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Post by vadarx on Apr 3, 2022 7:12:03 GMT -6
Lucas Reichel is scoring at about a point a game right now in Rockford. He is not dominating by any definition, and he still appears to be growing physically from his slight teenage body. As it stands, Reichel is the team's top forward prospect. He will be an NHL player without question. He has the skills. His confidence is growing. The temptation will be strong to promote him if not before the end of this year then certainly in the fall. This would be a mistake. He should stay in the AHL for at least another 8-12 months. When the player dominates at the AHL and clearly demonstrates he has nothing left to learn there (i.e 15-20 points in a 10 game stretch), then you move him up. I agree, let him develop, especially considering this is his first year in North America. I'll bet you a dollar that he is on the opening night roster next season, though... |
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Post by BigT on Apr 3, 2022 7:35:46 GMT -6
Lucas Reichel is scoring at about a point a game right now in Rockford. He is not dominating by any definition, and he still appears to be growing physically from his slight teenage body. As it stands, Reichel is the team's top forward prospect. He will be an NHL player without question. He has the skills. His confidence is growing. The temptation will be strong to promote him if not before the end of this year then certainly in the fall. This would be a mistake. He should stay in the AHL for at least another 8-12 months. When the player dominates at the AHL and clearly demonstrates he has nothing left to learn there (i.e 15-20 points in a 10 game stretch), then you move him up. I agree, let him develop, especially considering this is his first year in North America. I'll bet you a dollar that he is on the opening night roster next season, though... I’ll even bet a buck fifty. A point per game is pretty good. And I think he at least deserves a shot. I’m all for taking it slow. But if he deserves a shot, give him one and let him earn his way from the 4th line to wherever he ends up!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Apr 3, 2022 7:39:26 GMT -6
I agree, let him develop, especially considering this is his first year in North America. I'll bet you a dollar that he is on the opening night roster next season, though... I’ll even bet a buck fifty. A point per game is pretty good. And I think he at least deserves a shot. I’m all for taking it slow. But if he deserves a shot, give him one and let him earn his way from the 4th line to wherever he ends up!!! yep. if he earns a spot on the team next fall, so be it. but that doesn't mean he needs to be our #1 center right out of the gate either. let him start on the fourth line and work his way up. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 3, 2022 7:55:25 GMT -6
Lucas Reichel is scoring at about a point a game right now in Rockford. He is not dominating by any definition, and he still appears to be growing physically from his slight teenage body. As it stands, Reichel is the team's top forward prospect. He will be an NHL player without question. He has the skills. His confidence is growing. The temptation will be strong to promote him if not before the end of this year then certainly in the fall. This would be a mistake. He should stay in the AHL for at least another 8-12 months. When the player dominates at the AHL and clearly demonstrates he has nothing left to learn there (i.e 15-20 points in a 10 game stretch), then you move him up. Unlike most prospects who play against kids their own age before turning pro Reichels been playing against men since he was 17, this is his first year in North America as a 19yr old and he's going to set the Icehogs record for goals and points by a rookie and probably be the first Hog rookie to get 60pts, if they keep him there, as they should. We've talked about not rushing prospects and I think they've learned from the last GMs mistakes or else he would've been in the NHL this season. Playing one full year in the AHL is what most 1st rounders need and yeah he's not dominating on offense but he doesn't have much to work with and he's known for being a strong 2way player, so being a point a game is pretty impressive. As for Debrincat, he was a 5'7" 2nd rounder and Q put him in the lineup as an 18yr old, that says a lot about Alex and how not all prospects are the same, so we'll see how Reichel looks at training camp next season but he should be in the lineup, especially if Kane and Debrincat are moved. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 3, 2022 8:00:29 GMT -6
I will raise to $2. He is on the opening roster next year. But it will be a mistake. What is the rush? The team will be terrible.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 3, 2022 8:14:30 GMT -6
I will raise to $2. He is on the opening roster next year. But it will be a mistake. What is the rush? The team will be terrible. Just like Debrincat we agree to disagree, I made my points about Reichel and it wouldn't be rushing him. I will add that he wasn't drafted because he put up great numbers in the DEL league but because he has a high IQ and motor and plays a really good 2way game. Not many 17yr olds make the elite leagues, says a lot about Lukas. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 3, 2022 8:43:33 GMT -6
Almost from the time Boqvist appeared in a Blackhawk jersey he was considered another of Stan's failures and fans wanted him gone. With all the bad comments he received we are fortunate we didn't have to eat half his contract. Yes he should have been in that trade because it was the only way we were going to get rid of him. I was, admittedly, pissed when they took him with their top pick in Dallas. but, I tried to give him a chance and would've kept trying had he not been moved in the Jones deal. his boss, one Stanley Bowman, totally screwed him as far as his early career goes. he had no business being brought in the way he was. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy and have a decent NHL career at this point. dumb pick to begin with, made worse by his superiors rushing him into a spot he wasn't ready for, and then one upped in the stupidity department when he was bailed on at a young age for a player that the team didn't need... I'm so glad Bowman is gone. I know KD has praised Brian Campbell and sounds like he will have a new role in the organization, but remember he was supposed to be the guy that was mentoring and tutoring Boqvist. Yes, I agree he was rushed, just not sure how effective Campbell was in that role. Looking back the bigger prospect dmen would have been a better pick, but Bowman had visons of another Karlsson. I was hoping Q. Hughes would fall to us but Vancouver 1 pick before got him. Bowman same guy who made the comment that Borgstrom was one of the best college players he has ever seen. |
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Post by BigT on Apr 3, 2022 12:05:19 GMT -6
I was, admittedly, pissed when they took him with their top pick in Dallas. but, I tried to give him a chance and would've kept trying had he not been moved in the Jones deal. his boss, one Stanley Bowman, totally screwed him as far as his early career goes. he had no business being brought in the way he was. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy and have a decent NHL career at this point. dumb pick to begin with, made worse by his superiors rushing him into a spot he wasn't ready for, and then one upped in the stupidity department when he was bailed on at a young age for a player that the team didn't need... I'm so glad Bowman is gone. I know KD has praised Brian Campbell and sounds like he will have a new role in the organization, but remember he was supposed to be the guy that was mentoring and tutoring Boqvist. Yes, I agree he was rushed, just not sure how effective Campbell was in that role. Looking back the bigger prospect dmen would have been a better pick, but Bowman had visons of another Karlsson. I was hoping Q. Hughes would fall to us but Vancouver 1 pick before got him. Bowman same guy who made the comment that Borgstrom was one of the best college players he has ever seen. I remember that. Maybe Scambo should scout for college teams and work his way up. His talent evaluation was horrible on his best day. I even think if Hughes was taken. The Hawks we’re gonna ruin whoever they took as Scambo thought he was the smartest guy in the room and he was convinced he could build through the draft in 2-3 years and be back on top. Why? Simply because he thought he was the smartest guy. He had everything given to him his whole way up. He wasn’t gonna fail with his daddy there. Even when he failed, it wasn’t his fault. He fired everyone and it still stunk. He’s just an asshole!!! |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 3, 2022 15:54:53 GMT -6
I know KD has praised Brian Campbell and sounds like he will have a new role in the organization, but remember he was supposed to be the guy that was mentoring and tutoring Boqvist. Yes, I agree he was rushed, just not sure how effective Campbell was in that role. Looking back the bigger prospect dmen would have been a better pick, but Bowman had visons of another Karlsson. I was hoping Q. Hughes would fall to us but Vancouver 1 pick before got him. Bowman same guy who made the comment that Borgstrom was one of the best college players he has ever seen. I remember that. Maybe Scambo should scout for college teams and work his way up. His talent evaluation was horrible on his best day. I even think if Hughes was taken. The Hawks we’re gonna ruin whoever they took as Scambo thought he was the smartest guy in the room and he was convinced he could build through the draft in 2-3 years and be back on top. Why? Simply because he thought he was the smartest guy. He had everything given to him his whole way up. He wasn’t gonna fail with his daddy there. Even when he failed, it wasn’t his fault. He fired everyone and it still stunk. He’s just an asshole!!! Rick Dudley 40 years experience 24 years as a senior executive in Chicago (2004-2009) Atlanta Montreal Toronto Florida Tampa Bay (1999-2002) Ottawa and Carolina Hurricanes has been on record as saying that Stan was a good evaluator of talent so I will take his opinion over yours. |
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debrincat
Apr 3, 2022 16:35:13 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on Apr 3, 2022 16:35:13 GMT -6
I remember that. Maybe Scambo should scout for college teams and work his way up. His talent evaluation was horrible on his best day. I even think if Hughes was taken. The Hawks we’re gonna ruin whoever they took as Scambo thought he was the smartest guy in the room and he was convinced he could build through the draft in 2-3 years and be back on top. Why? Simply because he thought he was the smartest guy. He had everything given to him his whole way up. He wasn’t gonna fail with his daddy there. Even when he failed, it wasn’t his fault. He fired everyone and it still stunk. He’s just an asshole!!! Rick Dudley 40 years experience 24 years as a senior executive in Chicago (2004-2009) Atlanta Montreal Toronto Florida Tampa Bay (1999-2002) Ottawa and Carolina Hurricanes has been on record as saying that Stan was a good evaluator of talent so I will take his opinion over yours. I hope you do. Scambo was a fraud. MacIvor even said so. And that’s rare that hockey guys speak out against each other. Your idol knew nothing of the sport. The team your idol worked for is in utter shambles. Worse than the expansion team that just came into existence. Scambo sucked. Plain and simple. He sucks. He sucked. He is suck. Sucking is his job. Sucking is his life. He suckiest suck to ever suck!!! |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 3, 2022 17:33:42 GMT -6
I remember that. Maybe Scambo should scout for college teams and work his way up. His talent evaluation was horrible on his best day. I even think if Hughes was taken. The Hawks we’re gonna ruin whoever they took as Scambo thought he was the smartest guy in the room and he was convinced he could build through the draft in 2-3 years and be back on top. Why? Simply because he thought he was the smartest guy. He had everything given to him his whole way up. He wasn’t gonna fail with his daddy there. Even when he failed, it wasn’t his fault. He fired everyone and it still stunk. He’s just an asshole!!! Rick Dudley 40 years experience 24 years as a senior executive in Chicago (2004-2009) Atlanta Montreal Toronto Florida Tampa Bay (1999-2002) Ottawa and Carolina Hurricanes has been on record as saying that Stan was a good evaluator of talent so I will take his opinion over yours. Bowman has a record as a general manager so we can debate what our opinions may be, however strictly from player acquisition and drafting (probably the most important in player evaluation) the record is not very good. Aside from the occasionally 2nd round "hits" like Saad, Debrincat and Shaw in the 5th round, from 2010 to 2018 only Beaudin is still in organization from the first round and Beaudin has been passed now by other prospects on the depth chart. That type of record from a player evaluation will absolutely destroy any franchise chance to sustain and have ongoing success. So we can debate all we want and say who's opinion you agree or trust more, but the man has a record and it is abysmal and I am being kind. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 3, 2022 17:51:34 GMT -6
Bowman also was given a great opportunity to bring in an impact and potential franchisee player in the 2019 draft and right now the immediate results are not looking that great. Yes, he is still young, and I am a Hawks fan, so I hope he develops. I just do not think he will be a franchisee player. Everyone said the real draft starts with the 3rd pick and so far, any reasonable person will say not looking that promising.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 3, 2022 20:36:04 GMT -6
Bowman also was given a great opportunity to bring in an impact and potential franchisee player in the 2019 draft and right now the immediate results are not looking that great. Yes, he is still young, and I am a Hawks fan, so I hope he develops. I just do not think he will be a franchisee player. Everyone said the real draft starts with the 3rd pick and so far, any reasonable person will say not looking that promising. Imagine if they took Byram and his career is in jeopardy already, the draft isn't a sure thing and they went with a big mature kid. Unfortunately he's been a disappointment and might be a 2nd or 3rd liner but definitely not a franchise player. At least he's been healthy I guess. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Apr 3, 2022 22:29:46 GMT -6
Rick Dudley 40 years experience 24 years as a senior executive in Chicago (2004-2009) Atlanta Montreal Toronto Florida Tampa Bay (1999-2002) Ottawa and Carolina Hurricanes has been on record as saying that Stan was a good evaluator of talent so I will take his opinion over yours. Bowman has a record as a general manager so we can debate what our opinions may be, however strictly from player acquisition and drafting (probably the most important in player evaluation) the record is not very good. Aside from the occasionally 2nd round "hits" like Saad, Debrincat and Shaw in the 5th round, from 2010 to 2018 only Beaudin is still in organization from the first round and Beaudin has been passed now by other prospects on the depth chart. That type of record from a player evaluation will absolutely destroy any franchise chance to sustain and have ongoing success. So we can debate all we want and say who's opinion you agree or trust more, but the man has a record and it is abysmal and I am being kind. Gonna have to disagree with you a little here Niko. Hartman, Teuvo, Danault, all real good picks. As everyone has said he thought he was the smartest in room and he never had a long term plan. I would say his trades were far worse then his drafting. Worse thing was the Leddy trade right off the bat and he thought it was easy. We could all list at least 5 trades that destroyed this franchise. Its a shame he was left in charge for so long. Its more of a shame that he will never be held accountable for what he did to this team. I would love for them to hire him back and then fire him again and state its because he sucked!! |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 4, 2022 3:01:41 GMT -6
Rick Dudley 40 years experience 24 years as a senior executive in Chicago (2004-2009) Atlanta Montreal Toronto Florida Tampa Bay (1999-2002) Ottawa and Carolina Hurricanes has been on record as saying that Stan was a good evaluator of talent so I will take his opinion over yours. Bowman has a record as a general manager so we can debate what our opinions may be, however strictly from player acquisition and drafting (probably the most important in player evaluation) the record is not very good. Aside from the occasionally 2nd round "hits" like Saad, Debrincat and Shaw in the 5th round, from 2010 to 2018 only Beaudin is still in organization from the first round and Beaudin has been passed now by other prospects on the depth chart. That type of record from a player evaluation will absolutely destroy any franchise chance to sustain and have ongoing success. So we can debate all we want and say who's opinion you agree or trust more, but the man has a record and it is abysmal and I am being kind. I would say your evaluation of his record is off as he acquired some important pieces in the cup years in the offseason and at or near the TDL. Stan had some picks who are not with the team now but they are playing in the NHL and are productive. Schmaltz was traded for Strome and Perlini who was later traded for Regula who some day will be a regula on D. From 2010-2017 we were a cup favourite. On the other hand Pittsburgh went from raising the cup in 2009 until 2016 to get back to the cup final. Shaw was drafted in the 19 round of draft eligibility. Every team passed on Shaw in his first two years of eligibility including Talon and the Hawks and it took everybodys whipping boy Stan to pick him. Stan eventually traded Shaw to Montreal for a 2nd rounder and Stan used that pick to draft DeBrincat. You mention second rounds picks plus Shaw in round 5 but you forget the first rounders like TT Danault Schmaultz |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 7:12:22 GMT -6
Bowman has a record as a general manager so we can debate what our opinions may be, however strictly from player acquisition and drafting (probably the most important in player evaluation) the record is not very good. Aside from the occasionally 2nd round "hits" like Saad, Debrincat and Shaw in the 5th round, from 2010 to 2018 only Beaudin is still in organization from the first round and Beaudin has been passed now by other prospects on the depth chart. That type of record from a player evaluation will absolutely destroy any franchise chance to sustain and have ongoing success. So we can debate all we want and say who's opinion you agree or trust more, but the man has a record and it is abysmal and I am being kind. I would say your evaluation of his record is off as he acquired some important pieces in the cup years in the offseason and at or near the TDL. Stan had some picks who are not with the team now but they are playing in the NHL and are productive. Schmaltz was traded for Strome and Perlini who was later traded for Regula who some day will be a regula on D. From 2010-2017 we were a cup favourite. On the other hand Pittsburgh went from raising the cup in 2009 until 2016 to get back to the cup final. Shaw was drafted in the 19 round of draft eligibility. Every team passed on Shaw in his first two years of eligibility including Talon and the Hawks and it took everybodys whipping boy Stan to pick him. Stan eventually traded Shaw to Montreal for a 2nd rounder and Stan used that pick to draft DeBrincat. You mention second rounds picks plus Shaw in round 5 but you forget the first rounders like TT Danault Schmaultz I did not mention them because they are no longer relevant. Most teams that are successful and for long period of times draft well, hit on their first round picks and those players usually are on the team and are difference makers. TT and Danualt were given away lets be honest and Schmaltz was a disappointment. All of them are good players, difference makers no. So far from 2010 until now with Bowman in charge no difference makers drafted in the FIRST ROUND and on the team. The Cat is only difference maker he drafted outside of the first round and on the team and likely will be traded due to no long term plan by the GM. If you believe one difference maker for 10+ years drafting and evaluating talent is a good record that is fine, I believe that is a low bar. Before we give him accolades/credit for trading some of those pieces the reason he had to was he had no plan and certainly lacked vision to sustain success, both short and long term. Yes, Pitsburgh had a stretch were they did not compete for the cup with 71 & 87 in the middle of their prime, but guess what they found a way, retooled and won back to back. The Hawks due to Bowman's mismanagement wasted some of 19 & 88 prime years and will not sniff another cup with them on the team. Come on he destroyed this team, any reasonable person will agree. I am not one of Stan's whipping boys and you are certainly entitled to your opinion in which you believe Bowman did a good job, his overall draft record on bringing in high end impact and difference making players, keeping and developing them says otherwise. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 7:34:32 GMT -6
The reason we were cup favorites is because a minimum of 4 HOF was on the team (2, 19, 81 & 88), all players drafted and acquired by other GM. Some can argue that Seabrook might one day end up there too, my opinion he belongs.
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Post by squishy24 on Apr 4, 2022 9:55:30 GMT -6
The reason we were cup favorites is because a minimum of 4 HOF was on the team (2, 19, 81 & 88), all players drafted and acquired by other GM. Some can argue that Seabrook might one day end up there too, my opinion he belongs. i've always wondered about this, not just with the Hawks but i'll use it as an example, when does the new/current GM become responsible (credited or blamed) for players that s/he inherits from the previous GM? i mean for 2, 7, 19, 81 and 88. Bowman didnt draft them, but he chose to re-sign and keep them despite of the backlash of giving them "lousy" contracts. Im not pro or against Bowman, just using it as an example. He could have just as easily get rid of 2 and 7 instead of Campbell, or not re-sign Seabrook to his current contract. Could have traded out Hammer and/or Oduya instead of Leddy. I get that it would be pretty dumb to get rid of Toews and/or Kane instead of others first, but it was still his decision who to keep and who to let go, right? despite of how the players were achieved and regardless if Bowman drafted them or not. I guess i never bought into the argument that a player is credited to the GM who drafted them. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 10:25:49 GMT -6
The reason we were cup favorites is because a minimum of 4 HOF was on the team (2, 19, 81 & 88), all players drafted and acquired by other GM. Some can argue that Seabrook might one day end up there too, my opinion he belongs. i've always wondered about this, not just with the Hawks but i'll use it as an example, when does the new/current GM become responsible (credited or blamed) for players that s/he inherits from the previous GM? i mean for 2, 7, 19, 81 and 88. Bowman didnt draft them, but he chose to re-sign and keep them despite of the backlash of giving them "lousy" contracts. Im not pro or against Bowman, just using it as an example. He could have just as easily get rid of 2 and 7 instead of Campbell, or not re-sign Seabrook to his current contract. Could have traded out Hammer and/or Oduya instead of Leddy. I get that it would be pretty dumb to get rid of Toews and/or Kane instead of others first, but it was still his decision who to keep and who to let go, right? despite of how the players were achieved and regardless if Bowman drafted them or not. I guess i never bought into the argument that a player is credited to the GM who drafted them. Keith was never going anywhere because he had a favorable cap number and was coming off a Conn Smythe year in 2015. Like you said 19 & 88 would have been suicide to trade those players right in the middle of their prime. One could argue that he did not have to give Seabrook the 8 years, but he was paying for past performance and the vocal leader of the team. My "beef" with Bowman is he has never drafted or developed high end impact players (outside of D-cat). That type of record will catch up with you sooner or later. Having all those HOFers on the team added a few years. This is where in my opinion he has failed not to have a long-term plan. He had a window for a couple more cup runs/wins and squandered it because he thought he was the smartest man in the room. Those HOFers were delivered on a silver platter, any GM would be kissing "butt" and thanking his lucky stars to be in that position. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 4, 2022 10:27:23 GMT -6
Bowman also was given a great opportunity to bring in an impact and potential franchisee player in the 2019 draft and right now the immediate results are not looking that great. Yes, he is still young, and I am a Hawks fan, so I hope he develops. I just do not think he will be a franchisee player. Everyone said the real draft starts with the 3rd pick and so far, any reasonable person will say not looking that promising. Imagine if they took Byram and his career is in jeopardy already, the draft isn't a sure thing and they went with a big mature kid. Unfortunately he's been a disappointment and might be a 2nd or 3rd liner but definitely not a franchise player. At least he's been healthy I guess. If you don't count the concussion and broken wrist I guess. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 10:34:54 GMT -6
We saw what happened when Bowman got rid of a player, hello Panarin aka Breadman. How about Leddy for the famous Ville Pokka. Then he makes a good trade for Pokka and gets Forsling from Vancouver and lets him go, who now has developed into a pretty good dmen.
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Post by squishy24 on Apr 4, 2022 11:15:56 GMT -6
i've always wondered about this, not just with the Hawks but i'll use it as an example, when does the new/current GM become responsible (credited or blamed) for players that s/he inherits from the previous GM? i mean for 2, 7, 19, 81 and 88. Bowman didnt draft them, but he chose to re-sign and keep them despite of the backlash of giving them "lousy" contracts. Im not pro or against Bowman, just using it as an example. He could have just as easily get rid of 2 and 7 instead of Campbell, or not re-sign Seabrook to his current contract. Could have traded out Hammer and/or Oduya instead of Leddy. I get that it would be pretty dumb to get rid of Toews and/or Kane instead of others first, but it was still his decision who to keep and who to let go, right? despite of how the players were achieved and regardless if Bowman drafted them or not. I guess i never bought into the argument that a player is credited to the GM who drafted them. Keith was never going anywhere because he had a favorable cap number and was coming off a Conn Smythe year in 2015. Like you said 19 & 88 would have been suicide to trade those players right in the middle of their prime. One could argue that he did not have to give Seabrook the 8 years, but he was paying for past performance and the vocal leader of the team. My "beef" with Bowman is he has never drafted or developed high end impact players (outside of D-cat). That type of record will catch up with you sooner or later. Having all those HOFers on the team added a few years. This is where in my opinion he has failed not to have a long-term plan. He had a window for a couple more cup runs/wins and squandered it because he thought he was the smartest man in the room. Those HOFers were delivered on a silver platter, any GM would be kissing "butt" and thanking his lucky stars to be in that position. the Seabrook contract is the perfect example of what i was getting at. he chose to re-sign him, gets blamed for it, but if he didnt, hes responsible for that as well. whoever drafted Seabs at that point didnt matter. KD is approaching the same fork in the road with 19, 88 and Dcat. if he trades them all, thats his decision and no one else (blame/accolade that comes with it will be all his), but if he re-sign them and if from some impossible way won a cup with them, that should be all credited to him, right? not the person who drafted them. anyway, sorry, i guess i derailed your point/topic. back to it, Saad was also pretty good draft and develop. But yea, Bowman just went further downhill after the last cup. his draft and trade isnt a good record either. by the way, about Leddy, I think the way Bowman acquired him and got rid of him was good in my book. you lose Barker, and getting rid of him instead of any other player in the roster at the time was the best decision (they won a cup!). too bad the return didnt pan out. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 4, 2022 11:37:37 GMT -6
i've always wondered about this, not just with the Hawks but i'll use it as an example, when does the new/current GM become responsible (credited or blamed) for players that s/he inherits from the previous GM? i mean for 2, 7, 19, 81 and 88. Bowman didnt draft them, but he chose to re-sign and keep them despite of the backlash of giving them "lousy" contracts. Im not pro or against Bowman, just using it as an example. He could have just as easily get rid of 2 and 7 instead of Campbell, or not re-sign Seabrook to his current contract. Could have traded out Hammer and/or Oduya instead of Leddy. I get that it would be pretty dumb to get rid of Toews and/or Kane instead of others first, but it was still his decision who to keep and who to let go, right? despite of how the players were achieved and regardless if Bowman drafted them or not. I guess i never bought into the argument that a player is credited to the GM who drafted them. Keith was never going anywhere because he had a favorable cap number and was coming off a Conn Smythe year in 2015. Like you said 19 & 88 would have been suicide to trade those players right in the middle of their prime. One could argue that he did not have to give Seabrook the 8 years, but he was paying for past performance and the vocal leader of the team. My "beef" with Bowman is he has never drafted or developed high end impact players (outside of D-cat). That type of record will catch up with you sooner or later. Having all those HOFers on the team added a few years. This is where in my opinion he has failed not to have a long-term plan. He had a window for a couple more cup runs/wins and squandered it because he thought he was the smartest man in the room. Those HOFers were delivered on a silver platter, any GM would be kissing "butt" and thanking his lucky stars to be in that position. And re-signing generational players who won cups,filled seats and sold jerseys was a gimmie,the support players brought in the last half dozen or so years have been substandard. Spending spree (19) followed by rebuild (20) followed by another spending spree (21) followed by......wait for it.....another rebuild (circa 22) has us where we are along with way too much no man's land as we start our rebuild as spectators in the first round. I screamed BLODDY MURDER back in the 'I know what DUMBASS did last summer', summer of '19'.........a plethora of unforced and tragic errors that will effect the team for some time to come...... WHO TF willingly takes Shaw's deal w/o a single dollar retained or a bit of sweetener..........we gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for FUK'S Sake and took the whole contract......right in the face. ACTUALLY traded for deHAAN-job,ate this entire 4.6MX3 deal too even though it was a pure salary dump by the Canes(getting rid of guys like deHAAH-job is why the Canes stay good) and we tossed in one guy who's startin' in net for the Sens and another who's dependably patrolling one of the league's best blue-lines for shits and giggles I guess......deHAAH job's been untradeable. Traded for Matta too,ate his entire 4M......retained $$$ to move him the following summer  ,while the Habs signed Chairot to a clause free 3.5M deal. The BIG,RUGGED Chairot helped an overachieving Habs team reach the finals last year before bringing quite the haul in trade at this year's TDL........we couldn't get a mid-rounder for the untradable deHAAN-job. That was also the summer a brilliant.young HC convinced his 'think outside the box' GM to give up on a D-man who made the league @19 for TRASH! Last summer was another BUMMER! If you eat 31yro Tyler Johnson's entire,outragous 5MX3 deal,that should come with picks.......good picks but NO SOAP. If Tampa could figure out how to navigate the rest of Seabs' LTIR/cap situation every year why couldn't DUMBASS? Oh right......that's why he's DUMBASS. Eating Brent 'buyout' Connolly's deal (I called him that the day after the trade and I was 100% right then),get some picks good picks for 3.5MX2+? NO SOAP once again......we got the NCAA superstar center 'Failed Borgstrom' instead of some good picks. Florida was able to bring in the STUD power forward Sam Bennett after losing Connolly's cap hit and Zito knew Q had ZERO use for the NCAA phenom.....Q was right too! The Chicago Black Hawks COULD ice a top pair of Seider and Jokiharju but NO SOAP! I know the big German went #6 and that's not much of a stretch but DUMBASS stupidly figured he had all the great young D-men he needed (LOFL!!!!) SO.......instead we're married to what could be a worse deal than Seabs in 3-4 years, S Jones has a LOT of miles on the odometer already at his age,along with max term,max $$$,max clauses and he even has most of his $$$ paid in bonuses like Seabs so a buyout won't even help with a few years left. That's right ladies and germs(LOL) that DUMBASS gave Seth Jones the exact same Albatross of a deal he gave Seabs,well........actually MUCH more expensive this time.......DUMBASS learned nothing from his mistakes.........that's what made him a DUMBASS! Just imagine still having those 1st round picks......ALL THAT CAP SPACE......and Boqvist to either further develop or to use as an asset. THAT WOULDA BEEN A FUKING REBUILD MY FRIENDS! |
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debrincat
Apr 4, 2022 11:49:25 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 4, 2022 11:49:25 GMT -6
Imagine if they took Byram and his career is in jeopardy already, the draft isn't a sure thing and they went with a big mature kid. Unfortunately he's been a disappointment and might be a 2nd or 3rd liner but definitely not a franchise player. At least he's been healthy I guess. If you don't count the concussion and broken wrist I guess. Of course that's the only thing you responded to from my post lol His concussion happened before his first NHL game and he didn't miss significant time. Broken bones heal but having a few concussions in a short period and it causing a player to miss almost a full season is much worse. Yes Dach missed most of last season but that's because he was rushed back and put on the top line right away, plus it was a shortened season. But he's been healthy this season and still playing whereas Byrams future is a question mark. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 4, 2022 11:52:44 GMT -6
We saw what happened when Bowman got rid of a player, hello Panarin aka Breadman. How about Leddy for the famous Ville Pokka. Then he makes a good trade for Pokka and gets Forsling from Vancouver and lets him go, who now has developed into a pretty good dmen. The picks that came in return for Hartman shoulda been a haul too but the only 'haul' was a 'U-haul' for DUMBASS. Weren't those picks Beaudin and Kurashev? It took a while and some bouncin' around but now that 27yro Ryan Hartman is playing with good players,he's a reliable top six forward and an INCREADABLE value @1.7MX3! He and his linemate 'Krill the thrill' make 10.7M combined and that's not to say 'Krill' hasn't earned his 9M,breaking the Wild all-time scoring record........just another goal scoring winger having a HUGE impact on his successful team! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 4, 2022 12:01:05 GMT -6
If you don't count the concussion and broken wrist I guess. Of course that's the only thing you responded to from my post lol His concussion happened before his first NHL game and he didn't miss significant time. Broken bones heal but having a few concussions in a short period and it causing a player to miss almost a full season is much worse. Yes Dach missed most of last season but that's because he was rushed back and put on the top line right away, plus it was a shortened season. But he's been healthy this season and still playing whereas Byrams future is a question mark. I didn't respond to the part about Byram and I also didn't respond to the MANY better players taken after Dach either. I just pointed out Dach has missed his share of games to injury too and the way he gets CLOBBERED,that could be problematic.........I HOPE NOT!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Apr 4, 2022 12:15:02 GMT -6
If you don't count the concussion and broken wrist I guess. Of course that's the only thing you responded to from my post lol His concussion happened before his first NHL game and he didn't miss significant time. Broken bones heal but having a few concussions in a short period and it causing a player to miss almost a full season is much worse. Yes Dach missed most of last season but that's because he was rushed back and put on the top line right away, plus it was a shortened season. But he's been healthy this season and still playing whereas Byrams future is a question mark. Byram just played 2 games in the minors and maybe in the AV's lineup Tuesday against the Pens. We'll see how he comes out the rest of the season or if someone runs him. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Apr 4, 2022 12:23:57 GMT -6
Of course that's the only thing you responded to from my post lol His concussion happened before his first NHL game and he didn't miss significant time. Broken bones heal but having a few concussions in a short period and it causing a player to miss almost a full season is much worse. Yes Dach missed most of last season but that's because he was rushed back and put on the top line right away, plus it was a shortened season. But he's been healthy this season and still playing whereas Byrams future is a question mark. I didn't respond to the part about Byram and I also didn't respond to the MANY better players taken after Dach either. I just pointed out Dach has missed his share of games to injury too and the way he gets CLOBBERED,that could be problematic.........I HOPE NOT!!! We've seen Dach have some brief flashes of play, but then make dumb a dumb play like keep skating and not passing to a wide open player. Or like the hit he took from Gudas, he saw Gudas going low for a hip check but Dach decides to jump in the air and make the hit look bad? He should have crouched down and drive his knees into Gudas side or head. Don't know what he thinks he can do, but again I blame poor coaching. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 12:52:51 GMT -6
Keith was never going anywhere because he had a favorable cap number and was coming off a Conn Smythe year in 2015. Like you said 19 & 88 would have been suicide to trade those players right in the middle of their prime. One could argue that he did not have to give Seabrook the 8 years, but he was paying for past performance and the vocal leader of the team. My "beef" with Bowman is he has never drafted or developed high end impact players (outside of D-cat). That type of record will catch up with you sooner or later. Having all those HOFers on the team added a few years. This is where in my opinion he has failed not to have a long-term plan. He had a window for a couple more cup runs/wins and squandered it because he thought he was the smartest man in the room. Those HOFers were delivered on a silver platter, any GM would be kissing "butt" and thanking his lucky stars to be in that position. the Seabrook contract is the perfect example of what i was getting at. he chose to re-sign him, gets blamed for it, but if he didnt, hes responsible for that as well. whoever drafted Seabs at that point didnt matter. KD is approaching the same fork in the road with 19, 88 and Dcat. if he trades them all, thats his decision and no one else (blame/accolade that comes with it will be all his), but if he re-sign them and if from some impossible way won a cup with them, that should be all credited to him, right? not the person who drafted them. anyway, sorry, i guess i derailed your point/topic. back to it, Saad was also pretty good draft and develop. But yea, Bowman just went further downhill after the last cup. his draft and trade isnt a good record either. by the way, about Leddy, I think the way Bowman acquired him and got rid of him was good in my book. you lose Barker, and getting rid of him instead of any other player in the roster at the time was the best decision (they won a cup!). too bad the return didnt pan out. No need to be sorry Squishy, I think with some of our responses we sometimes forget what we responded to in the first place. My opinion Bowman is not a good talent evaluator as he has failed to produce any high-end talent in the draft except D-Cat and that is a record of 10+years. Sure Saad was a nice choice, great complementary player, but I would not consider him a difference maker or high end talent, my opinion. He had a chance with a gift in 2019 and choose Dach, hope he works out, but believe he will never be a franchisee dominant player. Some believe Bowman was a good talent evaluator and point to the fact that several of his 1st round picks are playing in the NHL. If that is the benchmark drafting players high and most of them no longer on the team no sure how you call that a successful GM. His trade record, I will be kind has been poor, sure he had a few nice moves, but overall not a lot to celebrate. Sure, Leddy for Barker was a good move, I am not 100% sure he was the GM at the time, could be wrong though and if so like I said good move and one of his better ones. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 13:01:32 GMT -6
Hey T-Man sorry for lumping our Bowman thoughts/GM record on the D-cat thread. I know there is a little D-cat overlap as I believe that is one of Bowman's best moves as a GM. Wish he had a few more and then we would not be looking at some very lean next couple of years.
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,while the Habs signed Chairot to a clause free 3.5M deal. The BIG,RUGGED Chairot helped an overachieving Habs team reach the finals last year before bringing quite the haul in trade at this year's TDL........we couldn't get a mid-rounder for the untradable deHAAN-job.
