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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 17, 2020 16:03:28 GMT -6
Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level. Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. Like I have said before, SB hired JC to be the fall guy when his "plan" falls apart. JC should have stayed as the Hogs coach for at least 3 more years. Work with and learn from Q what direction the club needs to take and that would be the parent club along with the AHL club. They need to be on the same page as an organization. When rookies come up here they look lost as to their roles. |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 17, 2020 16:48:49 GMT -6
man, I gotta say.... this gave me a good chuckle this afternoon. appreciate it.... fire Q a year removed from the Blackhawks second Cup win and after making the WCF again that season? come on, man...... fyi: they did fire the pp coach that summer..... they replaced Kompon with Dineen. Not as funny as firing the WCF GM for the team losing a winnable game. who said he should have been fired then either? |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 17, 2020 16:50:45 GMT -6
Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level. Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. what I've never understood is why they didn't just fire Q that off-season and hire Trotz...... especially seeing as JC supposedly wants to run a similar system as Trotz..... |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 17, 2020 17:33:16 GMT -6
Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. what I've never understood is why they didn't just fire Q that off-season and hire Trotz...... especially seeing as JC supposedly wants to run a similar system as Trotz..... Does JC have a system? I am not observant enough to know the answer to that question. I'll rely on you guys who know more about the game than I do. Is it that JC has no system; or that he has a lack of quality players to fulfill the objectives of his system? |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 17, 2020 18:14:02 GMT -6
I have to say seeing how well the team has done since it allowed a loser of a GM to dump a HoF coach totally proves your point......LOFL! Rocky fired Q. Rocky made it known after the 2016-2017 season he was unhappy with the team but was not ready to place blame. He was willing to wait until the next season but he was not going to wait too long. Should Q have won a cup with the three stooges in net? I wasn't in the organization meetings so I'm not sure but I would have to agree about Rocky's filthy rich fingers being involved in the misguided firing because even Rocky's smart enough to not leave a decision that important to an idiot like Blowman. How long does he wait in last place with Blowman? |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 17, 2020 18:19:50 GMT -6
Good posts fellas. Jack one thing to keep in mind, Bowman is the master of his own destiny. He wanted Toews and Kane to be the highest paid in the league. And to be honest, they weren’t the best players in the league. Kane is a phenomenal generational player with offensive skills never seen before. But he’s only won one scoring title. There’s better offensive players. Toews is a once in a lifetime triple threat in all three zones. But there was better. And they never broke the bank. Together they were amazing. But so was Hossa, Sharp, Hammer, Soupy, Saad, Shaw, Seabs, Keith etc etc. The team is why they won. Yes individuals rose to the occasion, all of them. Sometimes more than one a night. A handful a night. They were that good. So Scambo overpaid almost every player on the team. It was lunacy at the time of almost every signing. Tallon got a ton of flack for signing Hossa. That may have been the best contract of the bunch. When Toews and Kane questioned even at their own presser if this was too much, Scambo said. “Let me worry about that side of hockey, you guys just play”. He thought the cap would rise 5 million a year and he’d be safe forever. Well, that was a tragic mistake and I think he should a been let go after 2014 season. I know I know. I get it. But if that was done, we’d still be winning and probably have at least an extra Cup to our names. He was awful from there on out. 2015 the core group won that cup with minimal help. Possibly Keith and Crows best hockey of their lives!!! T, you put players/faces on my point. You don't have guys like Hossa and the rest that you named when the cap prevents one from both paying Toews/Kane and good support players. Paying Seabrook was a huge mistake. There was no way to afford Toews, Kane and Seabrook. Someone had to go and Toews and Kane were not going to on the list on those considered to be jettisoned. As you said, it was a team effort. But, regardless of Stan's mistakes and there were plenty of them, the cap makes it practically impossible to keep the excellence going and, no doubt, that is one of the goals of the cap. Destroy excellence and keep fans in the seats of all franchises by making them believe each team really does stand a chance of winning. I hope I am wrong, but I see absolutely no path of escape from the inevitable demise of this franchise. Although, having just written that, I cannot deny that for another year, or two, they might stand a chance of making the playoffs. But, they will not be serious contenders for the Cup for at least the rest of this decade, regardless of how Dach performs. You continue to say that paying Kane&Toews prevents the team from paying good support support players and you're just wrong. I pointed out the 20M+ Scambo threw away last summer along with his best D prospect and a 2nd&3rd.........how many GOOD SUPPORT players should a team add for 20M+ jack? |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 17, 2020 18:26:18 GMT -6
what I've never understood is why they didn't just fire Q that off-season and hire Trotz...... especially seeing as JC supposedly wants to run a similar system as Trotz..... Does JC have a system? I am not observant enough to know the answer to that question. I'll rely on you guys who know more about the game than I do. Is it that JC has no system; or that he has a lack of quality players to fulfill the objectives of his system? my understanding when he was first hired was that he wanted to run a similar system to Trotz. I could be wrong about that, though. I found this thsi evening. a few months old, but I would say it pretty well captures most of our feelings about JC..... www.google.com/amp/s/fansfronchroom.wordpress.com/2020/02/14/jeremy-colliton-a-coach-far-too-ahead-of-his-time/amp/ |
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Post by galaxytrash on Oct 17, 2020 18:44:04 GMT -6
^^ decent article imo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 20:42:27 GMT -6
I have to say seeing how well the team has done since it allowed a loser of a GM to dump a HoF coach totally proves your point......LOFL! Rocky fired Q. Rocky made it known after the 2016-2017 season he was unhappy with the team but was not ready to place blame. He was willing to wait until the next season but he was not going to wait too long. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 17, 2020 21:28:01 GMT -6
^^ Five years of decline and no real communication from the front office as to; A short term plan of how they are going to improve the team and get it going in the right direction. Or a longer term plan as to how they are going to make the team into a legitimate Cup contender. So far we've heard "going forward with youth"; is that the short and long term plan? Is cost cutting as talked about in the article GT posted a few days ago supposed to be the first step? After the "cost cutting" moves, there are now two fewer tradeable players to use for the long term plan, if there even is one. One of those two had a fairly high trade value, or so we thought, but he's now gone. Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level.
He was drafted #58 2nd round 2003 by the NYI. His career was cut short by back problems. He played in only 57 games. He had 3g and 3a. Not impressive but still at a high level. I believe that is 6 more combined points than everyone on this board.
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Post by nighbor on Oct 17, 2020 21:39:35 GMT -6
Rocky fired Q. Rocky made it known after the 2016-2017 season he was unhappy with the team but was not ready to place blame. He was willing to wait until the next season but he was not going to wait too long. Good one. I am neither. I am just a senior citizen who has not bought into the idea that Stan was hockey illiterate. The Detroit owner offered Stan a job but his old man wanted him to earn his own job. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Oct 17, 2020 22:08:53 GMT -6
Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level.
He was drafted #58 2nd round 2003 by the NYI. His career was cut short by back problems. He played in only 57 games. He had 3g and 3a. Not impressive but still at a high level. I believe that is 6 more combined points than everyone on this board.
plus, for 2 years in a row he was one of 25 or so kids who was picked to represent canada at the world juniors. i'm not going to hunt the numbers because i've done it before but i bet JC has more nhl games under his belt than about half of the other coaches. is JC an nhl coach? maybe not. but this idea that an nhl coach has to have been an experienced nhl player is just basically an old wive's tale. you take Q off the list of the top 4 coaches with the most regular season wins you have scotty bowman, hitchcock and trotz. that's 1,938 wins among the 3 with zero games played in the nhl. (or any pro league for that matter) |
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Post by Tater on Oct 17, 2020 22:11:11 GMT -6
Yes, really good article Vad. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 18, 2020 7:52:26 GMT -6
Does JC have a system? I am not observant enough to know the answer to that question. I'll rely on you guys who know more about the game than I do. Is it that JC has no system; or that he has a lack of quality players to fulfill the objectives of his system? my understanding when he was first hired was that he wanted to run a similar system to Trotz. I could be wrong about that, though. I found this thsi evening. a few months old, but I would say it pretty well captures most of our feelings about JC..... www.google.com/amp/s/fansfronchroom.wordpress.com/2020/02/14/jeremy-colliton-a-coach-far-too-ahead-of-his-time/amp/Pretty good article. But I doubt his style is the future. Not in a sport where physicality reigns supreme. Maybe 100 years from now, yes. But not anytime soon. When me and my buddies coached last year in Novice. 8/9 year olds. We literally had much more emotion than JC. My one buddy played literally 5 years in the OHL and didn’t scream or yell, but he showed emotion and the kids fed off of it. And he’s we had a few kids that lacked an identity and didn’t care for an type of discipline. Yet we still got them to buy in and win almost every game. Colliton with his emotionless emotions, to a hockey player looks like he doesn’t care. And it trickles down to the players. Imagine JC telling Toews or Keith or Seabs or Kane they have a curfew? Won’t fly. But if Q told them, they’d listen to the stash and respect it. We need a new direction with this hockey club. The farm is a wreck, again, JC only had success because stan threw a few NHLers at him for a while. I believe he got Franson, Wingells and Bouma that year. In the AHL, that helps immensely. If this doesn’t happen soon. You’ll see the Hawks turn into the graveyard they once were. No one will want to play here, and requests for trades will happen more and more frequently. There’s a reason why one of the oldest franchises in the league has only had 9 total GMs, and only 6 Cups to show for it. The ownership has been as bad as the product. The ownership group needs to learn to cut ties before it’s too late. Pulford anyone??? |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 18, 2020 9:01:01 GMT -6
Pretty good article. But I doubt his style is the future. Not in a sport where physicality reigns supreme. Maybe 100 years from now, yes. But not anytime soon. When me and my buddies coached last year in Novice. 8/9 year olds. We literally had much more emotion than JC. My one buddy played literally 5 years in the OHL and didn’t scream or yell, but he showed emotion and the kids fed off of it. And he’s we had a few kids that lacked an identity and didn’t care for an type of discipline. Yet we still got them to buy in and win almost every game. Colliton with his emotionless emotions, to a hockey player looks like he doesn’t care. And it trickles down to the players. Imagine JC telling Toews or Keith or Seabs or Kane they have a curfew? Won’t fly. But if Q told them, they’d listen to the stash and respect it. We need a new direction with this hockey club. The farm is a wreck, again, JC only had success because stan threw a few NHLers at him for a while. I believe he got Franson, Wingells and Bouma that year. In the AHL, that helps immensely. If this doesn’t happen soon. You’ll see the Hawks turn into the graveyard they once were. No one will want to play here, and requests for trades will happen more and more frequently. There’s a reason why one of the oldest franchises in the league has only had 9 total GMs, and only 6 Cups to show for it. The ownership has been as bad as the product. The ownership group needs to learn to cut ties before it’s too late. Pulford anyone??? Wingels stayed up after the January purge that year but Franson and Bouma were both reliable NHL starters for a decade before Scambo sent em both down along with Hayden who along with Bouma had been pretty engaged on the 4th line. Clendenning was another experienced D-man and they also had a decent forward with experience,the Hogs were pretty bad before these moves. That team also had Carl Dahlstrom and reports out of LV claim the Knights wanted him included in the Stastny trade and plan to give him a real shot. I dunno if the whole farm's s wreck(maybe) but the Sikura brothers led Rockford in scoring by a wide margin so there's that!LOL |
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Post by BigT on Oct 18, 2020 9:25:12 GMT -6
Pretty good article. But I doubt his style is the future. Not in a sport where physicality reigns supreme. Maybe 100 years from now, yes. But not anytime soon. When me and my buddies coached last year in Novice. 8/9 year olds. We literally had much more emotion than JC. My one buddy played literally 5 years in the OHL and didn’t scream or yell, but he showed emotion and the kids fed off of it. And he’s we had a few kids that lacked an identity and didn’t care for an type of discipline. Yet we still got them to buy in and win almost every game. Colliton with his emotionless emotions, to a hockey player looks like he doesn’t care. And it trickles down to the players. Imagine JC telling Toews or Keith or Seabs or Kane they have a curfew? Won’t fly. But if Q told them, they’d listen to the stash and respect it. We need a new direction with this hockey club. The farm is a wreck, again, JC only had success because stan threw a few NHLers at him for a while. I believe he got Franson, Wingells and Bouma that year. In the AHL, that helps immensely. If this doesn’t happen soon. You’ll see the Hawks turn into the graveyard they once were. No one will want to play here, and requests for trades will happen more and more frequently. There’s a reason why one of the oldest franchises in the league has only had 9 total GMs, and only 6 Cups to show for it. The ownership has been as bad as the product. The ownership group needs to learn to cut ties before it’s too late. Pulford anyone??? Wingels stayed up after the January purge that year but Franson and Bouma were both reliable NHL starters for a decade before Scambo sent em both down along with Hayden who along with Bouma had been pretty engaged on the 4th line. Clendenning was another experienced D-man and they also had a decent forward with experience,the Hogs were pretty bad before these moves. That team also had Carl Dahlstrom and reports out of LV claim the Knights wanted him included in the Stastny trade and plan to give him a real shot. I dunno if the whole farm's s wreck(maybe) but the Sikura brothers led Rockford in scoring by a wide margin so there's that!LOL I will take the Sikura bros any day. I still remember on the old boards arguing that he’s gonna be shit. Many said to give him a shot. A shot never hurts, but a gawdam 3/4 season with some of the leagues best all time players is no longer a shot. That’s a gawd dam gift. I’ve watched Mitchell since he was 15. He was in the Telus Cup ( a tourney for 15 year olds they have on TSN). I would love to see him make it and be successful. However, once again. I fear staying the extra year in college will hurt his chances. History proves that 2 years is the maximum a kid should stay in college. It’s not like the OHL. Kids don’t start in college till their 18. If they stay for a 3rd or 4th year. It becomes too easy and their development halts. I’d rather they go to the AHL and take the next step. History has proved way too many times that a 21 or 22 year old coming out of college usually don’t make it. And if they do, they’re don’t reach their ceiling. Look at Toews, Makar, Heatley, Kessler etc all turned pro at the right time and made the most of their opportunities. It’s just better to attend for a couple years then turn pro and develop from there. I’m a big fan of the OHL/CHL and the USTDP. But to develop further, I don’t like the NCAA. It’s ok for an 18/19 year old. After that it’s filled with lesser talent, much lesser talent than the AHL or even OHL. I love to see the US hockey take the next step and create a real league for Jr hockey. Scrap the USTDP and combine it with the NAHL and the USHL etc and let kids stay till their 20 years old. I think the if they did this, they’d be the top dogs in hockey for a long long time. America has the population, and the money to put massive amounts of kids in hockey. I’d love to see them do this. Make their own OHL, it’ll become bigger than most think!!! |
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Post by gigecj on Oct 18, 2020 10:26:57 GMT -6
Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level. Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. The Colliton hiring mystified me at the time for this very reason: The Chicago Blackhawks had a brand that was second to none even through their stumbling at the time. Stan, Rocky, McD, Whomever had the universe to choose from for a head coach, but it was just fine to hire this exceedingly young, exceedingly untested, not-all-that-respected (by the core), and without a bona fide plan that still seems without gauge to this very day. This team sucks because the powers that be, which definitely includes Stan, couldn't do what teams like the Pens and Bruins did. Naturally, they instead went the way of the LA Kings. Naturally... |
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Post by BigT on Oct 18, 2020 10:45:19 GMT -6
Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. The Colliton hiring mystified me at the time for this very reason: The Chicago Blackhawks had a brand that was second to none even through their stumbling at the time. Stan, Rocky, McD, Whomever had the universe to choose from for a head coach, but it was just fine to hire this exceedingly young, exceedingly untested, not-all-that-respected (by the core), and without a bona fide plan that still seems without gauge to this very day. This team sucks because the powers that be, which definitely includes Stan, couldn't do what teams like the Pens and Bruins did. Naturally, they instead went the way of the LA Kings. Naturally... I think you’re spot on except the “way of the Kings” part. The kings have hit rock bottom, but it was by design. They needed to get some top picks and they’ve been doing this. The Hawks got lucky with pick 3. But I fear the Hawks won’t have much more luck. The Kings seem to have an actual plan, whereas the Hawks are content being stuck in limbo. I think Stan is towing the company line and doing what the other yes men before him did. Just be good enough to make the playoffs and hope for the best. Make it a round or two to make a few bucks and call it a season. This is where I blame Rocky. Get a guy in here with a solid plan, and stick too it!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 18, 2020 10:49:19 GMT -6
Probably like everyone else, I never understood the reasoning behind hiring Colliton, and I still don't. I know I said this back around when he was hired but I couldn't understand how an NHL club would hire someone with zero NHL coaching experience as the HC. What was it about JC and his coaching background that appealed to Stan and made him think he was HC material, over other possible candidates with experience. The Colliton hiring mystified me at the time for this very reason: The Chicago Blackhawks had a brand that was second to none even through their stumbling at the time. Stan, Rocky, McD, Whomever had the universe to choose from for a head coach, but it was just fine to hire this exceedingly young, exceedingly untested, not-all-that-respected (by the core), and without a bona fide plan that still seems without gauge to this very day. This team sucks because the powers that be, which definitely includes Stan, couldn't do what teams like the Pens and Bruins did. Naturally, they instead went the way of the LA Kings. Naturally... IMO,not promoting a 1,000 NHL games played,hard nosed D-man with coaching experience who the team was already paying was another big mis-step,Ulf Samuelsson would DEMANDED respect from the kids and the core alike and JC coulda had another full AHL season to get his feet wet. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 18, 2020 10:53:25 GMT -6
Stan is like a guy who does not know how to swim who gets dumped overboard. Gran an oar, or a gunwale, or a lifejacket that floats by, or start doing the dog paddle or just start kicking, but no matter what he tries, he is going down. The hiring of Colliton proves that he is totally clueless. That team needed a veteran coach who knew the league inside and out----not some rookie who never even played the game at a top level.
He was drafted #58 2nd round 2003 by the NYI. His career was cut short by back problems. He played in only 57 games. He had 3g and 3a. Not impressive but still at a high level. I believe that is 6 more combined points than everyone on this board.
I hardly consider 3g and 3a in 57 games playing the game at the top level. Altho, I do understand how you could contradict what I said by pointing out that he did have NHL experience. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 18, 2020 10:57:08 GMT -6
The Colliton hiring mystified me at the time for this very reason: The Chicago Blackhawks had a brand that was second to none even through their stumbling at the time. Stan, Rocky, McD, Whomever had the universe to choose from for a head coach, but it was just fine to hire this exceedingly young, exceedingly untested, not-all-that-respected (by the core), and without a bona fide plan that still seems without gauge to this very day. This team sucks because the powers that be, which definitely includes Stan, couldn't do what teams like the Pens and Bruins did. Naturally, they instead went the way of the LA Kings. Naturally... I think you’re spot on except the “way of the Kings” part. The kings have hit rock bottom, but it was by design. They needed to get some top picks and they’ve been doing this. The Hawks got lucky with pick 3. But I fear the Hawks won’t have much more luck. The Kings seem to have an actual plan, whereas the Hawks are content being stuck in limbo. I think Stan is towing the company line and doing what the other yes men before him did. Just be good enough to make the playoffs and hope for the best. Make it a round or two to make a few bucks and call it a season. This is where I blame Rocky. Get a guy in here with a solid plan, and stick too it!!! As long the fans keep filling the seats, there is no reason to demand that there be a winning team. After all, this is a business. For years, Donald Sterling, the infamous owner of the Los Angeles Clippers in that other winter sport, refused to pay much money to keep his good players. The Clippers were mediocre, at best, but the fans kept coming and with TV money, Sterling made a living. I know it was not a money issue, but there was just no good hockey reason to hire Colliton. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 18, 2020 11:14:30 GMT -6
T, you put players/faces on my point. You don't have guys like Hossa and the rest that you named when the cap prevents one from both paying Toews/Kane and good support players. Paying Seabrook was a huge mistake. There was no way to afford Toews, Kane and Seabrook. Someone had to go and Toews and Kane were not going to on the list on those considered to be jettisoned. As you said, it was a team effort. But, regardless of Stan's mistakes and there were plenty of them, the cap makes it practically impossible to keep the excellence going and, no doubt, that is one of the goals of the cap. Destroy excellence and keep fans in the seats of all franchises by making them believe each team really does stand a chance of winning. I hope I am wrong, but I see absolutely no path of escape from the inevitable demise of this franchise. Although, having just written that, I cannot deny that for another year, or two, they might stand a chance of making the playoffs. But, they will not be serious contenders for the Cup for at least the rest of this decade, regardless of how Dach performs. You continue to say that paying Kane&Toews prevents the team from paying good support support players and you're just wrong. I pointed out the 20M+ Scambo threw away last summer along with his best D prospect and a 2nd&3rd.........how many GOOD SUPPORT players should a team add for 20M+ jack? I don't think I am wrong about the relationship between the Kane/Toews salaries and the inability to hire good support players. To me, it is very simple, the more one spends on A and B, the less there is to spend on C,D and E. But, what it also does is eliminate the margin of error. Every single move after paying A and B must be near perfect, in order to compensate for the lack of money. I don't disagree with your criticism of Bowman for how he spent that $20 million. However, I suspect that he was unable to pay top notch free agents. Besides, we don't know what was available to him as alternatives to the Lehner, DeHaan etc signings, altho you might. But, still, we will never know whether he could have actually signed those alternatives had he tried. But having sad that, I can say with dead certainty that his biggest mistake was paying Seabrook. As I have said before, not all the stars could be retained and Seabrook certainly was the one who had to go. Whether not resigning Seabrook would have saved the franchise is unknown to me, but it would have helped the effort. Also, losing Hossa did not help the cause. In the end, though, the 2010-15 years were once in a lifetime times. I would venture to guess that they will never be repeated in our lifetimes. I will further guess that the Hawks will not be winning any Cups this decade, nor even really be in the conversation as potential winners. Bowman is trying to salvage a respectable team in the last years of the Toews/Kane performances; and whether it is the money, or his own inabilities, he simply can't do it. Jeremy Colliton is not going to save him from his mistakes either. Though, I hope you get the chance to rub this in my face when just the opposite of my predictions happens. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 18, 2020 12:43:50 GMT -6
Pretty good article. But I doubt his style is the future. Not in a sport where physicality reigns supreme. Maybe 100 years from now, yes. But not anytime soon. When me and my buddies coached last year in Novice. 8/9 year olds. We literally had much more emotion than JC. My one buddy played literally 5 years in the OHL and didn’t scream or yell, but he showed emotion and the kids fed off of it. And he’s we had a few kids that lacked an identity and didn’t care for an type of discipline. Yet we still got them to buy in and win almost every game. Colliton with his emotionless emotions, to a hockey player looks like he doesn’t care. And it trickles down to the players. Imagine JC telling Toews or Keith or Seabs or Kane they have a curfew? Won’t fly. But if Q told them, they’d listen to the stash and respect it. We need a new direction with this hockey club. The farm is a wreck, again, JC only had success because stan threw a few NHLers at him for a while. I believe he got Franson, Wingells and Bouma that year. In the AHL, that helps immensely. If this doesn’t happen soon. You’ll see the Hawks turn into the graveyard they once were. No one will want to play here, and requests for trades will happen more and more frequently. There’s a reason why one of the oldest franchises in the league has only had 9 total GMs, and only 6 Cups to show for it. The ownership has been as bad as the product. The ownership group needs to learn to cut ties before it’s too late. Pulford anyone??? How many of those 8 & 9 year olds were the children of you and your buddies. I was always excited watching my sons play. Young children need hockey to be exciting and that starts with the coaches who have to offset the pushy stressing parents. NHLers who are more structured and in times of stress need to know that their coach believes in them. If the coach is freaking out so will they. With the exception of a few crotch grabs Q was known more for standing on the bench calmly reaching into his inside pocket to extract his trusty notebook.
We are going in a new direction, we are going bigger. Wingels was traded to Boston. There was no reason to keep them with the big club when the big club was playing a small mans game.
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Post by Tater on Oct 18, 2020 13:20:22 GMT -6
We are going in a new direction, we are going bigger. Wingels was traded to Boston. There was no reason to keep them with the big club when the big club was playing a small mans game.
Bigger in size, sure, but will they be coached to play small like the last few years? |
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Post by BigT on Oct 18, 2020 14:38:23 GMT -6
Pretty good article. But I doubt his style is the future. Not in a sport where physicality reigns supreme. Maybe 100 years from now, yes. But not anytime soon. When me and my buddies coached last year in Novice. 8/9 year olds. We literally had much more emotion than JC. My one buddy played literally 5 years in the OHL and didn’t scream or yell, but he showed emotion and the kids fed off of it. And he’s we had a few kids that lacked an identity and didn’t care for an type of discipline. Yet we still got them to buy in and win almost every game. Colliton with his emotionless emotions, to a hockey player looks like he doesn’t care. And it trickles down to the players. Imagine JC telling Toews or Keith or Seabs or Kane they have a curfew? Won’t fly. But if Q told them, they’d listen to the stash and respect it. We need a new direction with this hockey club. The farm is a wreck, again, JC only had success because stan threw a few NHLers at him for a while. I believe he got Franson, Wingells and Bouma that year. In the AHL, that helps immensely. If this doesn’t happen soon. You’ll see the Hawks turn into the graveyard they once were. No one will want to play here, and requests for trades will happen more and more frequently. There’s a reason why one of the oldest franchises in the league has only had 9 total GMs, and only 6 Cups to show for it. The ownership has been as bad as the product. The ownership group needs to learn to cut ties before it’s too late. Pulford anyone??? How many of those 8 & 9 year olds were the children of you and your buddies. I was always excited watching my sons play. Young children need hockey to be exciting and that starts with the coaches who have to offset the pushy stressing parents. NHLers who are more structured and in times of stress need to know that their coach believes in them. If the coach is freaking out so will they. With the exception of a few crotch grabs Q was known more for standing on the bench calmly reaching into his inside pocket to extract his trusty notebook.
We are going in a new direction, we are going bigger. Wingels was traded to Boston. There was no reason to keep them with the big club when the big club was playing a small mans game.
We only had 3 of us with kids on the team. But obviously we had other parents step in as Manager (financials), trainer, room attendants etc. It literally takes a village. It was an awesome experience, literally invaluable. Couldn’t put a price on it. We have probably 2-3 of the top kids in Ontario min this area from our team. Now, whether that lasts till their teens is another story. I thought Q was quite a firey guy. He literally would snap once or twice a game, and his speeches in the room were epic. He’s a great raw raw guy to have. Even if the team is going in a different direction, I’m not sure it’s gonna work. Stan Bowman always seems to do things against the grain, and always tries to be the smartest guy in the room. Whether we like it or not, hockey is an old boys club. If you don’t fall in line, you fall out. I doubt Stan lasts very long in any other org. The way he does things does not work and he’s still trying to fit round peg in square hole, and is determined to uproot all logic to try this. He’s in over his head. He’s basically a fan that holds the reigns. The only reason this team has any shred of dignity is probably from Mark Kelley. But even his ideas at the draft have failed miserably. I think Kelley could be an asset if he fell in line, but with Stan as his boss allowing him free reign, there’s too many people trying to run this thing and absolutely no real leadership. This way will not work and is not working. I have a friend that plays in the NHL right now. If you could hear his stories of guys that are ridiculously talented, but don’t make it because they don’t fall in line, or party too hard. It happens. The stories are epic, but there’s a lot to take away from it. And everything I hear, Stan does the opposite. I also have a buddy that is a coach in the NHL, now, he doesn’t tip his hand at much and rightfully so. But just the way he conducts his business is just different than Stan. Not saying everyone else is right all the time, but I’m seeing a pattern and Stan is just not doing it right!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Oct 18, 2020 17:51:51 GMT -6
You continue to say that paying Kane&Toews prevents the team from paying good support support players and you're just wrong. I pointed out the 20M+ Scambo threw away last summer along with his best D prospect and a 2nd&3rd.........how many GOOD SUPPORT players should a team add for 20M+ jack? I don't think I am wrong about the relationship between the Kane/Toews salaries and the inability to hire good support players. To me, it is very simple, the more one spends on A and B, the less there is to spend on C,D and E. But, what it also does is eliminate the margin of error. Every single move after paying A and B must be near perfect, in order to compensate for the lack of money. I don't disagree with your criticism of Bowman for how he spent that $20 million. However, I suspect that he was unable to pay top notch free agents. Besides, we don't know what was available to him as alternatives to the Lehner, DeHaan etc signings, altho you might. But, still, we will never know whether he could have actually signed those alternatives had he tried. But having sad that, I can say with dead certainty that his biggest mistake was paying Seabrook. As I have said before, not all the stars could be retained and Seabrook certainly was the one who had to go. Whether not resigning Seabrook would have saved the franchise is unknown to me, but it would have helped the effort. Also, losing Hossa did not help the cause. In the end, though, the 2010-15 years were once in a lifetime times. I would venture to guess that they will never be repeated in our lifetimes. I will further guess that the Hawks will not be winning any Cups this decade, nor even really be in the conversation as potential winners. Bowman is trying to salvage a respectable team in the last years of the Toews/Kane performances; and whether it is the money, or his own inabilities, he simply can't do it. Jeremy Colliton is not going to save him from his mistakes either. Though, I hope you get the chance to rub this in my face when just the opposite of my predictions happens. I'm not looking to rub anything in your face jack,I agree about not winning cups this decade......hell,it could be another 49 years with what the Hawks have in young players,management and coaching. If K&T's deals were gone,wouldn't the team have to spend somewhere close to replace a 1LC and a 1LW with the talents of those two? The GM squanders an equal amount of space that his best two players are paid on injured nonsense and you find a way to give him a pass? I keep hearing how good players won't sign here so SB has to settle for leftovers,if that's the case....then we need a new GM worse than ever. Scambo gets leftovers because he's playin' GM in a world with real GM's and we'll see how things work out after Kane,Toews and Keith's money is gone but you'll still have to replace your best two forwards and your best D-man and that cost a lot of money any way you slice it. Every move after paying A&B has to be near perfect? There's 60M+ after paying A&B to spend on 20 players and it's far from perfectly spent. If Kane and Toews both took 2m less,do really think that 4M would have a big impact on the team's success after blowing 5 times that amount last summer? |
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Post by jacksalmon on Oct 18, 2020 19:06:10 GMT -6
I don't think I am wrong about the relationship between the Kane/Toews salaries and the inability to hire good support players. To me, it is very simple, the more one spends on A and B, the less there is to spend on C,D and E. But, what it also does is eliminate the margin of error. Every single move after paying A and B must be near perfect, in order to compensate for the lack of money. I don't disagree with your criticism of Bowman for how he spent that $20 million. However, I suspect that he was unable to pay top notch free agents. Besides, we don't know what was available to him as alternatives to the Lehner, DeHaan etc signings, altho you might. But, still, we will never know whether he could have actually signed those alternatives had he tried. But having sad that, I can say with dead certainty that his biggest mistake was paying Seabrook. As I have said before, not all the stars could be retained and Seabrook certainly was the one who had to go. Whether not resigning Seabrook would have saved the franchise is unknown to me, but it would have helped the effort. Also, losing Hossa did not help the cause. In the end, though, the 2010-15 years were once in a lifetime times. I would venture to guess that they will never be repeated in our lifetimes. I will further guess that the Hawks will not be winning any Cups this decade, nor even really be in the conversation as potential winners. Bowman is trying to salvage a respectable team in the last years of the Toews/Kane performances; and whether it is the money, or his own inabilities, he simply can't do it. Jeremy Colliton is not going to save him from his mistakes either. Though, I hope you get the chance to rub this in my face when just the opposite of my predictions happens. I'm not looking to rub anything in your face jack,I agree about not winning cups this decade......hell,it could be another 49 years with what the Hawks have in young players,management and coaching. If K&T's deals were gone,wouldn't the team have to spend somewhere close to replace a 1LC and a 1LW with the talents of those two? The GM squanders an equal amount of space that his best two players are paid on injured nonsense and you find a way to give him a pass? I keep hearing how good players won't sign here so SB has to settle for leftovers,if that's the case....then we need a new GM worse than ever. Scambo gets leftovers because he's playin' GM in a world with real GM's and we'll see how things work out after Kane,Toews and Keith's money is gone but you'll still have to replace your best two forwards and your best D-man and that cost a lot of money any way you slice it. Every move after paying A&B has to be near perfect? There's 60M+ after paying A&B to spend on 20 players and it's far from perfectly spent. If Kane and Toews both took 2m less,do really think that 4M would have a big impact on the team's success after blowing 5 times that amount last summer? I don't think you are looking to rub anything in my face. I only meant that you could rub my face in my negativity about the team's chances this decade, if they do better than I predict. Once K&T are gone and their money is available, if Stan is still around, this team will only be worse because I don't think he knows what he is doing. I am not begrudging K&T their money. They deserve it. I just think that it is hard in a capped league to pay guys like they are being paid and still have enough to pay the needed support. But, I have said that and you have made it clear that you disagree, which is fine. Perhaps, a different GM could have gotten K&T what they needed even with the monetary limitations and I guess that is your point. We'll never know for sure. I sure can't say that it is not possible. I just think it is difficult no matter who is running the show. In addition, I don't think the extra 4 million would have made a big difference, but it would have helped even with Bowman around. However,t that 4 million plus Seabrook's 5.5 mill would have made a big difference. To me, the difference between what we have experienced and a Cup contender. Finally, I think that a better GM could have put a better team on the ice, money problems, or not, as you pointed out with your 20 million argument, which I think has merit. So, there you are, an extra 4 mill from T&K, 5.5 mill from Seabrook and 20 mill better spent-----that spells a serious Cup contender. |
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Post by nighbor on Oct 18, 2020 19:15:28 GMT -6
We are going in a new direction, we are going bigger. Wingels was traded to Boston. There was no reason to keep them with the big club when the big club was playing a small mans game.
Bigger in size, sure, but will they be coached to play small like the last few years? We were playing small years before JC was hired. If JC does not have the team playing a more physical game I will be very disappointed and he should be put on notice. |
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Post by vadarx on Oct 18, 2020 21:32:05 GMT -6
Bigger in size, sure, but will they be coached to play small like the last few years? We were playing small years before JC was hired. If JC does not have the team playing a more physical game I will be very disappointed and he should be put on notice. he should already be on notice. he didn't need different players to make the ones he had play the system he wants to play. |
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Post by BigT on Oct 19, 2020 6:11:11 GMT -6
We were playing small years before JC was hired. If JC does not have the team playing a more physical game I will be very disappointed and he should be put on notice. he should already be on notice. he didn't need different players to make the ones he had play the system he wants to play. Yes yes and a lot more YES! Look at Trotz. The problem is the players won’t buy into mellow mans style!!! |
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