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Post by mvr on Mar 17, 2023 9:38:58 GMT -6
One other point about Caleb -
People do forget the growing pains Duncan Keith went through in his first few years in the league. He was well into his mid-twenties before he had the confidence not to overplay situations and manage the game.
I am not suggesting Caleb Jones will be a Norris Trophy winner. But I do think we need to be patient with him and give him the space to develop. My feeling is that the tide is turning - fast.
In his last 10 games, Caleb Jones is a +5.
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Post by BigT on Mar 17, 2023 10:49:37 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree.
My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable.
I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad?
Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan.
What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!!
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Post by 2old4this on Mar 17, 2023 12:36:05 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! Well put. You'd think that Davidson could do more to encourage giving more time to players in the minors. Bring em up for a test drive, so to speak. And I'm sure there is a GT who could stand some scrutiny for a game or two at this level. Surly this team can find some more innovative ways to lose. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 17, 2023 14:26:19 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! I do think Reichel needs to be back in Rockford ASAP for this exact reason. The main problem preventing a full on tank is that the defence and goaltending is so much improved starting the new year. The Jones brothers are both playing exceptionally well (Seth has rediscovered his all-star form). Murphy/Tinordi is holding serve. Stalock in net provides a great deal of confidence because of how well he plays the puck. Unless the coach benches one or more of these players, the Hawks will be competitive most nights. Davidson likely did not do enough at the deadline to ensure a high pick. Murphy, without question, should have been traded away. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Mar 17, 2023 16:26:34 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! The preds did not become the preds from 1 year. They missed on there core 4. Josi and Berg are studs, but Johnson and Duch. always had a rep of when the tough times came they left. They went for the wrong superstars. As far as playing the kids Luke is not gonna do that and some little kid is not gonna tell him to, transparence has its disadvantages and KD is on record he will not interfere with how Luke uses his players. Its kinda funny most times KD has tried to make worse it has backfired look at Joey A. As far as the roster next season who knows all I can say is the Hawks have only done the easy part so far thats to sell off everyone. Also T I do agree with you on Edmonton. |
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Post by vadarx on Mar 17, 2023 18:57:55 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! just so we are clear here, you are picking the Oilers to win the Cup this year? |
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Post by squishy24 on Mar 17, 2023 21:27:21 GMT -6
Do you guys wish that your flying carpet only goes 30mph so you dont fall off? Why pull any punches and just go for the knockout punch?
If you really want to tank, pull the goalie and go with 6 skaters in the last 10min of the game regardless of whos leading.
If nothing else, it will piss off Bettman and prove to him that he is wrong about “nobody tanks in NHL”
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Post by hsbob on Mar 18, 2023 11:04:59 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! I do think Reichel needs to be back in Rockford ASAP for this exact reason. The main problem preventing a full on tank is that the defence and goaltending is so much improved starting the new year. The Jones brothers are both playing exceptionally well (Seth has rediscovered his all-star form). Murphy/Tinordi is holding serve. Stalock in net provides a great deal of confidence because of how well he plays the puck. Unless the coach benches one or more of these players, the Hawks will be competitive most nights.
Davidson likely did not do enough at the deadline to ensure a high pick. Murphy, without question, should have been traded away. To the bolded. We've all discussed the 'right player-wrong time' aspect of trading some very talented,young payers and the team's rebuild time-line last summer,now fast forward 8 months...... The youngest player you mentioned,C Jones will be 26 to start next year and 31 in five years and the oldest,Stalock will be 40 and to be honest.......I could do without the confidence he provides in net AND the veteran roster that's competitive most nights stuff too.......this was NOT the plan. The "All-Star" S Jones is used to and comfortable being the ONLY star player on a bottom-feeder w/o any pressure to perform and it shows. He's 29 to start next year and 34 in 5 years,UBER-expensive when re-do's will be coming,worn-out and untradable at that point with no hope for a buy-out either with his bonuses.......right time?  ? Beating a few good teams with all the pesky cup winners gone seems to have brought a lotta joy to 'Mudville'.......I don't get it. I would get it if it was being done with a young team vs a veteran roster though. LR's defensive system is impressive but I'll be more impressed when I see kids executing it because I thought that was the plan too. If the main problems preventing a tank are defense and goaltending,then why send Reichel down for the 3rd time this year? Do you believe he's played well enough to stay up? Do you anticipate a mostly veteran team again next year? Do you expect different results if it is a mostly veteran team? Was this the "right-time" aspect we spoke of not long ago? |
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Post by mvr on Mar 18, 2023 12:41:47 GMT -6
I do think Reichel needs to be back in Rockford ASAP for this exact reason. The main problem preventing a full on tank is that the defence and goaltending is so much improved starting the new year. The Jones brothers are both playing exceptionally well (Seth has rediscovered his all-star form). Murphy/Tinordi is holding serve. Stalock in net provides a great deal of confidence because of how well he plays the puck. Unless the coach benches one or more of these players, the Hawks will be competitive most nights.
Davidson likely did not do enough at the deadline to ensure a high pick. Murphy, without question, should have been traded away. To the bolded. We've all discussed the 'right player-wrong time' aspect of trading some very talented,young payers and the team's rebuild time-line last summer,now fast forward 8 months...... The youngest player you mentioned,C Jones will be 26 to start next year and 31 in five years and the oldest,Stalock will be 40 and to be honest.......I could do without the confidence he provides in net AND the veteran roster that's competitive most nights stuff too.......this was NOT the plan. The "All-Star" S Jones is used to and comfortable being the ONLY star player on a bottom-feeder w/o any pressure to perform and it shows. He's 29 to start next year and 34 in 5 years,UBER-expensive when re-do's will be coming,worn-out and untradable at that point with no hope for a buy-out either with his bonuses.......right time? ? Beating a few good teams with all the pesky cup winners gone seems to have brought a lotta joy to 'Mudville'.......I don't get it. I would get it if it was being done with a young team vs a veteran roster though. LR's defensive system is impressive but I'll be more impressed when I see kids executing it because I thought that was the plan too. If the main problems preventing a tank are defense and goaltending,then why send Reichel down for the 3rd time this year? Do you believe he's played well enough to stay up? Do you anticipate a mostly veteran team again next year? Do you expect different results if it is a mostly veteran team? Was this the "right-time" aspect we spoke of not long ago? I think this is the last year of the full tank. Next year, several of the kids should be in the lineup. Regarding the Jones' brothers-- What is done is done and can't be reversed. My belief is that both will be here through the majority of the rebuild if for no other reason than because Seth's contract is basically unmoveable. We are stuck with the contract and might as well make the best of it (which means keeping Caleb). If this is the reality, I am thrilled to see Seth's game rebound and Caleb emerge. Both are playing much better. Am I happy to see the team play better and ruin their chances for a high pick? Absolutely not. But what can be done about it now? This happens every year to one organization or another. Davidson traded most of what he could at the deadline.... I was hoping he would have unloaded more (in particular, Conner Murphy but Stalock and Tyler Johnson as well). Obviously, the coach can't bench veteran players who are playing well. Reichel is proving to be NHL ready. Nevertheless, the general manager can justify demoting the player at some point to help Rockford get into the playoffs. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Mar 18, 2023 12:45:46 GMT -6
Beating a few good teams with all the pesky cup winners gone seems to have brought a lotta joy to 'Mudville'.......I don't get it. I would get it if it was being done with a young team vs a veteran roster though. LR's defensive system is impressive but I'll be more impressed when I see kids executing it because I thought that was the plan too. Oh man - that's great. Got me laughing ... and agreeing. Believe me - I'm and old Mudville Hen and despite my brain tsk-tsk'ing my heart and saying naughty naughty ... I'm getting some level of joy out of seeing these cast outs overachieving not unlike the latest two expansion teams winning more than anyone thought possible. Maybe it's the rooting for the underdog thing? But yeah - they're screwing up the tank so stop it already. |
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Post by BigT on Mar 18, 2023 13:40:34 GMT -6
MVR, you’re not wrong in your assessment of how players will get better with time and opportunities. I fully agree. My concern is becoming the Nashville Predators. They have absolutely no star power and never have. I get that people say look at Edmonton. Sure look at them. Their stars are still young. They’ve got plenty of time to win. And I believe they will this year. They’ve got all the guns and now their defense seems to be much more stable. I’ll take the stars over regular players any day. This years is very important for a rebuild. That’s why the roster was torn apart to get a top pick. Maybe not the top pick, but picking later than 3 I believe will set the franchise back years. We all know not having that number one Center is a must. The top 3 project to be just that. What is the point to being bad, but not that bad? Now is the time to play younger kids in all situations. I know you like the pairing of the Jones bros. But either spilt them up, and try out younger kids there. Or don’t give the most special teams work to them. Use this year to try out everyone. Yes the team will lose, it’s ok. That’s the plan. What we see happening is the same as the Vegas inaugural season. A bunch of castaways looking for a shot. And the Hawks may just find some keepers through all of this. But getting wins is not the most important. At all!!! just so we are clear here, you are picking the Oilers to win the Cup this year? Yup. That team has a lot of the boxes checked. Especially a weakened east by the end of the conference finals!!! |
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Post by mvr on Mar 18, 2023 14:50:16 GMT -6
At some point, Davidson needs to make a decision regarding the goaltending next year.
My feeling is that Soderblom will be on the roster.
Given his inconsistency and the groin problems, it might be best to buy out Mrazek (at $1.5 M/year spread over two years).
Do you re-sign Stalock? I do. I believe a two year deal at $2 M/year gets it done.
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 18, 2023 15:17:49 GMT -6
Do you re-sign Stalock? I do. I believe a two year deal at $2 M/year gets it done. i never thought i'd be a fan of a goalie of his stature but i agree. i think he'd jump at 2 million. 13 years as a pro and he's only made over a million/year for 2 years. (1.6 million in 14/15 and 15/16 as a shark) listening to a recent zawaski podcast, prior to this season he was hoping at best for a call from europe. when his agent said chicago had called he was happily surprised. seems to me he had about given up on playing in the nhl at age 35 with his recent health issues. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Mar 18, 2023 15:25:02 GMT -6
At some point, Davidson needs to make a decision regarding the goaltending next year. My feeling is that Soderblom will be on the roster. Given his inconsistency and the groin problems, it might be best to buy out Mrazek (at $1.5 M/year spread over two years). Do you re-sign Stalock? I do. I believe a two year deal at $2 M/year gets it done. I would love to resign Lock just for the entertainment value. |
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Post by mvr on Mar 18, 2023 15:35:12 GMT -6
It might be cost-effective to buyout Mrazek and use the savings to resign Stalock. With Soderblom as the backup, the Hawks would be spending about the game on goaltending next year as they are right now (including the buyout).
My eyes tell me Stalock is more consistent. The defence appear more confident playing with him in nets and helping with zone clears.
Both Mrazek and Stalock carry similar health risks. If I am Davidson, re-signing Stalock now is my top priority.
Stalock represents a short term plug until one of the younger goalies is ready for full time duties.
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Post by vadarx on Mar 18, 2023 15:59:50 GMT -6
just so we are clear here, you are picking the Oilers to win the Cup this year? Yup. That team has a lot of the boxes checked. Especially a weakened east by the end of the conference finals!!! I'll take that bet. what's the wager? |
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Post by vadarx on Mar 18, 2023 16:02:14 GMT -6
At some point, Davidson needs to make a decision regarding the goaltending next year. My feeling is that Soderblom will be on the roster. Given his inconsistency and the groin problems, it might be best to buy out Mrazek (at $1.5 M/year spread over two years). Do you re-sign Stalock? I do. I believe a two year deal at $2 M/year gets it done. me thinks both are back next year, although they might let Lock go if only cuz he keeps winning games, lol... I doubt they get rid of Mrazek, his injury history makes him desirable, imo. we need to lose big for another season or 2, so having your #1 on IR half the time helps the cause... |
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Post by steamer on Mar 18, 2023 16:56:37 GMT -6
I like seeing the youth join the team and playing but they also need and will have veterans. They need some salaries besides Seth’s for one thing to meet the floor. But they don’t have enough young guys who are ready yet. They will get there and I hope they have some patience in bringing them along at the right time. Luke has said he knows what the plan is so while he as a coach may be more comfortable with vets (what coach wouldn’t?) he knows youngsters are coming to join the team. I don’t see any problem with it at all. That’s the plan.
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Post by BigT on Mar 18, 2023 18:11:12 GMT -6
Yup. That team has a lot of the boxes checked. Especially a weakened east by the end of the conference finals!!! I'll take that bet. what's the wager? Did you post this before or after Kane’s Hatty? If I can make it to Chicago, and I’m sure we can make something work over the holidays next year. I’ll get the tickets for a game if I lose. You make it to Detroit for a Hawks game and you get the tix. I’ll even see if Boogey can get tix at a discounted price for ya!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Mar 18, 2023 23:09:47 GMT -6
I'll take that bet. what's the wager? Did you post this before or after Kane’s Hatty? If I can make it to Chicago, and I’m sure we can make something work over the holidays next year. I’ll get the tickets for a game if I lose. You make it to Detroit for a Hawks game and you get the tix. I’ll even see if Boogey can get tix at a discounted price for ya!!! well, I'd go for that if I knew where I would actually be next holiday season, lol. if it were Chicago, I'd be down, but i don't see that happening. I would like to see a game at the pizza rink, though... lemme think of something. and yes, that was after Kane’s hatty today, I believe anyway. it wouldn't matter cuz I'd still make a bet on it. I watched about half of that game. the oil had 23 shots and won 6-4. ie, Seattle's goalies are shite. I am not saying I don't think they'll win a round or two, but I do think they are going to struggle eventually with their shitty defense. Skinner is going to have to be awesome for them to win it all. |
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Post by hsbob on Mar 19, 2023 9:25:12 GMT -6
I like seeing the youth join the team and playing but they also need and will have veterans. They need some salaries besides Seth’s for one thing to meet the floor. But they don’t have enough young guys who are ready yet. They will get there and I hope they have some patience in bringing them along at the right time. Luke has said he knows what the plan is so while he as a coach may be more comfortable with vets (what coach wouldn’t?) he knows youngsters are coming to join the team. I don’t see any problem with it at all. That’s the plan. I wonder if Vlasic,Regula and Mitchell(don't know why I'm including him)would agree with you when I look at their ages. S Jones,Murph and Zaitsez are almost certainly back and C Jones as well,maybe Tinordi and Englund too? A lot of upcoming,young D-stock could easily rotate over this group of early 20's D-men with little opportunity to prove themselves after payin' their dues......whatever. I'd like to at least see a few more kids sprinkled in as we go along,watching a group that won't even be here in 2-3yrs in hopes they lose every night is losing what little appeal it had for me.....fast. I will endure another tank season and the 'warm-bodies' that go with it but I also want to see how LR coaches,teaches and develops a young team.......nothing will matter more IMO. |
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