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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 17, 2020 7:42:45 GMT -6
I've watched a few prospect reviews by this guy and I don't agree with his assessment most of the time and the video shows that his skating isn't a big issue, he's much better than Chara at 19. Plus 10 goals by a huge stay at home dman is pretty good. Can you imagine in early training camp seeing Crevier paired with Zadorov, and behind them Basse in net.  And 6'6" Vlasic on another D pair 👍 |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 17, 2020 7:49:54 GMT -6
I read that Chicago tried to trade up 1 spot with Montreal to get the 19th pick and select the big dman Kaiden Guhle but Montreal said they're drafting a forward, smart move by Marc but very shady.
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Post by hsbob on Oct 17, 2020 9:41:47 GMT -6
I read that Chicago tried to trade up 1 spot with Montreal to get the 19th pick and select the big dman Kaiden Guhle but Montreal said they're drafting a forward, smart move by Marc but very shady. I woulda LOVED to sell Ol' Scambo a car before I retired!LOL! |
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Post by acesandeights on Oct 17, 2020 10:08:57 GMT -6
Is it known at all what players the Hawks had their sights on at 17? I'm referring to players they felt had a real good chance of still being around at 17 if moving up for higher rated players didn't work out. Reichel was obviously one target but surely they had a couple of others on their list.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 17, 2020 10:17:33 GMT -6
Is it known at all what players the Hawks had their sights on at 17? I'm referring to players they felt had a real good chance of still being around at 17 if moving up for higher rated players didn't work out. Reichel was obviously one target but surely they had a couple of others on their list. Kaiden Guhle was at the top of their list. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Oct 28, 2020 19:25:06 GMT -6
this was premiered just a few minutes ago. about 5 1/2 minutes in they start tossing names around about the #17 pick. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 29, 2020 6:11:53 GMT -6
Thanks for that GT. It really seems that Kelley is running the show there. Which is fine if it works. I like listening to him talk about a player. When Stan talks about a player, I think he’s talking about his shoe!!!
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Post by nighbor on Oct 29, 2020 16:35:08 GMT -6
Thanks for that GT. It really seems that Kelley is running the show there. Which is fine if it works. I like listening to him talk about a player. When Stan talks about a player, I think he’s talking about his shoe!!! Bowman and Kelly were working like a well oiled machine. It showed that Stan does not have to be the smartest man in the room. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 29, 2020 16:50:53 GMT -6
Is it known at all what players the Hawks had their sights on at 17? I'm referring to players they felt had a real good chance of still being around at 17 if moving up for higher rated players didn't work out. Reichel was obviously one target but surely they had a couple of others on their list. They were hoping Guhle or Reichel would be there. They liked both players but figured that Reichel who was playing against men at 17 years old had more upside. They tried to move up around Winnipeg but the price was too high. I guess they would have liked to get the top goalie. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 29, 2020 17:15:51 GMT -6
Thanks for that GT. It really seems that Kelley is running the show there. Which is fine if it works. I like listening to him talk about a player. When Stan talks about a player, I think he’s talking about his shoe!!! Bowman and Kelly were working like a well oiled machine. It showed that Stan does not have to be the smartest man in the room. Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2020 18:19:41 GMT -6
Bowman and Kelly were working like a well oiled machine. It showed that Stan does not have to be the smartest man in the room. Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! Is it the same well oiled machine that resulted in the best two forwards at Rockford last year being named Sikura? I hear about how the prospect pool has gotten bigger as far as size but there's still not a single forward prospect with a shot over 200lbs in that pool and the team resorted back to another small framed pick in the 1st round this year. The big Russian D-man should help size-wise and he'll have to because only JT and Smith are the only two forwards barely over 200lbs(the league average)and Smith is toast. I still struggle to see who other than that big Russian offers the least bit of push-back or helps the embarrassing lack of much needed pack mentality. Seabs and Murph offer size at D too but Seabs probably isn't in the lineup all the time and he hasn't been real physical since a few concussions and Murph's been neutered here. A healthy Shaw could help in this department but a healthy Shaw could be a pipe dream from here on out. When the smartest man in the room is a dim wit,the future is a crap shoot or just crap in this instance. If anyone doesn't think the Knights pushed the Hawks around as much as they outplayed em,they're fooling themselves. Wallmark was brought in @178lbs,Suter @176lbs,Chalupa @172lbs and Hallmark is a sub 200lb player also.......our #1 is a small framed kid too. Look for this team to continue to be pushed around and if I'm wrong, someone can feel free to point to the players that keep the team from being pushed around! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Oct 29, 2020 18:25:48 GMT -6
Bowman and Kelly were working like a well oiled machine. It showed that Stan does not have to be the smartest man in the room. Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! C'mon - picking mid 1st round is always a crap shoot. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you don't, and that goes for all GM's. If Reichel busts, the mob will pick up their pitchforks and torches and go after Stan/Kelly. On the flipside, if Reichel turns out to be a solid pick, the mob will just ignore it. Seems a little out of balance to me. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 29, 2020 18:30:53 GMT -6
Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! C'mon - picking mid 1st round is always a crap shoot. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you don't, and that goes for all GM's. If Reichel busts, the mob will pick up their pitchforks and torches and go after Stan/Kelly. On the flipside, if Reichel turns out to be a solid pick, the mob will just ignore it. Seems a little out of balance to me. Ummmmmmm. Ummmmmmmmmmm. Ummmmmmmmmm. Ahhhhhhhh. Errrrrrrrrr ummmmmmmm. Did you read Nighbor’s post? About Stan and Kelley being a well oiled machine? That’s all I was getting too. He was basically saying that they got the kid they want and they’ll make it work. It’s the same ole same ole. And remember, I didn’t quote him, he quoted me. So I responded in kind. Me and Nighbor have that type of relationship. It’s all good between us!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 29, 2020 18:35:21 GMT -6
Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! C'mon - picking mid 1st round is always a crap shoot. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you don't, and that goes for all GM's. If Reichel busts, the mob will pick up their pitchforks and torches and go after Stan/Kelly. On the flipside, if Reichel turns out to be a solid pick, the mob will just ignore it. Seems a little out of balance to me. C'mon buddy boy,are we a "mob" because we disagree with you or because we see precious few past picks and prospects help the team? There are more SB critics than supporters but last place will do that to a guy and I find your opposing viewpoint refreshing and my viewpoint doesn't result from a mob mentality as much as it does from the aforementioned last place finishes the last few years. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 29, 2020 21:39:56 GMT -6
Bowman and Kelly were working like a well oiled machine. It showed that Stan does not have to be the smartest man in the room. Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! Don't worry be happy. The draft is a crap shoot. Even Tallon was right on only two of his first four early first round draft picks 7,3,1,11. In 2019 everyone was expecting Bowen Byram and Stan picked possibly the best forward in the draft Kirby Dach. Not everything failed.
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Post by BigT on Oct 29, 2020 21:48:12 GMT -6
Let’s say the kid never makes it. Then what? Which way does your well oiled machine travel? Like all the other failed missions they’ve traveled 🧳 on!!! Don't worry be happy. The draft is a crap shoot. Even Tallon was right on only two of his first four early first round draft picks 7,3,1,11. In 2019 everyone was expecting Bowen Byram and Stan picked possibly the best forward in the draft Kirby Dach. Not everything failed.
Heyyyyy. I was literally the first one to give Stan and Kelley credit for picking Dach. MVR and myself had a long discussion how they needed size, especially up the middle. I thought like hell they were taking Turcotte. Which at 3, I felt was a direct path to the basement. I hope Turcotte becomes a decent player, but he seemed to struggle quite a bit in the NCAA this past year. So he’s still a ways away from the nhl. But MVR was saying how Dach would be the best pick at 1, 2 or even 3. And I believe he was right and is right. I’m not sold on Jack Hughes as of yet. Don’t know if I’ll ever be. Kakko seems to be legit, but he didn’t do too much, but that’s ok for now. Dach did pretty much exactly what the other 2 did, but at least he looked much better in the play in round. I like the Dach pick. I think he’s possibly the most valuable in that draft. And it’s lucky that the other 2 teams went with consensus picks, just like when Toews was drafted!!! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Oct 29, 2020 22:44:13 GMT -6
There has certainly been some draft misses in the first couple rounds, as there are with every GM, but also some hits, like Kevin Hayes (#24), Phillip Danault (#26), Brandon Saad (#43), Teuvo Terabvainen (#18), Nick Schmaltz (#20), Alex DeBrincat (#39), and Henri Jokiharju (#29). All of those players have been drafted mid 1st round or 2nd round and all are good to very good NHL players.
Just injecting some perspective.
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Post by mvr on Oct 30, 2020 6:16:35 GMT -6
We always must be weary of the internet draft boards lists heading into June.
Many of them are created by fans and journalists with no real experience in assessing talent.
Over the past decade, an obvious trend has emerged where USA born or developed talent has been promoted on many of these boards far beyond their projected value. We see guys like Turcotte shooting up draft boards and leapfrogging more obvious choices such as Kirby Dach or Dylan Cozens.
This is understandable. Fans want to cheer for home-grown talent. They do not see the European kids or the Western Canadians. Cozens grew up in the Yukon. There are not many fans creating draft boards from there.
Typically I believe the smart approach is to draft for positional need. Teams do not trade players for player much any longer unless as part of a cap dump.
For high first round picks, my choice is almost always the big power centre, scoring winger, or first pairing defenceman. If the player does not project to fill one of these spots, you look elsewhere.
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Post by hsbob on Oct 30, 2020 8:06:29 GMT -6
We always must be weary of the internet draft boards lists heading into June. Many of them are created by fans and journalists with no real experience in assessing talent. Over the past decade, an obvious trend has emerged where USA born or developed talent has been promoted on many of these boards far beyond their projected value. We see guys like Turcotte shooting up draft boards and leapfrogging more obvious choices such as Kirby Dach or Dylan Cozens. This is understandable. Fans want to cheer for home-grown talent. They do not see the European kids or the Western Canadians. Cozens grew up in the Yukon. There are not many fans creating draft boards from there. Typically I believe the smart approach is to draft for positional need. Teams do not trade players for player much any longer unless as part of a cap dump. For high first round picks, my choice is almost always the big power centre, scoring winger, or first pairing defenceman. If the player does not project to fill one of these spots, you look elsewhere. You want to cheer for YOUR home grown talent as much as anyone. I remember you saying something to the effect that Canadians should boycott the team if another US player was taken last summer and the drafting of a Canadian kid has singlehandedly turned you from a SB critic to a SB supporter. This is nativist behavior. I'm an American and (I) see kids from all over when I watch the U18's,U20's and the WC,I also catch the CHL tourneys.......I see much more of this than I do US development teams or the USHL. Condescend much? I like the drafting of Dach........I just wouldn't spike that football yet if I were you guys! I'm criticized for mentioning Dach's numbers and I see none of the articles on him mention his MONUMENTAL struggles at the dot. I'm sorry but I don't remember a center with who's 33% at any age and he couldn't win over half in JR's. Of course the talented,young player needs more than a year to acclimate but if he continues to struggle with FO's,he's a power winger and that'd be okay too. I've never advocated for the drafting of any American player. The Hawks went TWO years only with their drafting of US kids when they took Schmaltz,Hartman,Hino and Motte. I dunno if they all were the best choices but they all ARE playing in the league. The team's back to drafting pint size Euros which seems okay with you and your desire for size because they're not US kids. It's hard to see why someone with your attitude even follows a US based team! |
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Post by mvr on Oct 30, 2020 16:12:43 GMT -6
Never have I advocated drafting players based on their ethnicity or nationality. Not one time.
I have often suggested that this team should spend more picks on CHL players, especially from the Western Canadian League (which includes American born players and teams in Washington and Oregon). More players come from this league and the OHL than anywhere else.
I have no intention of defending a position I never put forward.
I do believe the Hawks have been deliberately spending the majority of their draft picks on US College kids (both Canadians and Americans) for most of the past decade.
For the most part, the strategy has been a failure. My position is that the problem is primarily socio-economic. College-bound hockey players tend to come from high income families. These players have largely not had to deal with much adversity in their lives. Instead, they spend their formative years with free scholarship rides and easy money while attending college.
I prefer my third and fourth liners and my bottom pairing defenceman to bring a "lunch pail" blue collar work ethic to the rink. Rich, spoiled kids don't have it.
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Post by mvr on Oct 30, 2020 16:25:28 GMT -6
Dustin Byfuglien is an American born player with a blue collar background and a WHL history. As you know, Bob, I have been among his biggest supporters on the boards here for more than a decade.
Byfuglien might have been this team's best draft pick in 20 years.
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Post by mvr on Oct 30, 2020 16:50:29 GMT -6
One other point.
Kirby Dach grew up in central Alberta. This is about a half continent away from where I live and grew up. I feel no stronger attachment to this player than I do to Patrick Kane, who grew up about 100 km from where I live and played Junior hockey in the OHL very near my hometown.
Nationality (and Jingoism) to me is a destructive dividing force. In many ways, I identify much more strongly to Americans from the Liberal states in the North-East than I do Albertans (whose politics are more similar to Red states).
I strongly suspect there will come a time when our children or grandchildren will scoff at displays of overt patriotism in the same way our generation thinks about racism, sexism and homophobia. To be truthful, I would prefer to see the end of displays of the flag and the national anthem at games. The sooner, the better.
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 30, 2020 16:50:29 GMT -6
Dustin Byfuglien is an American born player with a blue collar background and a WHL history. As you know, Bob, I have been among his biggest supporters on the boards here for more than a decade. Byfuglien might have been this team's best draft pick in 20 years. Have to thank Smith/Pulford for that pick, along with most of the core. |
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Post by mvr on Oct 30, 2020 16:54:22 GMT -6
When I was a young kid in the days before 9/11, there was no real border. We used to summer on the St. Lawrence River. My little brother and I would sail across the river to NY state in our Laser. There was a store on the American side that sold Baby Ruth chocolate bars and Tootsie Rolls which were not sold here. Hopefully some day the ridiculous border rules will be relaxed. We are the same people. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 30, 2020 17:01:15 GMT -6
this was premiered just a few minutes ago. about 5 1/2 minutes in they start tossing names around about the #17 pick. They said Guhle could be a pillar on D and Reichel could be a top 6 guy. Seeing Reichels vids on YouTube Lukas looks like a good pick, he's smart and works hard. Plus he's puts up very impressive numbers and it's high praise when his first year in DEL as a 17yr old the older players wanted to be on his line. When he was 16 he was 5'9" 143lbs, 17 he was 6' 173lbs and he said he put on 13lbs over the covid break. He's probably now 6'1" 183lbs and plays a skilled hard nosed 2way game, considering his brother is 6'3" 200+lbs that's promising. Lukas could be a great LWer for the Hawks one day. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 30, 2020 18:03:59 GMT -6
Never have I advocated drafting players based on their ethnicity or nationality. Not one time. I have often suggested that this team should spend more picks on CHL players, especially from the Western Canadian League (which includes American born players and teams in Washington and Oregon). More players come from this league and the OHL than anywhere else. I have no intention of defending a position I never put forward. I do believe the Hawks have been deliberately spending the majority of their draft picks on US College kids (both Canadians and Americans) for most of the past decade. For the most part, the strategy has been a failure. My position is that the problem is primarily socio-economic. College-bound hockey players tend to come from high income families. These players have largely not had to deal with much adversity in their lives. Instead, they spend their formative years with free scholarship rides and easy money while attending college. I prefer my third and fourth liners and my bottom pairing defenceman to bring a "lunch pail" blue collar work ethic to the rink. Rich, spoiled kids don't have it. MAN am I ready for this! Insinuating American NCAA players don't work as hard as you're mythical Canadian farm boys or whatever you imagine them to be is generalizing BULLSHIT and I take exception to it. You may not care what I take exception to so let's see what you take exception to. Do poor Canadian kids play hockey and if so,who pays the THOUSANDS of dollars it costs? How many Canadian Jr kids spent their formative years getting NO education.......just hazings,bullying and even molested.....it's a RICH tradition! How many CHL kids face any adversity at all in their sheltered,privileged lives and how many could make an Ivy league school's academic requirements and there in may lie the rub. Hockey's an elitist sport up there or down here. Lunch pails.......LOFL! WTF is wrong with you? Blowman drafted a few NCAA kids for a few years and I'm not sure any of em were ever good enough to score eight goals and win 33% of their draws as a rookie!LOFL! I wish we didn't have to have this worthless argument again but I'll have it. |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 30, 2020 18:05:16 GMT -6
Dustin Byfuglien is an American born player with a blue collar background and a WHL history. As you know, Bob, I have been among his biggest supporters on the boards here for more than a decade. Byfuglien might have been this team's best draft pick in 20 years. So it's not Americans in general you just have a hard on for college kids? |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 30, 2020 21:37:22 GMT -6
this was premiered just a few minutes ago. about 5 1/2 minutes in they start tossing names around about the #17 pick. They said Guhle could be a pillar on D and Reichel could be a top 6 guy. Seeing Reichels vids on YouTube Lukas looks like a good pick, he's smart and works hard. Plus he's puts up very impressive numbers and it's high praise when his first year in DEL as a 17yr old the older players wanted to be on his line. When he was 16 he was 5'9" 143lbs, 17 he was 6' 173lbs and he said he put on 13lbs over the covid break. He's probably now 6'1" 183lbs and plays a skilled hard nosed 2way game, considering his brother is 6'3" 200+lbs that's promising. Lukas could be a great LWer for the Hawks one day. I was hoping for Guhle, myself. I was kinda like wtf? on draft night, but since then I've liked what I've seen about Reichel. here's hoping he turns into at least a contributor down the road. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 30, 2020 22:39:04 GMT -6
Dustin Byfuglien is an American born player with a blue collar background and a WHL history. As you know, Bob, I have been among his biggest supporters on the boards here for more than a decade. Byfuglien might have been this team's best draft pick in 20 years. So it's not Americans in general you just have a hard on for college kids? I know I’m known for not liking the NCAA. But I will say this. If my kid was going to be a 3rd or 4th liner at best in the OHL, would it be worth it for my kid to do the same in the NCAA and get a free education? Of course it would. And a lot of people make those choices. I just don’t care for the development side in the NCAA. There’s only 34 games a year. And a handful of playoff type games. I feel the OHL is a better development league for the 68 game schedule plus an NHL style playoffs. I feel the crowds are bigger than what I’ve seen in the NCAA, though I’m sure some bigger schools get solid crowds. If a kid stays 4 years in the OHL, or CHL, they’ll 19 or 20 when they get out. In NCAA they’ll be 22 or 23. I feel that’s too old to be playing at that level and I’d rather a drafted kid go to the AHL at age 20. I’m not even saying I’m right. I’m just saying that’s what I’d prefer. I’m sure there’s guys who played 4 years in college and made the NHL. I believe Parise played 3. Same as Gomez I believe. And they’re both solid players. Some of the best. But in general, I’d prefer the CHL route if that’s an option!!! |
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Post by BigT on Oct 30, 2020 22:41:26 GMT -6
They said Guhle could be a pillar on D and Reichel could be a top 6 guy. Seeing Reichels vids on YouTube Lukas looks like a good pick, he's smart and works hard. Plus he's puts up very impressive numbers and it's high praise when his first year in DEL as a 17yr old the older players wanted to be on his line. When he was 16 he was 5'9" 143lbs, 17 he was 6' 173lbs and he said he put on 13lbs over the covid break. He's probably now 6'1" 183lbs and plays a skilled hard nosed 2way game, considering his brother is 6'3" 200+lbs that's promising. Lukas could be a great LWer for the Hawks one day. I was hoping for Guhle, myself. I was kinda like wtf? on draft night, but since then I've liked what I've seen about Reichel. here's hoping he turns into at least a contributor down the road. [br Even if he becomes a solid 2 way 3rd line player. That’s one less you have to look for. Ya it’d be nice to draft all high end talent, chances are at #17, I’m just hoping for an NHL player!!! |
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