debrincat

[BigT]

Mar 24, 2022 5:47:14 GMT -6 mvr said:

The salary does not matter much with Debrincat.

It is the term and the NTC/NMC.

Do you sign this kind of player to a long term deal with a NMC?

I don't.

Winning organizations typically are not built around small, scoring wingers. These are support pieces (the easiest positions to fill in a core). Defence comes first. Centres second. Goalies and Power wingers third. Scoring wingers last.

The Hawks are a long way from contending. Similar to Hagel, Debrincat brings more value in the trade market than as a building block.

Marty St Louis? P Kane? Brad Marchand? Goudreau? There’s many more. But teams can and will build around guys like that.

I’m all for trading anyone. But gotta get the right pieces back. Like Dcat to Anaheim for Drysdale, Comtois and a 1st? That helps immensely. Then trade Kane to the Rags for Lafreniere and a 1st. Trade Toews to the Avs for Byram, Barron and a 1st. Now the team is literally half rebuilt and we haven’t even made a draft pick of our own yet.

Then sign Toews and Kane back the year after. Hawks get loaded up with prospects and picks. And the roster would be stacked for some time. Plus free agency etc. there’s a quick way and a slow way. Hawks have the luxury of doing things the quick way.

And if Dcat stays. Cool. It’s not like he’s old or sucks!!!

[hsbob]

D-Cat's quickly becoming as good a passer as he is a scorer (something I fully expected) but guys gotta finish em.

[hsbob]

Mar 23, 2022 22:59:13 GMT -6 vadarx said:

zero chance they don't give this man 10 million as soon as they can extend him.

no wayyyy is Rocky letting them get rid of he or 88. them boys sell tickets.

I'd bet even DUMBASS knew the team needed to rebuild the last few years but he also knew half empty buildings would lead to his dismissal a lot faster than weak,loser teams would so he kept up the charade. He probably keeps his job sans scandal too......I almost guarantee that.


 

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 5:47:14 GMT -6 mvr said:

The salary does not matter much with Debrincat.

It is the term and the NTC/NMC.

Do you sign this kind of player to a long term deal with a NMC?

I don't.

Winning organizations typically are not built around small, scoring wingers. These are support pieces (the easiest positions to fill in a core). Defence comes first. Centres second. Goalies and Power wingers third. Scoring wingers last.

The Hawks are a long way from contending. Similar to Hagel, Debrincat brings more value in the trade market than as a building block.

I agree build with defense and centers first, you say scoring wingers come last like they grow on trees, right now other than Cat who on the team or in organization can snipe like him? I submit to you nobody. I assume then you have to get them as a free agent and those generally are not cheap acquisitions, or you draft one like we did with D-Cat or get lucky with a good trade like Sharp. Cat is the only sniper right now on team by far. Look if some one wants to offer a ridiculous package for Cat then consider, but just because he is 5' 7" and likely to score on average 30-40 goals for the foreseeable future you keep him. There is nothing wrong with paying him market value, yes see if you can avoid the NTC clauses but that should not be a deal breaker.

[mvr]

Mar 24, 2022 6:20:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 24, 2022 5:47:14 GMT -6 mvr said:

The salary does not matter much with Debrincat.

It is the term and the NTC/NMC.

Do you sign this kind of player to a long term deal with a NMC?

I don't.

Winning organizations typically are not built around small, scoring wingers. These are support pieces (the easiest positions to fill in a core). Defence comes first. Centres second. Goalies and Power wingers third. Scoring wingers last.

The Hawks are a long way from contending. Similar to Hagel, Debrincat brings more value in the trade market than as a building block.

Marty St Louis? P Kane? Brad Marchand? Goudreau? There’s many more. But teams can and will build around guys like that.

I’m all for trading anyone. But gotta get the right pieces back. Like Dcat to Anaheim for Drysdale, Comtois and a 1st? That helps immensely. Then trade Kane to the Rags for Lafreniere and a 1st. Trade Toews to the Avs for Byram, Barron and a 1st. Now the team is literally half rebuilt and we haven’t even made a draft pick of our own yet.

Then sign Toews and Kane back the year after. Hawks get loaded up with prospects and picks. And the roster would be stacked for some time. Plus free agency etc. there’s a quick way and a slow way. Hawks have the luxury of doing things the quick way.

And if Dcat stays. Cool. It’s not like he’s old or sucks!!!

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

Mar 24, 2022 6:20:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

Marty St Louis? P Kane? Brad Marchand? Goudreau? There’s many more. But teams can and will build around guys like that.

I’m all for trading anyone. But gotta get the right pieces back. Like Dcat to Anaheim for Drysdale, Comtois and a 1st? That helps immensely. Then trade Kane to the Rags for Lafreniere and a 1st. Trade Toews to the Avs for Byram, Barron and a 1st. Now the team is literally half rebuilt and we haven’t even made a draft pick of our own yet.

Then sign Toews and Kane back the year after. Hawks get loaded up with prospects and picks. And the roster would be stacked for some time. Plus free agency etc. there’s a quick way and a slow way. Hawks have the luxury of doing things the quick way.

And if Dcat stays. Cool. It’s not like he’s old or sucks!!!

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Brendan Gallagher, Viktor Arvidsson, Cam Atkinson, Mats Zuccarello, Jonathan Marchessault, Yanni Gourde, maybe not superstars but all are effective players and needed to win the ultimate prize. I believe you can make an argument with the Caufield kid as well. You throw in the D-cat and he is right at the top of this list if not #1. 

[BigT]

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

Mar 24, 2022 6:20:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

Marty St Louis? P Kane? Brad Marchand? Goudreau? There’s many more. But teams can and will build around guys like that.

I’m all for trading anyone. But gotta get the right pieces back. Like Dcat to Anaheim for Drysdale, Comtois and a 1st? That helps immensely. Then trade Kane to the Rags for Lafreniere and a 1st. Trade Toews to the Avs for Byram, Barron and a 1st. Now the team is literally half rebuilt and we haven’t even made a draft pick of our own yet.

Then sign Toews and Kane back the year after. Hawks get loaded up with prospects and picks. And the roster would be stacked for some time. Plus free agency etc. there’s a quick way and a slow way. Hawks have the luxury of doing things the quick way.

And if Dcat stays. Cool. It’s not like he’s old or sucks!!!

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Bure, Savard, Kariya, Briere, Panerin, Ciccerelli and I’m sure there’s a lot more. My point is that there’s top players in this league for all positions. Hossa was a winger, but was probably more important than 98.6% of the centers in the league!!!

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 12:37:29 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Bure, Savard, Kariya, Briere, Panerin, Ciccerelli and I’m sure there’s a lot more. My point is that there’s top players in this league for all positions. Hossa was a winger, but was probably more important than 98.6% of the centers in the league!!!

Marcel Dionne (Little Beaver, 731 goals), Yvan Cournoyer (roadrunner), Rod Gilbert, Dave Keon, Brian Gionta, Danny Gare, Rene Robert, Pat Verbeek (522 career goals), Theo Fleury, Bernie "Boom-Boom" Geoffrion, Ted Lindsay (nasty to play against), Henri Richard (game tying and game winning goals in 1971 game 7 cup finals), etc. Some of them won cups and multiple. The argument that small players are not effective or "disappear" in the playoffs does not hold up in my opinion.

[OldTimeHawky]

Mar 24, 2022 13:03:33 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 12:37:29 GMT -6 BigT said:

Bure, Savard, Kariya, Briere, Panerin, Ciccerelli and I’m sure there’s a lot more. My point is that there’s top players in this league for all positions. Hossa was a winger, but was probably more important than 98.6% of the centers in the league!!!

Marcel Dionne (Little Beaver, 731 goals), Yvan Cournoyer (roadrunner), Rod Gilbert, Dave Keon, Brian Gionta, Danny Gare, Rene Robert, Pat Verbeek (522 career goals), Theo Fleury, Bernie "Boom-Boom" Geoffrion, Ted Lindsay (nasty to play against), Henri Richard (game tying and game winning goals in 1971 game 7 cup finals), etc. Some of them won cups and multiple. The argument that small players are not effective or "disappear" in the playoffs does not hold up in my opinion.

Mikita was 5'9" 169, played a lot bigger than his size, especially his first 6yrs.

Debrincat can do it all, he's like a Swiss army knife pure sniper, I'd lock him up for 6yrs and offer 8mill per, even if he demands 10mill I'd pay him.

Debrincat-Strome-Raddysh were leaders in Erie and they should lead the rebuild.

[T-man2010]

Mar 24, 2022 12:37:29 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Bure, Savard, Kariya, Briere, Panerin, Ciccerelli and I’m sure there’s a lot more. My point is that there’s top players in this league for all positions. Hossa was a winger, but was probably more important than 98.6% of the centers in the league!!!

I always thumbs up any mention of HOSSA.

[puterwiz62]

Mar 24, 2022 8:27:38 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 5:47:14 GMT -6 mvr said:

The salary does not matter much with Debrincat.

It is the term and the NTC/NMC.

Do you sign this kind of player to a long term deal with a NMC?

I don't.

Winning organizations typically are not built around small, scoring wingers. These are support pieces (the easiest positions to fill in a core). Defence comes first. Centres second. Goalies and Power wingers third. Scoring wingers last.

The Hawks are a long way from contending. Similar to Hagel, Debrincat brings more value in the trade market than as a building block.

I agree build with defense and centers first, you say scoring wingers come last like they grow on trees, right now other than Cat who on the team or in organization can snipe like him? I submit to you nobody. I assume then you have to get them as a free agent and those generally are not cheap acquisitions, or you draft one like we did with D-Cat or get lucky with a good trade like Sharp. Cat is the only sniper right now on team by far. Look if some one wants to offer a ridiculous package for Cat then consider, but just because he is 5' 7" and likely to score on average 30-40 goals for the foreseeable future you keep him. There is nothing wrong with paying him market value, yes see if you can avoid the NTC clauses but that should not be a deal breaker.

Kane is also a sniper and it is beggining to look like Raddysh could become a sniper. Kubalik did look like a sniper until his game fell apart.  King needs to put the junior line of Debrincat, Strome and Raddysh to see how they perform together in the NHL and move Kane to the 1st line with Toews & Kubalik to see if it will light a fire under Kubalik and get his game back to where it should be.

[mvr]

Mar 24, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Brendan Gallagher, Viktor Arvidsson, Cam Atkinson, Mats Zuccarello, Jonathan Marchessault, Yanni Gourde, maybe not superstars but all are effective players and needed to win the ultimate prize. I believe you can make an argument with the Caufield kid as well. You throw in the D-cat and he is right at the top of this list if not #1. 

There are small players in the league.   Some are very good players.   A few are core guys.   

My argument is not that small players can't succeed in the NHL.   Of course, many can.   

I just don't believe in investing big dollars on small wingers.    Championship rosters are rarely built around small wingers. 

There have been a few exceptions (ie Patrick Kane, Gourde, Theo Fleury, St. Louis etc). 

But without exception these teams have also contained big powerful centres and elite defenders.  And almost without exception, the team added the small, scoring winger after assembling the other core players first.

[galaxytrash]

Mar 24, 2022 15:02:49 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Mar 24, 2022 12:37:29 GMT -6 BigT said:

Bure, Savard, Kariya, Briere, Panerin, Ciccerelli and I’m sure there’s a lot more. My point is that there’s top players in this league for all positions. Hossa was a winger, but was probably more important than 98.6% of the centers in the league!!!

I always thumbs up any mention of HOSSA.

Hossa?

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 15:58:09 GMT -6 puterwiz62 said:

Mar 24, 2022 8:27:38 GMT -6 Nikos said:

I agree build with defense and centers first, you say scoring wingers come last like they grow on trees, right now other than Cat who on the team or in organization can snipe like him? I submit to you nobody. I assume then you have to get them as a free agent and those generally are not cheap acquisitions, or you draft one like we did with D-Cat or get lucky with a good trade like Sharp. Cat is the only sniper right now on team by far. Look if some one wants to offer a ridiculous package for Cat then consider, but just because he is 5' 7" and likely to score on average 30-40 goals for the foreseeable future you keep him. There is nothing wrong with paying him market value, yes see if you can avoid the NTC clauses but that should not be a deal breaker.

Kane is also a sniper and it is beggining to look like Raddysh could become a sniper. Kubalik did look like a sniper until his game fell apart.  King needs to put the junior line of Debrincat, Strome and Raddysh to see how they perform together in the NHL and move Kane to the 1st line with Toews & Kubalik to see if it will light a fire under Kubalik and get his game back to where it should be.

Hey let's pump the brakes on Raddysh, yes he is off to a nice start and could have been buried on the talented Bolts roster, but need to see him play a few seasons before we anoint him as a goal scoring sniper. I do agree to put the old Erie line together and see if their prior chemistry translates over into the NHL.

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 16:09:37 GMT -6 mvr said:

Mar 24, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Brendan Gallagher, Viktor Arvidsson, Cam Atkinson, Mats Zuccarello, Jonathan Marchessault, Yanni Gourde, maybe not superstars but all are effective players and needed to win the ultimate prize. I believe you can make an argument with the Caufield kid as well. You throw in the D-cat and he is right at the top of this list if not #1. 

There are small players in the league.   Some are very good players.   A few are core guys.   

My argument is not that small players can't succeed in the NHL.   Of course, many can.   

I just don't believe in investing big dollars on small wingers.    Championship rosters are rarely built around small wingers. 

There have been a few exceptions (ie Patrick Kane, Gourde, Theo Fleury, St. Louis etc). 

But without exception these teams have also contained big powerful centres and elite defenders.  And almost without exception, the team added the small, scoring winger after assembling the other core players first.

So let me ask the question then: If the cat is 6'+ and he continues to score and plays similar game then you invest big dollars? I am sorry I do not see what else you want man to do. It seems you have a vision or some type of stereotype that a winger must be "bigger" to succeed and be paid. The last time I checked you win by scoring goals and this player does that and will continue to that for quite some time. These guys regardless of their size do not grow on tress. Let's say we switch Cat with Dach on the power play and he receives all those same "beautiful" mattress passes by 88, does Dach score at the same clip?, be honest. My point is Cat is a pure goal scorer and you need them on your team and you do all to keep them. Btw, I still hope that Dach finds his game, it is a shame what the previous regime did to this young man's confidence.

[mvr]

Nikos: If Debrincat played the power winger game and could score (Hossa, Sharp), I might be more tempted to keep him.

The issue with scorers is that they peak early. Many have their most productive seasons in their early to mid twenties. Now of course there are exceptions - Patrick Kane, Martin St. Louis. But as a general rule, goal scorers peak far before defencemen, centres, power wingers and goalies.

To succeed in the cap era, you need to plan it so that your entire core peaks at once before they all get paid the big dollars. This is now you win.

So the smart approach is to build the foundation of defence, centre, power winger and goalie first. Add the scorers at the end.

[Nikos]

Mar 24, 2022 18:33:47 GMT -6 mvr said:

Nikos: If Debrincat played the power winger game and could score (Hossa, Sharp), I might be more tempted to keep him.

The issue with scorers is that they peak early. Many have their most productive seasons in their early to mid twenties. Now of course there are exceptions - Patrick Kane, Martin St. Louis. But as a general rule, goal scorers peak far before defencemen, centres, power wingers and goalies.

To succeed in the cap era, you need to plan it so that your entire core peaks at once before they all get paid the big dollars. This is now you win.

So the smart approach is to build the foundation of defence, centre, power winger and goalie first. Add the scorers at the end.

First, I agree building a team down the middle is the smart and prudent approach, however you do not get rid of players that do not fit a certain mold. 

I also "love Hossa & Sharp" and appreciate what they did for the three cups. Hossa played the 200' game, not show sure Sharp would be in that category, he was a minus player in the 2014-2015 cup season and never scored 40 goals, which D-cat has once already and sure to do this year and more in his future.

The cat plays his heart out, defends his teammates and plays bigger than his size. Tell me what else you want the guy to do besides grow 4-5 inches? He is a guy that can beat you with one shot. He is not just a scoring winger, he is an elite scorer. The goals he scores count the same that a "heavy winger" scores driving the net or off deflections. 

[Tater]

Mar 24, 2022 16:22:45 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Mar 24, 2022 15:02:49 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

I always thumbs up any mention of HOSSA.

Hossa?

Yes, Hossa.

[mvr]

Mar 24, 2022 21:01:11 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 18:33:47 GMT -6 mvr said:

Nikos: If Debrincat played the power winger game and could score (Hossa, Sharp), I might be more tempted to keep him.

The issue with scorers is that they peak early. Many have their most productive seasons in their early to mid twenties. Now of course there are exceptions - Patrick Kane, Martin St. Louis. But as a general rule, goal scorers peak far before defencemen, centres, power wingers and goalies.

To succeed in the cap era, you need to plan it so that your entire core peaks at once before they all get paid the big dollars. This is now you win.

So the smart approach is to build the foundation of defence, centre, power winger and goalie first. Add the scorers at the end.

First, I agree building a team down the middle is the smart and prudent approach, however you do not get rid of players that do not fit a certain mold. 

I also "love Hossa & Sharp" and appreciate what they did for the three cups. Hossa played the 200' game, not show sure Sharp would be in that category, he was a minus player in the 2014-2015 cup season and never scored 40 goals, which D-cat has once already and sure to do this year and more in his future.

The cat plays his heart out, defends his teammates and plays bigger than his size. Tell me what else you want the guy to do besides grow 4-5 inches? He is a guy that can beat you with one shot. He is not just a scoring winger, he is an elite scorer. The goals he scores count the same that a "heavy winger" scores driving the net or off deflections. 

There is nothing else Debrincat can do (other than accept a short term below market contract with no NTC).  He is a great scorer, and he plays the right way.

But he will never intimidate, even though he engages.   He lacks the wingspan to reach around bigger defenders.   He works hard defensively, but he lacks the size to angle out opposing scorers.

He is a quality player - no doubt -  but in the wrong place at the wrong time.   This is it.

If the Hawks were a few years further along in their rebuild, I would keep him.   

They aren't.    They need help everywhere, but especially on defence.   Debrincat has -by far - the most trade value on the team.   Contending teams will want him to put them over the top.   You trade him now at peak value.   You wait until after the next contract, and the asset diminishes dramatically.

Big T talks about the problem of team's hovering in that dreaded middle tier where they are neither rebuilding, nor challenging.   Let's be honest - Toews has zero trade value until the next deadline (and even then, the return will be disappointing).   I keep Kane as opposed to Debrincat because he is likely to sign short term deals moving forward which provides the team some flexibility.  Seth Jones can't be traded because of the contract.  Dach remains young enough to see through an extended rebuild.

Debrincat's contract is up next year which means the team must make a decision. He is certainly able to command a big money long deal deal with a NTC/NMC
No players during the early part of a rebuild should be signed to long term NTC/NMC deals.   This is the issue and always has been.

[mvr]

In an earlier era, GM Mike Smith had to make a similar decision with Tony Amonte, the Hawks' star player of the early 2000s.

The Hawks were rebuilding, and needed help everywhere. Amonte was the team's leading scorer and best player by far.

Smith wanted to trade Amonte before the player hit UFA (which was the right decision).

Unfortunately, the team that year overachieved under Brent Sutter and were in that dreaded middle posiiton.   Smith waited too long, and then kept Amonte as a "rental." The team did not survive the first round.

Amonte got his $7 M contract with Calgary. Chicago wasted a valuable trade asset, and then the remaining veterans got old and the team got worse.   

The difference here is that Debrincat will be an RFA. But I maintain that the situation is similar. Debrincat's next contract is the big one.

[BigT]

Mar 25, 2022 5:52:49 GMT -6 mvr said:

In an earlier era, GM Mike Smith had to make a similar decision with Tony Amonte, the Hawks' star player of the early 2000s.

The Hawks were rebuilding, and needed help everywhere. Amonte was the team's leading scorer and best player by far.

Smith wanted to trade Amonte before the player hit UFA (which was the right decision).

Unfortunately, the team that year overachieved under Brent Sutter and were in that dreaded middle posiiton.   Smith waited too long, and then kept Amonte as a "rental." The team did not survive the first round.

Amonte got his $7 M contract with Calgary. Chicago wasted a valuable trade asset, and then the remaining veterans got old and the team got worse.   

The difference here is that Debrincat will be an RFA. But I maintain that the situation is similar. Debrincat's next contract is the big one.

I think first they have to figure out if it’s a full rebuild, or just tank for a couple years? I’m not sure what they’re doing as of yet. We can talk about what we’d do. But I have a sneaky suspicion that the Org doesn’t want to fully do this. I think they’re looking for a few high picks and load up on picks/prospects for 2-3 years then try and form a team outta that. Kinda like what NJ has done. They got 2 first overalls in a 3 year span and they made a lot of trades and signed free agents.

A Wirtz is a Wirtz is a Wirtz. They’ll want money coming in soon. But let’s hope they allow a full rebuild to happen!!!

[vadarx]

Mar 25, 2022 6:16:25 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 25, 2022 5:52:49 GMT -6 mvr said:

In an earlier era, GM Mike Smith had to make a similar decision with Tony Amonte, the Hawks' star player of the early 2000s.

The Hawks were rebuilding, and needed help everywhere. Amonte was the team's leading scorer and best player by far.

Smith wanted to trade Amonte before the player hit UFA (which was the right decision).

Unfortunately, the team that year overachieved under Brent Sutter and were in that dreaded middle posiiton.   Smith waited too long, and then kept Amonte as a "rental." The team did not survive the first round.

Amonte got his $7 M contract with Calgary. Chicago wasted a valuable trade asset, and then the remaining veterans got old and the team got worse.   

The difference here is that Debrincat will be an RFA. But I maintain that the situation is similar. Debrincat's next contract is the big one.

I think first they have to figure out if it’s a full rebuild, or just tank for a couple years? I’m not sure what they’re doing as of yet. We can talk about what we’d do. But I have a sneaky suspicion that the Org doesn’t want to fully do this. I think they’re looking for a few high picks and load up on picks/prospects for 2-3 years then try and form a team outta that. Kinda like what NJ has done. They got 2 first overalls in a 3 year span and they made a lot of trades and signed free agents.

A Wirtz is a Wirtz is a Wirtz. They’ll want money coming in soon. But let’s hope they allow a full rebuild to happen!!!

you answered your question from the first sentence with you statement in your last...

gotta have some asses in the seats. I'll believe they trade the Cat or 88 when I see it...

[BigT]

Mar 25, 2022 7:36:02 GMT -6 vadarx said:

Mar 25, 2022 6:16:25 GMT -6 BigT said:

I think first they have to figure out if it’s a full rebuild, or just tank for a couple years? I’m not sure what they’re doing as of yet. We can talk about what we’d do. But I have a sneaky suspicion that the Org doesn’t want to fully do this. I think they’re looking for a few high picks and load up on picks/prospects for 2-3 years then try and form a team outta that. Kinda like what NJ has done. They got 2 first overalls in a 3 year span and they made a lot of trades and signed free agents.

A Wirtz is a Wirtz is a Wirtz. They’ll want money coming in soon. But let’s hope they allow a full rebuild to happen!!!

you answered your question from the first sentence with you statement in your last...

gotta have some asses in the seats. I'll believe they trade the Cat or 88 when I see it...

If you’re right. The Hawks rebuild won’t start till they let 19/88 walk away free agents. So it won’t even be next year. They’ll decimate the roster a little more, but it won’t be until the top dogs are gone.

I just don’t see where good players will come from? Free agents cost too much. We have not much of value to trade except the players we just mentioned. So I have to think they agree to part ways and accept a trade!!!

[hsbob]

Mar 24, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 10:21:26 GMT -6 mvr said:

You have named just about every one of them.   Perhaps add Fleury to the list.   There are not many more.

Brendan Gallagher, Viktor Arvidsson, Cam Atkinson, Mats Zuccarello, Jonathan Marchessault, Yanni Gourde, maybe not superstars but all are effective players and needed to win the ultimate prize. I believe you can make an argument with the Caufield kid as well. You throw in the D-cat and he is right at the top of this list if not #1. 

Lack of size can be a detriment as I point out myself when said small player is unable to dig for pucks,go to the tough areas or stay healthy....Alex DeBrincat happens to EXCELL at these things which makes his size a total non-issue.  

[hsbob]

Mar 24, 2022 17:54:57 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Mar 24, 2022 16:09:37 GMT -6 mvr said:

There are small players in the league.   Some are very good players.   A few are core guys.   

My argument is not that small players can't succeed in the NHL.   Of course, many can.   

I just don't believe in investing big dollars on small wingers.    Championship rosters are rarely built around small wingers. 

There have been a few exceptions (ie Patrick Kane, Gourde, Theo Fleury, St. Louis etc). 

But without exception these teams have also contained big powerful centres and elite defenders.  And almost without exception, the team added the small, scoring winger after assembling the other core players first.

So let me ask the question then: If the cat is 6'+ and he continues to score and plays similar game then you invest big dollars? I am sorry I do not see what else you want man to do. It seems you have a vision or some type of stereotype that a winger must be "bigger" to succeed and be paid. The last time I checked you win by scoring goals and this player does that and will continue to that for quite some time. These guys regardless of their size do not grow on tress. Let's say we switch Cat with Dach on the power play and he receives all those same "beautiful" mattress passes by 88, does Dach score at the same clip?, be honest. My point is Cat is a pure goal scorer and you need them on your team and you do all to keep them. Btw, I still hope that Dach finds his game, it is a shame what the previous regime did to this young man's confidence.

If the kid was 6' 190lbs+,he'd be un F'ing stoppable.......he pretty much is now.  

[OldTimeHawky]

Mar 25, 2022 10:09:43 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Mar 24, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -6 Nikos said:

Brendan Gallagher, Viktor Arvidsson, Cam Atkinson, Mats Zuccarello, Jonathan Marchessault, Yanni Gourde, maybe not superstars but all are effective players and needed to win the ultimate prize. I believe you can make an argument with the Caufield kid as well. You throw in the D-cat and he is right at the top of this list if not #1. 

Lack of size can be a detriment as I point out myself when said small player is unable to dig for pucks,go to the tough areas or stay healthy....Alex DeBrincat happens to EXCELL at these things which makes his size a total non-issue.  

I loved how Debrincat went after the 6'5" 220lb Byfield after he took that cross check and when he had a chance he hit him behind the net and knocked him off balance.

The Cat is like a pitbull and I don't know how but he hits hard for his size. His first NHL game vs Pitts he hit a dman who was 6'2" 220lbs and put him on his ass.

So yeah, his size is a non issue. Plus he uses a long stick to give him more reach, which makes his shot more impressive because he can get a lot on it from almost any position.

[hsbob]

Mar 25, 2022 8:06:38 GMT -6 BigT said:

Mar 25, 2022 7:36:02 GMT -6 vadarx said:

you answered your question from the first sentence with you statement in your last...

gotta have some asses in the seats. I'll believe they trade the Cat or 88 when I see it...

If you’re right. The Hawks rebuild won’t start till they let 19/88 walk away free agents. So it won’t even be next year. They’ll decimate the roster a little more, but it won’t be until the top dogs are gone.

I just don’t see where good players will come from? Free agents cost too much. We have not much of value to trade except the players we just mentioned. So I have to think they agree to part ways and accept a trade!!!

I'll tell ya what T,UFA's just like trades or draft picks are what a team makes of em. The summer of 19 saw DUMBASS trade for grossly overpaid D-men and give away assets on top of it while a non go to Montreal signed Ben Chairot for 3.5M as an URA. He helped the Habs reach the SCF and then brought a ton back in assets when they moved him at the TDL.........we're still payin' Matta and deHAAN-job's untradable.

Phillip Denault is also an EXCELLENT UFA signing..........EXCELLENT! We'll pay Tyler 'plastic neck' Johnson a half a million less than Denault the next two years.....YIKES!  
 

[Tater]

Mar 25, 2022 10:24:24 GMT -6 OldTimeHawky said:

I loved how Debrincat went after the 6'5" 220lb Byfield after he took that cross check and when he had a chance he hit him behind the net and knocked him off balance.

The Cat is like a pitbull and I don't know how but he hits hard for his size. His first NHL game vs Pitts he hit a dman who was 6'2" 220lbs and put him on his ass.

So yeah, his size is a non issue. Plus he uses a long stick to give him more reach, which makes his shot more impressive because he can get a lot on it from almost any position.

Great post. It's a shame Strome doesn't feed off it, instaed he plays so timid along the boards. Especially forechecking.

[hsbob]

Mar 25, 2022 10:24:24 GMT -6 OldTimeHawky said:

Mar 25, 2022 10:09:43 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Lack of size can be a detriment as I point out myself when said small player is unable to dig for pucks,go to the tough areas or stay healthy....Alex DeBrincat happens to EXCELL at these things which makes his size a total non-issue.  

I loved how Debrincat went after the 6'5" 220lb Byfield after he took that cross check and when he had a chance he hit him behind the net and knocked him off balance.

The Cat is like a pitbull and I don't know how but he hits hard for his size. His first NHL game vs Pitts he hit a dman who was 6'2" 220lbs and put him on his ass.

So yeah, his size is a non issue. Plus he uses a long stick to give him more reach, which makes his shot more impressive because he can get a lot on it from almost any position.

And he was all that right from the get go OTH! How big could the kid have been going into the OHL @16?  Didn't matter...... he dominated. Startin' for Q as a 19yro.....didn't matter. The much bigger Byfield didn't know what to do.......lotta fight in that Lil dog!

If we were talking about a selfish,skate around waitin' for the puck kinda guy,I'd say so and if he were another small timid player you KNOW I'd say so.........D-Cat is the polar opposite of these things! 

[BigT]

Mar 25, 2022 10:36:30 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Mar 25, 2022 8:06:38 GMT -6 BigT said:

If you’re right. The Hawks rebuild won’t start till they let 19/88 walk away free agents. So it won’t even be next year. They’ll decimate the roster a little more, but it won’t be until the top dogs are gone.

I just don’t see where good players will come from? Free agents cost too much. We have not much of value to trade except the players we just mentioned. So I have to think they agree to part ways and accept a trade!!!

I'll tell ya what T,UFA's just like trades or draft picks are what a team makes of em. The summer of 19 saw DUMBASS trade for grossly overpaid D-men and give away assets on top of it while a non go to Montreal signed Ben Chairot for 3.5M as an URA. He helped the Habs reach the SCF and then brought a ton back in assets when they moved him at the TDL.........we're still payin' Matta and deHAAN-job's untradable.

Phillip Denault is also an EXCELLENT UFA signing..........EXCELLENT! We'll pay Tyler 'plastic neck' Johnson a half a million less than Denault the next two years.....YIKES!  
 

Solid points. There’s only one guy that can fail that hard. Only one!!!