apr 1, 2022 9:57:45 GMT -6 Nikos said:

The Kraken with their high pick last year (2nd overall) and another one coming this year plus the "zillion" picks over the next few years are already in a better position than the Hawks from a rebuild perspective. That is what the Hawks have become a borderline expansion team. To your point T get the assets and let's hope KD and MaCaiver know what they are doing. Sure "hate" to see the Cat go, we do not have another player like him on the team right now and not even close. I have said it before Bowman should arrested for what he did to this team, organization and fan base.

I can’t like your last sentence enough. It’s clear as a summer morning on the prairies that I didn’t care for the guys work. But it’s really bad here and has been for some time. He was a fraud from day one. It’s been proven. Hawks were wearing thin in 2015. Won the Cup on the backs of 5-6 guys. Only played 4 D. Oduya couldn’t even hold a stick at the end. So they ended up being down to 3.5 D. All his terrible moves showed up that year, and in 2016 moving forward was the worst mismanagement of a team the world has seen.

But we’ve got another chance to see it through. Hopefully these are the guys who'll turn this around!!!

Another thought, if it weren't for the Beach scandal chances are he might still be the GM right now, although you would think after the teams showing this year he was probably looking at getting the boot, but you never know with his Dad still in the organization, (Is he still with the front office?), not 100% sure.

[hsbob]

Apr 1, 2022 13:06:00 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Apr 1, 2022 12:14:33 GMT -6 BigT said:

I can’t like your last sentence enough. It’s clear as a summer morning on the prairies that I didn’t care for the guys work. But it’s really bad here and has been for some time. He was a fraud from day one. It’s been proven. Hawks were wearing thin in 2015. Won the Cup on the backs of 5-6 guys. Only played 4 D. Oduya couldn’t even hold a stick at the end. So they ended up being down to 3.5 D. All his terrible moves showed up that year, and in 2016 moving forward was the worst mismanagement of a team the world has seen.

But we’ve got another chance to see it through. Hopefully these are the guys who'll turn this around!!!

Another thought, if it weren't for the Beach scandal chances are he might still be the GM right now, although you would think after the teams showing this year he was probably looking at getting the boot, but you never know with his Dad still in the organization, (Is he still with the front office?), not 100% sure.

Danny loves DUMBASS,he'd be here for sure w/o the scandal.......for sure. Danny looked devastated in the presser after the report and went MILES out of his way to paint DUMBASS in the best light possible. It's still not out of the realm of possibility he returns after he's cleared,the Pres of hockey opps position is still waiting.   

[BigT]

Apr 2, 2022 8:25:35 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Apr 1, 2022 13:06:00 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Another thought, if it weren't for the Beach scandal chances are he might still be the GM right now, although you would think after the teams showing this year he was probably looking at getting the boot, but you never know with his Dad still in the organization, (Is he still with the front office?), not 100% sure.

Danny loves DUMBASS,he'd be here for sure w/o the scandal.......for sure. Danny looked devastated in the presser after the report and went MILES out of his way to paint DUMBASS in the best light possible. It's still not out of the realm of possibility he returns after he's cleared,the Pres of hockey opps position is still waiting.   

Bob, I fear you’re right. Everything is adding up. Use the kid to start the rebuild. Shitcan him when things get rough. Scambo is the bird of hell waiting in the presidents wing. His old man is here still, and I’d have to think he becomes like Pully.

However I hope I’m wrong. If Scambo has anything to do with the Hawks. I’m officially done with them!!!

[hsbob]

Apr 1, 2022 10:01:01 GMT -6 mvr said:

Apr 1, 2022 8:21:15 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Anyone who thought the 6' 190lb 19yro D-Man,who made Q's opening night roster was the team's 3rd best prospect back in the summer of '19' was as misguided as the DUMBASS who traded him and the HC who hated him..........Joker's play since leaves NO doubt......the other two are still in the A. Jokiharju is a great example of another talented young player Potter didn't like,as soon as he got his undeserved  position, he started cutting the kid's minutes,benching him and then sent him down along with a stupid and unnecessary comment about his body. Support the mistreatment(they spread rumors of a bad attitude) of Joker all you want, or the braindead checking role for a 41 goal scorer or the egomaniacal benching of Strome......the play of these talented young players speaks for itself when used properly!

What didn't you like about Joker's game and do you like it more now that he's a top pair D-Man @22?

 
  

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

There's absolutely no doubt that DUMBASS and Harry Potter figured they had three better young D-men but DUMBASS and Harry Potter were obviously wrong!
Boqvist can produce some O in a sheltered,bottom-pair/PP role like Clmbs has him in but he remains,small,fragile,injury prone and weak in his own end,Henri Jokiharju plays top pair minutes @22. He's a nice accent to the more offensive Dahlin and will give a team around 20pts while being responsible and playing in all situations.........the 'Joker' is easily the best of that group so far IMO.

The Hawks could still see a few starters from their group of D prospects but veterans Murphy,McCabe,the Jones' and Stillman will leave little room for the kids again next year.........a rebuilding year........and the beat goes on. 

[mvr]

I think Mitchell is pretty much a lock to make the team next year (on the right side, third pairing, with Seth Jones and Connor Murphy ahead of him).

As it stands, the coach will then choose one of Galvas, Kalnyuk or Beaudin for the left. Galvas might have the edge right now, although Kalnyuk will not be waivers exempt next year (and really should be traded). Beaudin seems to have taken a big step back. None of these prospects excite me, though conceivably, one might top out as a marginal second pairing defender.

C. Jones and Stillman top out as third-pairing options. There is nobody in the lineup or system capable of playing the first pairing role, although McCabe might win that job by default.

If Davidson does move out Debrincat this summer, part of the return should be a young left-shot defender projected to play on the first pairing. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, Colorado and Los Angeles all have near-NHL ready prospects who conceivably could fill this role.

[OldTimeHawky]

Apr 2, 2022 10:29:02 GMT -6 mvr said:

I think Mitchell is pretty much a lock to make the team next year (on the right side, third pairing, with Seth Jones and Connor Murphy ahead of him).

As it stands, the coach will then choose one of Galvas, Kalnyuk or Beaudin for the left. Galvas might have the edge right now, although Kalnyuk will not be waivers exempt next year (and really should be traded). Beaudin seems to have taken a big step back. None of these prospects excite me, though conceivably, one might top out as a marginal second pairing defender.

C. Jones and Stillman top out as third-pairing options. There is nobody in the lineup or system capable of playing the first pairing role, although McCabe might win that job by default.

If Davidson does move out Debrincat this summer, part of the return should be a young left-shot defender projected to play on the first pairing. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, Colorado and Los Angeles all have near-NHL ready prospects who conceivably could fill this role.

Mitchell or Regula should be the 3rd after Seth and Murphy but I'd put Phillips ahead of Galvis, both are good skaters but Phillips is 6'3" 200+lbs, that's 40+lbs on Galvas, plus he's scoring and putting up points.

Kalynuk will be 25 soon and hasn't progressed, same with Beaudin, might be time to move on. Caleb is inconsistent but if he'll take a cheap show me deal him and Stillman can be in the 6-7 spot.

If Debrincat is traded they better get a young #2 left handed dman, or potential #2 with more assets. If Kane goes it should bring back a young center like Lafreniere and assets.

The Rangers offered Kakko, a big Russian winger they picked in the top10, and a smaller offensive right handed swedish dman they drafted late in the first. They're now open to moving Lafreniere so he should be on Davidsons radar.

[mvr]

Apr 2, 2022 12:58:32 GMT -6 OldTimeHawky said:

Apr 2, 2022 10:29:02 GMT -6 mvr said:

I think Mitchell is pretty much a lock to make the team next year (on the right side, third pairing, with Seth Jones and Connor Murphy ahead of him).

As it stands, the coach will then choose one of Galvas, Kalnyuk or Beaudin for the left. Galvas might have the edge right now, although Kalnyuk will not be waivers exempt next year (and really should be traded). Beaudin seems to have taken a big step back. None of these prospects excite me, though conceivably, one might top out as a marginal second pairing defender.

C. Jones and Stillman top out as third-pairing options. There is nobody in the lineup or system capable of playing the first pairing role, although McCabe might win that job by default.

If Davidson does move out Debrincat this summer, part of the return should be a young left-shot defender projected to play on the first pairing. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, Colorado and Los Angeles all have near-NHL ready prospects who conceivably could fill this role.

Mitchell or Regula should be the 3rd after Seth and Murphy but I'd put Phillips ahead of Galvis, both are good skaters but Phillips is 6'3" 200+lbs, that's 40+lbs on Galvas, plus he's scoring and putting up points.

Kalynuk will be 25 soon and hasn't progressed, same with Beaudin, might be time to move on. Caleb is inconsistent but if he'll take a cheap show me deal him and Stillman can be in the 6-7 spot.

If Debrincat is traded they better get a young #2 left handed dman, or potential #2 with more assets. If Kane goes it should bring back a young center like Lafreniere and assets.

The Rangers offered Kakko, a big Russian winger they picked in the top10, and a smaller offensive right handed swedish dman they drafted late in the first. They're now open to moving Lafreniere so he should be on Davidsons radar.

Vlasic might end up being the best of the bunch.  At least he has some size.   I had high hopes for the defence a few years back.  None have developed effectively to this point.  Defence is a very difficult position.   Smart teams load up on defence every draft.

[nighbor]

Apr 1, 2022 10:01:01 GMT -6 mvr said:

Apr 1, 2022 8:21:15 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Anyone who thought the 6' 190lb 19yro D-Man,who made Q's opening night roster was the team's 3rd best prospect back in the summer of '19' was as misguided as the DUMBASS who traded him and the HC who hated him..........Joker's play since leaves NO doubt......the other two are still in the A. Jokiharju is a great example of another talented young player Potter didn't like,as soon as he got his undeserved  position, he started cutting the kid's minutes,benching him and then sent him down along with a stupid and unnecessary comment about his body. Support the mistreatment(they spread rumors of a bad attitude) of Joker all you want, or the braindead checking role for a 41 goal scorer or the egomaniacal benching of Strome......the play of these talented young players speaks for itself when used properly!

What didn't you like about Joker's game and do you like it more now that he's a top pair D-Man @22?

 
  

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

Almost from the time Boqvist appeared in a Blackhawk jersey he was considered another of Stan's failures and fans wanted him gone.  With all the bad comments he received we are fortunate we didn't have to eat half his contract.  Yes he should have been in that trade because it was the only way we were going to get rid of him.

 

[OldTimeHawky]

Apr 2, 2022 23:59:10 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Apr 1, 2022 10:01:01 GMT -6 mvr said:

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

Almost from the time Boqvist appeared in a Blackhawk jersey he was considered another of Stan's failures and fans wanted him gone.  With all the bad comments he received we are fortunate we didn't have to eat half his contract.  Yes he should have been in that trade because it was the only way we were going to get rid of him.

 

Probably because he had a concussion his draft year and two more the next season in the OHL, didn't help he was rushed and looked bad playing on the top4.

Plus most of us wanted a big dman like Dobson or Bouchard.

And he's on his ELC so I don't think they could've retained half.

[vadarx]

Apr 2, 2022 23:59:10 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Apr 1, 2022 10:01:01 GMT -6 mvr said:

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

Almost from the time Boqvist appeared in a Blackhawk jersey he was considered another of Stan's failures and fans wanted him gone.  With all the bad comments he received we are fortunate we didn't have to eat half his contract.  Yes he should have been in that trade because it was the only way we were going to get rid of him.

 

I was, admittedly, pissed when they took him with their top pick in Dallas. but, I tried to give him a chance and would've kept trying had he not been moved in the Jones deal. his boss, one Stanley Bowman, totally screwed him as far as his early career goes. he had no business being brought in the way he was. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy and have a decent NHL career at this point.

dumb pick to begin with, made worse by his superiors rushing him into a spot he wasn't ready for, and then one upped in the stupidity department when he was bailed on at a young age for a player that the team didn't need...

I'm so glad Bowman is gone.

[Tater]

Apr 3, 2022 1:07:50 GMT -6 vadarx said:

<abbr data-timestamp="1648969670000" title="Apr 3, 2022 2:07:50 GMT -5" class="o-timestamp time">Apr 3, 2022 2:07:50 GMT -5</abbr> vadarx said:
 
I was, admittedly, pissed when they took him with their top pick in Dallas. but, I tried to give him a chance and would've kept trying had he not been moved in the Jones deal. his boss, one Stanley Bowman, totally screwed him as far as his early career goes. he had no business being brought in the way he was. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy and have a decent NHL career at this point.

dumb pick to begin with, made worse by his superiors rushing him into a spot he wasn't ready for, and then one upped in the stupidity department when he was bailed on at a young age for a player that the team didn't need...

I'm so glad Bowman is gone.

Who did they get for him? I forgot already.

[vadarx]

Apr 3, 2022 1:51:31 GMT -6 Tater said:

Apr 3, 2022 1:07:50 GMT -6 vadarx said:

<abbr data-timestamp="1648969670000" title="Apr 3, 2022 2:07:50 GMT -5" class="o-timestamp time">Apr 3, 2022 2:07:50 GMT -5</abbr> vadarx said:
 
I was, admittedly, pissed when they took him with their top pick in Dallas. but, I tried to give him a chance and would've kept trying had he not been moved in the Jones deal. his boss, one Stanley Bowman, totally screwed him as far as his early career goes. he had no business being brought in the way he was. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy and have a decent NHL career at this point.

dumb pick to begin with, made worse by his superiors rushing him into a spot he wasn't ready for, and then one upped in the stupidity department when he was bailed on at a young age for a player that the team didn't need...

I'm so glad Bowman is gone.

Who did they get for him? I forgot already.

cue the Fry meme...

no sure if joking, but in case you aren't, he was in the Seth Jones trade.

[Tater]

Apr 3, 2022 2:13:54 GMT -6 vadarx said:

cue the Fry meme...

no sure if joking, but in case you aren't, he was in the Seth Jones trade.

Doh!!! I forgot he was part of that trade.

[mvr]

Apr 2, 2022 23:59:10 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Apr 1, 2022 10:01:01 GMT -6 mvr said:

I like to see a balance of different types of defencemen in the lineup.   

Ideally, you might have two offensive-minded guys (ideally one on each side), two big physical guys, and two purely shutdown guys.  The Hawks during their championship run had Keith, Campbell and later Leddy in offensive-minded roles, Seabrook, Rozsival and Brookbank as the physical guys, Hjalmarsson, Sopel and later Oduya as the defense-first guys.  Typically, there is room for one offensive-minded right-shot defenceman on most teams.   

The team picked the more promising kid, Boqvist, and they believed Ian Mitchell eventually would emerge as the other top four guy perhaps as a more defence-first player (which he still likely will be).   I do not believe this was a bad decision.   

Boqvist appears likely to become a higher offensive producer than Jokiharju.   Mitchell is the  question mark, but his game seems to be developing in the right way.   

Was it smart to trade Jokiharju for Nylander?   This is a different issue altogether.   

Was it a good idea to move Boqvist as part of the package for Seth Jones?   I don't know.   Jones clearly is a number one guy, but the contract is long and restricted.  I shudder to think how bad this team's defence would be this year without him.   Clearly, the much-maligned Duncan Keith covered up many issues the past several years.  I would have preferred to keep Keith through a rebuild, but of course, the Hawks did him a favour as they should have.

Almost from the time Boqvist appeared in a Blackhawk jersey he was considered another of Stan's failures and fans wanted him gone.  With all the bad comments he received we are fortunate we didn't have to eat half his contract.  Yes he should have been in that trade because it was the only way we were going to get rid of him.

 

Boqvist was rushed as were several of the team's prospects (including Dach, Kurashev, Forsling, Hartman, Schmaltz etc ... the list goes on).    This was a mistake which should never happen again.   

Kids need time to learn the pro game.   Their bodies need to fill out.   They need to adjust to living independently without adults controlling them.  Unless the prospect is a gamebreaking star like Toews and Kane, he should be overcooked in the minors.   

The time to bring most of them up is at the beginning of the player's second contract.  This is when they must remain on the roster or be lost to waivers.  Only two prospects are in that boat next year - Kalynuk and Altybarmakyin.  Both Ian Mitchell and Galvas could clear waivers and be returned to Rockford next year (although I believe Mitchell - an older college kid - is likely ready).

Yet the temptation to bring up a young kid early remains strong.  Coaches get frustrated when the players they have tune them out. 

This is why I suggest adding veteran players next year on very short term contracts.   

If Debrincat or Kane (or both) is traded this summer, the team will still need someone to produce on the powerplay.  Phil Kessel can fill in that role temporarily while the young players develop in Rockford.   Similarly, the Hawks need a goaltender for the time being.   MAF will be looking for a job and likely is willing to sign a two year deal.  A general manager has to throw his coach a bone once in a while.   You don't want the players on the roster to lose all interest.

[mvr]

Lucas Reichel is scoring at about a point a game right now in Rockford.

He is not dominating by any definition, and he still appears to be growing physically from his slight teenage body.

As it stands, Reichel is the team's top forward prospect. He will be an NHL player without question. He has the skills. His confidence is growing. The temptation will be strong to promote him if not before the end of this year then certainly in the fall.

This would be a mistake. He should stay in the AHL for at least another 8-12 months. When the player dominates at the AHL and clearly demonstrates he has nothing left to learn there (i.e 15-20 points in a 10 game stretch), then you move him up.