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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 31, 2020 13:46:46 GMT -6
With all the forecasting in the posts above about destinations for Kane, it seems hard to believe that it won't happen. It makes sense for all involved----Kane, the Hawks and the destination team. There is no good reason for Kane to stick around with the Hawks and suffer through dead seasons with no enjoyment. The Hawks aren't going anywhere with Kane on the team, so they should get what they can for him, move on and rebuild for the future. The key would be getting good young players in return for him and not first round draft picks from teams that are a step away from contending and looking to take that step with Kane in their lineup. Those teams will not have good position first round draft picks to offer, so it is necessary, in my opinion, to get existing good young players, not draft picks as T suggested with his Buchnevich, Kakko and Miller trade with the Rangers. The Hawks need to find a team that is willing to mortgage its future and go for broke now with Kane.
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Post by vadarx on Dec 31, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -6
with the news about Toews coming out this week, I'd say his trade value dipped to a level that would make it unworthy of a move by the 'hawks. he should be here until his deal expires (and until he retires, imo). as it should be.
with that, I have to believe there is little chance they would move Kane now unless he asks to be, because he is the only thing they have to sell now with both Toews and Dach on the mend for likely this entire season. not that there will be fans to sell tickets to this year..... which you would think would make this the best time to move 88 and really dig into this rebuild, but I just don’t see it happening. I don't think Bowman has it in him to trade away his biggest money-maker....
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Post by BigT on Dec 31, 2020 15:12:45 GMT -6
t.co/ifiDVIpHQJI’ve read 3 of these today. Rumours they are, and this one is awful at best. But there’s been many many rumours out there. And where there’s smoke!!!
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Post by vadarx on Dec 31, 2020 15:19:55 GMT -6
t.co/ifiDVIpHQJI’ve read 3 of these today. Rumours they are, and this one is awful at best. But there’s been many many rumours out there. And where there’s smoke!!! if they made that trade, I would lead the protests outside the 'hawks offices in Chicago. what a garbage trade idea. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 31, 2020 17:56:14 GMT -6
with the news about Toews coming out this week, I'd say his trade value dipped to a level that would make it unworthy of a move by the 'hawks. he should be here until his deal expires (and until he retires, imo). as it should be. with that, I have to believe there is little chance they would move Kane now unless he asks to be, because he is the only thing they have to sell now with both Toews and Dach on the mend for likely this entire season. not that there will be fans to sell tickets to this year..... which you would think would make this the best time to move 88 and really dig into this rebuild, but I just don’t see it happening. I don't think Bowman has it in him to trade away his biggest money-maker.... So, Bowman would keep Kane around to sell #88 sweaters and t-shirts and sacrifice the future of the team by not trading him? To me, that would be another horrendous mistake by Bowman. This team will never go anywhere near the Cup with Kane on the team even with Toews back, so it is time to get some future assets for each of them, to the extent that Toews is tradeable at this point. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Dec 31, 2020 18:59:54 GMT -6
t.co/ifiDVIpHQJI’ve read 3 of these today. Rumours they are, and this one is awful at best. But there’s been many many rumours out there. And where there’s smoke!!! Puh Leeeze ! I wouldn't trade Strome for that. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Dec 31, 2020 19:08:38 GMT -6
with the news about Toews coming out this week, I'd say his trade value dipped to a level that would make it unworthy of a move by the 'hawks. he should be here until his deal expires (and until he retires, imo). as it should be. with that, I have to believe there is little chance they would move Kane now unless he asks to be, because he is the only thing they have to sell now with both Toews and Dach on the mend for likely this entire season. not that there will be fans to sell tickets to this year..... which you would think would make this the best time to move 88 and really dig into this rebuild, but I just don’t see it happening. I don't think Bowman has it in him to trade away his biggest money-maker.... So, Bowman would keep Kane around to sell #88 sweaters and t-shirts and sacrifice the future of the team by not trading him? To me, that would be another horrendous mistake by Bowman. This team will never go anywhere near the Cup with Kane on the team even with Toews back, so it is time to get some future assets for each of them, to the extent that Toews is tradeable at this point. I agree with this with the additional perspective that Kane has earned his NMC clause so if he wants to stay in Chicago I would have no problem with that. He just had his first child and I believe his girlfriend is from Chicago so that could influence his decision. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jan 1, 2021 8:41:13 GMT -6
I can see 2 sides to this, one is that if Toews, Kane, Seabs and Keith want to leave because of a rebuild or, two they stay to mentor the youth like they were mentored by vets before they went on to winning cups. Many of the vets that worked with them were gone by that time.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 1, 2021 12:52:50 GMT -6
So, Bowman would keep Kane around to sell #88 sweaters and t-shirts and sacrifice the future of the team by not trading him? To me, that would be another horrendous mistake by Bowman. This team will never go anywhere near the Cup with Kane on the team even with Toews back, so it is time to get some future assets for each of them, to the extent that Toews is tradeable at this point. I agree with this with the additional perspective that Kane has earned his NMC clause so if he wants to stay in Chicago I would have no problem with that. He just had his first child and I believe his girlfriend is from Chicago so that could influence his decision. I guess that is one of the benefits of a NMC clause. If the player simply wants to stay because he prefers the location of his present team, despite the fact that it is doomed to oblivion for the rest of his playing career, then so be it. The NMC was given and it has to be honored. But, it sure would not be much fun to play on such an awful team for the rest of one's career. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 1, 2021 12:56:50 GMT -6
I can see 2 sides to this, one is that if Toews, Kane, Seabs and Keith want to leave because of a rebuild or, two they stay to mentor the youth like they were mentored by vets before they went on to winning cups. Many of the vets that worked with them were gone by that time. The big problem with the mentoring approach is that the rebuild will be missing one-half of its force because even though the string of near last place finishes will ensure some good draft picks, the vets will not be traded for great young players. So, the rebuild only gets one-half of the potential young players that could be obtained. Then when the mentoring is over, the Hawks don't have all the young players they need to shine in the next generation. They are middle of the roaders at best. To me, it is either rebuild completely or survive on nostalgia for a decade, or two. Just ask the Islander or Oiler fans what that is like. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 1, 2021 16:00:25 GMT -6
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Post by ebonyraptor on Jan 1, 2021 17:11:26 GMT -6
I love Shawzie. He's been a joy to watch over the years. BUT - is he part of the youth movement? No. Hopefully he stays healthy but doesn't take up too much ice time that could be used for the young players. |
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Post by Tater on Jan 2, 2021 1:13:39 GMT -6
A healthy Shaw and Smith? Maybe Seebs? At least it might be an entertaining race to the bottom.
Edit: I'm happy all are healthy or close to it. I like all of them, especially Shaw. But this is no rebuild.
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Post by BigT on Jan 2, 2021 10:48:06 GMT -6
A healthy Shaw and Smith? Maybe Seebs? At least it might be an entertaining race to the bottom.
Edit: I'm happy all are healthy or close to it. I like all of them, especially Shaw. But this is no rebuild.
The truth of the matter is simply this. The Hawks are not set up for a rebuild or for a youth movement. This is not opinion, it’s absolute fact. The Hawks cupboards are bare. There is not much of value there. Even guys like Tim Soderlund and Sikura have fallen through the cracks and haven’t amounted to much and or are gone. The roster is filled with vets. That’s a fact. It’s really bad when a kid like Dach gets injured and the Hawks rebuild all of the sudden isn’t happening. This is a 7-10 year process regardless of what Stan says. So rebuilding takes about 2 years to rip it apart. Then about 4-5 of drafting and sucking. Look at LA. They dragged their feet in their rebuild too. Now they’ve only been at it for 2-3 years now. They still have a few years left till their anything relevant again. So whether we like it or not. The Hawks best chances to rebuild is to trade away 19, 88, 2, and a few others to maximize the future assets to get the ball rolling. It’s probably better to get newer voices in the room anyways. I’m pretty sure the old guard rules the room and it may be easier for the new wave to come in with no pressure on them, just like the current old guard had. It’s just time to move forward. Stan Bowman isn’t the right guy for this reason. He’s in love with the core guys, and he can’t come to the realization that it’s over and he seriously believes that their just a few young kids away. Boston made some hard decisions this year. They let Krug walk and Chara. They have some good kids there that they have to get positions for and opportunity. And they’re doing it now. Hawks need a new set of eyes on this. Like Boston and LA have done!!! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Jan 2, 2021 11:47:29 GMT -6
A healthy Shaw and Smith? Maybe Seebs? At least it might be an entertaining race to the bottom.
Edit: I'm happy all are healthy or close to it. I like all of them, especially Shaw. But this is no rebuild.
The truth of the matter is simply this. The Hawks are not set up for a rebuild or for a youth movement. This is not opinion, it’s absolute fact. The Hawks cupboards are bare. There is not much of value there. Even guys like Tim Soderlund and Sikura have fallen through the cracks and haven’t amounted to much and or are gone. The roster is filled with vets. That’s a fact. It’s really bad when a kid like Dach gets injured and the Hawks rebuild all of the sudden isn’t happening. This is a 7-10 year process regardless of what Stan says. So rebuilding takes about 2 years to rip it apart. Then about 4-5 of drafting and sucking. Look at LA. They dragged their feet in their rebuild too. Now they’ve only been at it for 2-3 years now. They still have a few years left till their anything relevant again. So whether we like it or not. The Hawks best chances to rebuild is to trade away 19, 88, 2, and a few others to maximize the future assets to get the ball rolling. It’s probably better to get newer voices in the room anyways. I’m pretty sure the old guard rules the room and it may be easier for the new wave to come in with no pressure on them, just like the current old guard had. It’s just time to move forward. Stan Bowman isn’t the right guy for this reason. He’s in love with the core guys, and he can’t come to the realization that it’s over and he seriously believes that their just a few young kids away. Boston made some hard decisions this year. They let Krug walk and Chara. They have some good kids there that they have to get positions for and opportunity. And they’re doing it now. Hawks need a new set of eyes on this. Like Boston and LA have done!!! I think the 7-10 year timeline is a little pessimistic for my taste - you could be proven correct, but I'm hopeful it will be more in the 4-5 year range - albeit that requires a lot of things to go "our way". I'm also in disagreement that our prospect cupboard is bare, specifically with Dach and Boqvist already in the NHL and Mitchell slotted to there this season and Reichel in another year or two. Having said that - our prospect cupboard doth not overfloweth - that's for sure. Boston is an interesting case, especially when compared to L.A. and the Hawks. A major factor for Boston remaining competitive while the Hawks and Kings have not is the salary cap. L.A. and the Hawks both have two mega contracts and Boston does not. When Boston got lucky and Pastrnak fell to them in the draft they didn't need to trade him or other key pieces when his ELC expired because they had a better salary structure. Having their core players reasonably priced allowed them to keep/add supplemental players to keep them at a high level. The Hawks have been subtracting those types of core/supplemental players for years where even when they get lucky and find Panarin they couldn't keep him for salary cap reasons. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 2, 2021 14:36:33 GMT -6
A healthy Shaw and Smith? Maybe Seebs? At least it might be an entertaining race to the bottom.
Edit: I'm happy all are healthy or close to it. I like all of them, especially Shaw. But this is no rebuild.
The truth of the matter is simply this. The Hawks are not set up for a rebuild or for a youth movement. This is not opinion, it’s absolute fact. The Hawks cupboards are bare. There is not much of value there. Even guys like Tim Soderlund and Sikura have fallen through the cracks and haven’t amounted to much and or are gone. The roster is filled with vets. That’s a fact. It’s really bad when a kid like Dach gets injured and the Hawks rebuild all of the sudden isn’t happening. This is a 7-10 year process regardless of what Stan says. So rebuilding takes about 2 years to rip it apart. Then about 4-5 of drafting and sucking. Look at LA. They dragged their feet in their rebuild too. Now they’ve only been at it for 2-3 years now. They still have a few years left till their anything relevant again. So whether we like it or not. The Hawks best chances to rebuild is to trade away 19, 88, 2, and a few others to maximize the future assets to get the ball rolling. It’s probably better to get newer voices in the room anyways. I’m pretty sure the old guard rules the room and it may be easier for the new wave to come in with no pressure on them, just like the current old guard had. It’s just time to move forward. Stan Bowman isn’t the right guy for this reason. He’s in love with the core guys, and he can’t come to the realization that it’s over and he seriously believes that their just a few young kids away. Boston made some hard decisions this year. They let Krug walk and Chara. They have some good kids there that they have to get positions for and opportunity. And they’re doing it now. Hawks need a new set of eyes on this. Like Boston and LA have done!!! I totally agree that 19, 88 and 2 need to go not because they are not good players, but because they are and their real value now is to be traded for good younger players. The idea that they could be kept around to lead some younger players back to Cupland has been proven to have zero value, so the next step is to trade them and let the true rebuild proceed, but not under Bowman. Even then, success is not guaranteed as any Oiler or Islander fan will tell you. |
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Post by BigT on Jan 2, 2021 17:05:25 GMT -6
The truth of the matter is simply this. The Hawks are not set up for a rebuild or for a youth movement. This is not opinion, it’s absolute fact. The Hawks cupboards are bare. There is not much of value there. Even guys like Tim Soderlund and Sikura have fallen through the cracks and haven’t amounted to much and or are gone. The roster is filled with vets. That’s a fact. It’s really bad when a kid like Dach gets injured and the Hawks rebuild all of the sudden isn’t happening. This is a 7-10 year process regardless of what Stan says. So rebuilding takes about 2 years to rip it apart. Then about 4-5 of drafting and sucking. Look at LA. They dragged their feet in their rebuild too. Now they’ve only been at it for 2-3 years now. They still have a few years left till their anything relevant again. So whether we like it or not. The Hawks best chances to rebuild is to trade away 19, 88, 2, and a few others to maximize the future assets to get the ball rolling. It’s probably better to get newer voices in the room anyways. I’m pretty sure the old guard rules the room and it may be easier for the new wave to come in with no pressure on them, just like the current old guard had. It’s just time to move forward. Stan Bowman isn’t the right guy for this reason. He’s in love with the core guys, and he can’t come to the realization that it’s over and he seriously believes that their just a few young kids away. Boston made some hard decisions this year. They let Krug walk and Chara. They have some good kids there that they have to get positions for and opportunity. And they’re doing it now. Hawks need a new set of eyes on this. Like Boston and LA have done!!! I think the 7-10 year timeline is a little pessimistic for my taste - you could be proven correct, but I'm hopeful it will be more in the 4-5 year range - albeit that requires a lot of things to go "our way". I'm also in disagreement that our prospect cupboard is bare, specifically with Dach and Boqvist already in the NHL and Mitchell slotted to there this season and Reichel in another year or two. Having said that - our prospect cupboard doth not overfloweth - that's for sure. Boston is an interesting case, especially when compared to L.A. and the Hawks. A major factor for Boston remaining competitive while the Hawks and Kings have not is the salary cap. L.A. and the Hawks both have two mega contracts and Boston does not. When Boston got lucky and Pastrnak fell to them in the draft they didn't need to trade him or other key pieces when his ELC expired because they had a better salary structure. Having their core players reasonably priced allowed them to keep/add supplemental players to keep them at a high level. The Hawks have been subtracting those types of core/supplemental players for years where even when they get lucky and find Panarin they couldn't keep him for salary cap reasons. Even the great Stan Bowman said “A full rebuild is a 7-10 year project”. It takes a while to get things right. Look at Vancouver. Colorado. It’s a massive undertaking, but the Hawks could be 2-3 years ahead of that 7-10 year timeline by utilizing the assets they have. When done properly, it could be 5-7 years before it bares any fruit. It needs to be done regardless of what anyone of us think or even Bowman!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 3, 2021 9:19:50 GMT -6
The truth of the matter is simply this. The Hawks are not set up for a rebuild or for a youth movement. This is not opinion, it’s absolute fact. The Hawks cupboards are bare. There is not much of value there. Even guys like Tim Soderlund and Sikura have fallen through the cracks and haven’t amounted to much and or are gone. The roster is filled with vets. That’s a fact. It’s really bad when a kid like Dach gets injured and the Hawks rebuild all of the sudden isn’t happening. This is a 7-10 year process regardless of what Stan says. So rebuilding takes about 2 years to rip it apart. Then about 4-5 of drafting and sucking. Look at LA. They dragged their feet in their rebuild too. Now they’ve only been at it for 2-3 years now. They still have a few years left till their anything relevant again. So whether we like it or not. The Hawks best chances to rebuild is to trade away 19, 88, 2, and a few others to maximize the future assets to get the ball rolling. It’s probably better to get newer voices in the room anyways. I’m pretty sure the old guard rules the room and it may be easier for the new wave to come in with no pressure on them, just like the current old guard had. It’s just time to move forward. Stan Bowman isn’t the right guy for this reason. He’s in love with the core guys, and he can’t come to the realization that it’s over and he seriously believes that their just a few young kids away. Boston made some hard decisions this year. They let Krug walk and Chara. They have some good kids there that they have to get positions for and opportunity. And they’re doing it now. Hawks need a new set of eyes on this. Like Boston and LA have done!!! I think the 7-10 year timeline is a little pessimistic for my taste - you could be proven correct, but I'm hopeful it will be more in the 4-5 year range - albeit that requires a lot of things to go "our way". I'm also in disagreement that our prospect cupboard is bare, specifically with Dach and Boqvist already in the NHL and Mitchell slotted to there this season and Reichel in another year or two. Having said that - our prospect cupboard doth not overfloweth - that's for sure. Boston is an interesting case, especially when compared to L.A. and the Hawks. A major factor for Boston remaining competitive while the Hawks and Kings have not is the salary cap. L.A. and the Hawks both have two mega contracts and Boston does not. When Boston got lucky and Pastrnak fell to them in the draft they didn't need to trade him or other key pieces when his ELC expired because they had a better salary structure. Having their core players reasonably priced allowed them to keep/add supplemental players to keep them at a high level. The Hawks have been subtracting those types of core/supplemental players for years where even when they get lucky and find Panarin they couldn't keep him for salary cap reasons. Point to the mega contracts as the major impediment if you want but is paying the team's best two players by far 21M more damaging than than paying the six veterans added two summers ago 21.7M? My point being,SB had over a 1/4 of the team's space to work with despite the mega contracts and failed miserably and he threw in some good picks and the team's best young D-man for good measure. Panarin had 2 left @6m when he was moved and he was moved for a lesser player making as much for a year longer. Maybe the Breadman re-signs for around 10M before he hits the FA market if he stayed,that's less than Saad and de Hann's money combined. There's no denying that K&T account for 25% of the team's cap but here's also no denying the remaining 75% has been largely mis-spent. IF Kane,Toews and Seabs were all paid 2M less,would that available 6M make much difference? That doesn't even cover Smith and de Haan. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Jan 3, 2021 10:08:20 GMT -6
Picture this: a scene from a movie of an old western ghost town, a single unpaved street, ramshackle store fronts with hitching posts out front, desolate with the only thing moving a mangy mutt ambling down the street and a tumbleweed blowing by. That what this site and other Hawks sites would look like if(when) Stan is relieved of his duties. Stan, or rather hatred of Stan - the lifeblood of Hawk blogs everywhere.
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Post by hsbob on Jan 3, 2021 10:50:45 GMT -6
A 'boom town' to a 'ghost town is a wondaful analogy. Assessing the performance of a team's FO is common place across all sports,especially a FO in such disarray,why should discussing SB's performance be out of bounds?
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Post by ebonyraptor on Jan 3, 2021 13:31:05 GMT -6
A 'boom town' to a 'ghost town is a wondaful analogy. Assessing the performance of a team's FO is common place across all sports,especially a FO in such disarray,why should discussing SB's performance be out of bounds? I don't think discussing SB's performance should be out of bounds and I don't recall ever suggesting it should be. My sarcasm was meant to imply the hatred of Stan has reached the point of being ridiculous. It permeates every topic. Open up any thread and you can't go more than a few posts without Stan being blamed or dissed for this, that and pretty much everything. It makes me almost wish for Stan to get fired just to experience the vacuum it would cause on Hawks blog sites - whatever would Hawks fans do without Stan to dump on? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 3, 2021 16:20:29 GMT -6
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 3, 2021 16:52:11 GMT -6
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 4, 2021 0:38:07 GMT -6
A 'boom town' to a 'ghost town is a wondaful analogy. Assessing the performance of a team's FO is common place across all sports,especially a FO in such disarray,why should discussing SB's performance be out of bounds? I don't think discussing SB's performance should be out of bounds and I don't recall ever suggesting it should be. My sarcasm was meant to imply the hatred of Stan has reached the point of being ridiculous. It permeates every topic. Open up any thread and you can't go more than a few posts without Stan being blamed or dissed for this, that and pretty much everything. It makes me almost wish for Stan to get fired just to experience the vacuum it would cause on Hawks blog sites - whatever would Hawks fans do without Stan to dump on? it's good you go against the grain here but stan deserves to get the gears for a lot of bad decisions made over his tenure. but i agree....it is a bit much sometimes and like you say it finds it's way into almost every thread somehow. that's just my opinion same as it is yours. but i reckon any chatter is better than no chatter. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2021 8:36:30 GMT -6
Wait.........we shouldn't mention the GM's performance in a thread about the team's roster? Who is solely responsible for that roster?
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Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2021 8:53:48 GMT -6
A 'boom town' to a 'ghost town is a wondaful analogy. Assessing the performance of a team's FO is common place across all sports,especially a FO in such disarray,why should discussing SB's performance be out of bounds? I don't think discussing SB's performance should be out of bounds and I don't recall ever suggesting it should be. My sarcasm was meant to imply the hatred of Stan has reached the point of being ridiculous. It permeates every topic. Open up any thread and you can't go more than a few posts without Stan being blamed or dissed for this, that and pretty much everything. It makes me almost wish for Stan to get fired just to experience the vacuum it would cause on Hawks blog sites - whatever would Hawks fans do without Stan to dump on? So you're saying it's okay to discuss but not criticize? I guess you see yourself as a Sir Galahad coming to the aid of the damsel in distress but in reality you may be Don Quijote tilting at windmills. This is a message board as you well know and it's topics are those of the Hawk's as you also know...............when any team's gone from the penthouse to the outhouse in a few short years,the GM will get the blame. If SB was shit canned as he shoulda been,I'd be even more involved with the team and the boards.......I'd post just as much or more. I'd go weeks on end just writhing posts congratulating ownership's decision alone. If it's painful for you to read my recounts of SB's squandering massive cap space,picks and good young players,then don't or counter with points to show my errors but you choose to chide any and all who criticize. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jan 4, 2021 8:56:06 GMT -6
A 'boom town' to a 'ghost town is a wondaful analogy. Assessing the performance of a team's FO is common place across all sports,especially a FO in such disarray,why should discussing SB's performance be out of bounds? I don't think discussing SB's performance should be out of bounds and I don't recall ever suggesting it should be. My sarcasm was meant to imply the hatred of Stan has reached the point of being ridiculous. It permeates every topic. Open up any thread and you can't go more than a few posts without Stan being blamed or dissed for this, that and pretty much everything. It makes me almost wish for Stan to get fired just to experience the vacuum it would cause on Hawks blog sites - whatever would Hawks fans do without Stan to dump on? Maybe start talking about the smart moves a real GM is doing. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2021 8:56:49 GMT -6
I liked the trade when it was made and complimented SB for making it,I'm also one of the few that still like the young player and I'm happy to have him in camp and find the deal fair. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jan 4, 2021 9:08:31 GMT -6
I liked the trade when it was made and complimented SB for making it,I'm also one of the few that still like the young player and I'm happy to have him in camp and find he deal fair. I also like the trade for Strome as it reunited D-cat back with his familiar center. And that helped bolster Strome's play as I thought the Yotes didn't know how to use him. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2021 9:39:41 GMT -6
I liked the trade when it was made and complimented SB for making it,I'm also one of the few that still like the young player and I'm happy to have him in camp and find he deal fair. I also like the trade for Strome as it reunited D-cat back with his familiar center. And that helped bolster Strome's play as I thought the Yotes didn't know how to use him. And now the staff needs to figure out if he's the player from two year ago or the player from last year. I still don't think the career years he and D-Cat had together were flukes and I'd like to see if they could recapture that. |
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