What are we next year?

[hsbob]

Nov 29, 2020 10:06:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 29, 2020 8:53:58 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Even though I realize and have advocated for moving Kane and Toews myself,it still puts the Hawks in a new category all together and brings back some dark memories of purges past. The team without K&T is immediately the Sens or the Ducks star power-wise,no road draw if K&T ain't comin' to town AND a dramatic drop off in home attendance once the fans come back.......or do they? It'd be a shock to my system too but Center Ice would allow me to watch the two greats as it does all my favorite ex-Hawks,the two would have a better shot at another cup and my hockey interests would become less Hawks-centered and I wouldn't be alone because empty barns have followed those purges of the past........who'll buy our beer then?
Ownership is also acutely aware of this because they're the unproud owners of a 49 year drought.
I know what needs to happen for a true rebuild just like everyone else does,one of the core forwards(maybe both) and one of the core D-men would have to go but will the Liquor salesmen play with fire to that extent?

To answer the last question there. An old buddy of mine who is indigenous, he always told me this saying..... “Life is like the flame, without change, you can’t remain”. So like a fire, if you let it die out, it’ll die out long before it’s time. If you rearrange the sticks and the wood in the fire, you’ll get not just a longer life, but a brighter life outta it.

I think the Hawks were a solid fire burning and not much was done to rearrange the burning logs and nothing new was brought in to sustain it longer.
If we’re afraid of change, including ownership, there will be another 40+ year drought guaranteed. Cant be afraid to lose, always gotta go for the win.

Can the Hawks be built back up in a few years time. Absolutely not. It’s impossible. The amount of players you need is tough to get them all in a 3 year span. It’s probably a 5-8 year plan if done correctly. Look at the Avs for example. They’ve been truly building this thing for the last 7-9 years and are finally starting to emerge as a contender. But........ they’re set for a decade now. They have assets to deal to make their team stronger, also are loaded on the roster. They have cap space and are doing things the right way. They’re trading guys like Zadorov who will want 5 million. They got a rental in Saad, and will let him walk cuz they got Newhook and Kaut coming. They also have Byram coming on D so why pay Zadorov 5 million when they have his replacement in tow? They’re doing it right over there and will last a lot longer than the other teams. They don’t trade many of any 1st rounders. They’ll have the options to trade away guys to save money cuz they have replacements in tow. They’ll have money and assets that o go for it for some time. Plus they’ve got an absolute beauty in Mackinnon who has made it clear he wants to win and will take less to achieve that goal. He’s saving them probably 3-4 million a year now.

Anyways. If the Hawks are only concerned about the bottom line. Fair enough. But after 3-4 years straight of no playoffs and fading stars. No one will want to see them anymore, and the bottom line will be affected. Horribly. In Canada, we have an old saying. Every time you bend down to pick up a dime, a loonie will fall out of your pocket. The point? Don’t be cheap and stupid!!!

We could use a few more logs on the fire without a doubt and Wirtz wouldn't be able to sleep at night if he lost a 'Loonie'!LOL!

Bringing in two,expensive vet D-men last year made as much sense as bringing in two more veteran forwards this year since we still have Smith,Shaw and Carpenter........this team HAS TO see what they have in their kids but how do they do that with this roster?

[ebonyraptor]

Nov 29, 2020 10:06:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 29, 2020 8:53:58 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Even though I realize and have advocated for moving Kane and Toews myself,it still puts the Hawks in a new category all together and brings back some dark memories of purges past. The team without K&T is immediately the Sens or the Ducks star power-wise,no road draw if K&T ain't comin' to town AND a dramatic drop off in home attendance once the fans come back.......or do they? It'd be a shock to my system too but Center Ice would allow me to watch the two greats as it does all my favorite ex-Hawks,the two would have a better shot at another cup and my hockey interests would become less Hawks-centered and I wouldn't be alone because empty barns have followed those purges of the past........who'll buy our beer then?
Ownership is also acutely aware of this because they're the unproud owners of a 49 year drought.
I know what needs to happen for a true rebuild just like everyone else does,one of the core forwards(maybe both) and one of the core D-men would have to go but will the Liquor salesmen play with fire to that extent?

To answer the last question there. An old buddy of mine who is indigenous, he always told me this saying..... “Life is like the flame, without change, you can’t remain”. So like a fire, if you let it die out, it’ll die out long before it’s time. If you rearrange the sticks and the wood in the fire, you’ll get not just a longer life, but a brighter life outta it.

I think the Hawks were a solid fire burning and not much was done to rearrange the burning logs and nothing new was brought in to sustain it longer.
If we’re afraid of change, including ownership, there will be another 40+ year drought guaranteed. Cant be afraid to lose, always gotta go for the win.

Can the Hawks be built back up in a few years time. Absolutely not. It’s impossible. The amount of players you need is tough to get them all in a 3 year span. It’s probably a 5-8 year plan if done correctly. Look at the Avs for example. They’ve been truly building this thing for the last 7-9 years and are finally starting to emerge as a contender. But........ they’re set for a decade now. They have assets to deal to make their team stronger, also are loaded on the roster. They have cap space and are doing things the right way. They’re trading guys like Zadorov who will want 5 million. They got a rental in Saad, and will let him walk cuz they got Newhook and Kaut coming. They also have Byram coming on D so why pay Zadorov 5 million when they have his replacement in tow? They’re doing it right over there and will last a lot longer than the other teams. They don’t trade many of any 1st rounders. They’ll have the options to trade away guys to save money cuz they have replacements in tow. They’ll have money and assets that o go for it for some time. Plus they’ve got an absolute beauty in Mackinnon who has made it clear he wants to win and will take less to achieve that goal. He’s saving them probably 3-4 million a year now.

Anyways. If the Hawks are only concerned about the bottom line. Fair enough. But after 3-4 years straight of no playoffs and fading stars. No one will want to see them anymore, and the bottom line will be affected. Horribly. In Canada, we have an old saying. Every time you bend down to pick up a dime, a loonie will fall out of your pocket. The point? Don’t be cheap and stupid!!!

That may be true but we're not starting from scratch - we're already at least a couple years into the 5-8 year process. Granted we're farther along in the process with the forwards than the d-men but even with the d-men we're not starting at zero.

[BigT]

Nov 29, 2020 11:53:23 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Nov 29, 2020 10:06:18 GMT -6 BigT said:

To answer the last question there. An old buddy of mine who is indigenous, he always told me this saying..... “Life is like the flame, without change, you can’t remain”. So like a fire, if you let it die out, it’ll die out long before it’s time. If you rearrange the sticks and the wood in the fire, you’ll get not just a longer life, but a brighter life outta it.

I think the Hawks were a solid fire burning and not much was done to rearrange the burning logs and nothing new was brought in to sustain it longer.
If we’re afraid of change, including ownership, there will be another 40+ year drought guaranteed. Cant be afraid to lose, always gotta go for the win.

Can the Hawks be built back up in a few years time. Absolutely not. It’s impossible. The amount of players you need is tough to get them all in a 3 year span. It’s probably a 5-8 year plan if done correctly. Look at the Avs for example. They’ve been truly building this thing for the last 7-9 years and are finally starting to emerge as a contender. But........ they’re set for a decade now. They have assets to deal to make their team stronger, also are loaded on the roster. They have cap space and are doing things the right way. They’re trading guys like Zadorov who will want 5 million. They got a rental in Saad, and will let him walk cuz they got Newhook and Kaut coming. They also have Byram coming on D so why pay Zadorov 5 million when they have his replacement in tow? They’re doing it right over there and will last a lot longer than the other teams. They don’t trade many of any 1st rounders. They’ll have the options to trade away guys to save money cuz they have replacements in tow. They’ll have money and assets that o go for it for some time. Plus they’ve got an absolute beauty in Mackinnon who has made it clear he wants to win and will take less to achieve that goal. He’s saving them probably 3-4 million a year now.

Anyways. If the Hawks are only concerned about the bottom line. Fair enough. But after 3-4 years straight of no playoffs and fading stars. No one will want to see them anymore, and the bottom line will be affected. Horribly. In Canada, we have an old saying. Every time you bend down to pick up a dime, a loonie will fall out of your pocket. The point? Don’t be cheap and stupid!!!

That may be true but we're not starting from scratch - we're already at least a couple years into the 5-8 year process. Granted we're farther along in the process with the forwards than the d-men but even with the d-men we're not starting at zero.

I’m gonna say we’re 1 year in to a rebuild. I’d say getting Dach was the start. Right now none of the other kids drafted in the past 2-3 years besides Dach have actually made the NHL. We’re no further along than year one of a rebuild. Stan’s way, if it does work out, will take 5 years to come to fruition. Once Dach is 24, he’ll be on top of his game. Also they’ll need Boqvist to become a true #1. Reichel to be at a minimum like Sharp, Carlsson to be like Hammer or something similar. Mitchell to be like Leddy. We also need a Bickell type, a Hossa type, plus not to mention we need a young Toews and or Kane type players to get this thing back to where it was. We are also missing a top notch goalie. So you can easily see that we are a bunch of players away from contending again. Probably 9-10 players away.

The problem with the Hawks is this, they will not have cap space for another 3-4 years. So they still won’t be able to “go for it” for some time. So I don’t see anything but a full rebuild to do this properly. Doing it Stan’s way is just prolonging the inevitable. There’s just no way to get back to the top of the heap with our cap situation and our drafting position.

I know many want to buy what the org is selling. But please think about it realistically. There is no 2 year plan. The only way that happens is if the Hawks get lucky and get back to back 1st overalls. That would help immensely. But the realistic approach the org s taking is finishing 2-3 spots out of the playoffs and drafting anywhere from 10–15. So the plan is not going to work. Unless Stan and the org have something else up their sleeves that hasn’t shown itself yet. But I doubt they do.

My best guess is the dynamic duo finish their deals and see only a few pieces to work with. They leave UFA and the team is thrust right into the throes of a full rebuild. Then we will finally see the 1st overalls and top 3 picks for a few years. Which will take Dach to his UFA status himself, and he probably leaves UFA if the team is still in the gutter!!!

[ebonyraptor]

Nov 29, 2020 13:01:03 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 29, 2020 11:53:23 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

That may be true but we're not starting from scratch - we're already at least a couple years into the 5-8 year process. Granted we're farther along in the process with the forwards than the d-men but even with the d-men we're not starting at zero.

I’m gonna say we’re 1 year in to a rebuild. I’d say getting Dach was the start. Right now none of the other kids drafted in the past 2-3 years besides Dach have actually made the NHL. We’re no further along than year one of a rebuild. Stan’s way, if it does work out, will take 5 years to come to fruition. Once Dach is 24, he’ll be on top of his game. Also they’ll need Boqvist to become a true #1. Reichel to be at a minimum like Sharp, Carlsson to be like Hammer or something similar. Mitchell to be like Leddy. We also need a Bickell type, a Hossa type, plus not to mention we need a young Toews and or Kane type players to get this thing back to where it was. We are also missing a top notch goalie. So you can easily see that we are a bunch of players away from contending again. Probably 9-10 players away.

The problem with the Hawks is this, they will not have cap space for another 3-4 years. So they still won’t be able to “go for it” for some time. So I don’t see anything but a full rebuild to do this properly. Doing it Stan’s way is just prolonging the inevitable. There’s just no way to get back to the top of the heap with our cap situation and our drafting position.

I know many want to buy what the org is selling. But please think about it realistically. There is no 2 year plan. The only way that happens is if the Hawks get lucky and get back to back 1st overalls. That would help immensely. But the realistic approach the org s taking is finishing 2-3 spots out of the playoffs and drafting anywhere from 10–15. So the plan is not going to work. Unless Stan and the org have something else up their sleeves that hasn’t shown itself yet. But I doubt they do.

My best guess is the dynamic duo finish their deals and see only a few pieces to work with. They leave UFA and the team is thrust right into the throes of a full rebuild. Then we will finally see the 1st overalls and top 3 picks for a few years. Which will take Dach to his UFA status himself, and he probably leaves UFA if the team is still in the gutter!!!

I would argue DCat and Kubalik, at minimum, are part of the rebuild and will be key pieces of the rebuilt core.

[BigT]

Nov 29, 2020 14:03:02 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Nov 29, 2020 13:01:03 GMT -6 BigT said:

I’m gonna say we’re 1 year in to a rebuild. I’d say getting Dach was the start. Right now none of the other kids drafted in the past 2-3 years besides Dach have actually made the NHL. We’re no further along than year one of a rebuild. Stan’s way, if it does work out, will take 5 years to come to fruition. Once Dach is 24, he’ll be on top of his game. Also they’ll need Boqvist to become a true #1. Reichel to be at a minimum like Sharp, Carlsson to be like Hammer or something similar. Mitchell to be like Leddy. We also need a Bickell type, a Hossa type, plus not to mention we need a young Toews and or Kane type players to get this thing back to where it was. We are also missing a top notch goalie. So you can easily see that we are a bunch of players away from contending again. Probably 9-10 players away.

The problem with the Hawks is this, they will not have cap space for another 3-4 years. So they still won’t be able to “go for it” for some time. So I don’t see anything but a full rebuild to do this properly. Doing it Stan’s way is just prolonging the inevitable. There’s just no way to get back to the top of the heap with our cap situation and our drafting position.

I know many want to buy what the org is selling. But please think about it realistically. There is no 2 year plan. The only way that happens is if the Hawks get lucky and get back to back 1st overalls. That would help immensely. But the realistic approach the org s taking is finishing 2-3 spots out of the playoffs and drafting anywhere from 10–15. So the plan is not going to work. Unless Stan and the org have something else up their sleeves that hasn’t shown itself yet. But I doubt they do.

My best guess is the dynamic duo finish their deals and see only a few pieces to work with. They leave UFA and the team is thrust right into the throes of a full rebuild. Then we will finally see the 1st overalls and top 3 picks for a few years. Which will take Dach to his UFA status himself, and he probably leaves UFA if the team is still in the gutter!!!

I would argue DCat and Kubalik, at minimum, are part of the rebuild and will be key pieces of the rebuilt core.

That’s feasible and I won’t even argue that!

Now. Going forward we need a 1,2 and 3 defenseman. Is it also possible that we have one of them, sure. So I’ll even give that.

Moving forward once Toews and Kane are either not here by leaving UFA or are just no longer relevant. We have Dach, Dcat, Kubalik and let’s say Strome for the top 6.

Bottom 6 role players we have really nothing going forward. But let’s say there are a couple. I still stand by my original assessment that the Hawks will need 8-10 players to be competitive again. And all of that is the perfect storm right now and it won’t work out that way.

Right now besides Carlsson, I haven’t seen much out of the crop of D prospects that suggest they’re sure fire NHLers, or even NHL players at this point

Stan Bowman came right out and said we don’t have enough players compete. He’s said it 15 times now. He doesn’t mean we’re 3-4 players short of a championship team. He knows as well as everyone that this team is about 10 players short on a good day. He ya gonna take some time to find out if any of these kids are good, and if not, it’s gonna take some time to find more. Rinse and repeat. This process takes years, sometimes a decade for the right mix to happen. So if anyone thinks this thing is just a couple of drafts away, they’re in for a rude rude awakening!!!

[gigecj]

Curious, in the face of all the doom and gloom, when would attendance become affected negatively?

[BigT]

Nov 29, 2020 14:40:10 GMT -6 gigecj said:

Curious, in the face of all the doom and gloom, when would attendance become affected negatively?

I give it till Toews and Kane are due. I doubt they go with a rebuilding team. I really doubt they do.

This is why most fans are fair weather. Even Detroit was supposed to be Hockey Town. They draw at best 50% attendance now that there’s no real star on that team. Same will happen in Chicago. No stars equals no fans. That’s why I believe the time to trade them is now. There’s gonna be no fans regardless, so why not pull the trigger now?

I just read an article that the Jets offered Laine for Toews. The Hawks said nay. I’m not saying I’d do that, but that’d be a starting point for me.

Stan’s way will end up leading to a full rebuild. His team will probably make the playoffs, but never amount to much and then they’ll blow it up once T and K ride off. Then attendance will hit 12k per night..... again!!!

[Tater]

Nov 29, 2020 15:45:11 GMT -6 BigT said:

I give it till Toews and Kane are due. I doubt they go with a rebuilding team. I really doubt they do.

This is why most fans are fair weather. Even Detroit was supposed to be Hockey Town. They draw at best 50% attendance now that there’s no real star on that team. Same will happen in Chicago. No stars equals no fans. That’s why I believe the time to trade them is now. There’s gonna be no fans regardless, so why not pull the trigger now?

I just read an article that the Jets offered Laine for Toews. The Hawks said nay. I’m not saying I’d do that, but that’d be a starting point for me.

Stan’s way will end up leading to a full rebuild. His team will probably make the playoffs, but never amount to much and then they’ll blow it up once T and K ride off. Then attendance will hit 12k per night..... again!!!

Sad, but all true.

[T-man2010]

Nov 29, 2020 15:45:11 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 29, 2020 14:40:10 GMT -6 gigecj said:

Curious, in the face of all the doom and gloom, when would attendance become affected negatively?

I give it till Toews and Kane are due. I doubt they go with a rebuilding team. I really doubt they do.

This is why most fans are fair weather. Even Detroit was supposed to be Hockey Town. They draw at best 50% attendance now that there’s no real star on that team. Same will happen in Chicago. No stars equals no fans. That’s why I believe the time to trade them is now. There’s gonna be no fans regardless, so why not pull the trigger now?

I just read an article that the Jets offered Laine for Toews. The Hawks said nay. I’m not saying I’d do that, but that’d be a starting point for me.

Stan’s way will end up leading to a full rebuild. His team will probably make the playoffs, but never amount to much and then they’ll blow it up once T and K ride off. Then attendance will hit 12k per night..... again!!!

Talking to friends in Detroit their ticket sales are still the same.
The empty seats in the bowl area that is always in camera view are corporate bought seats.
The "true fans" still stand in line for the upper sections

[BigT]

Nov 30, 2020 6:59:45 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Nov 29, 2020 15:45:11 GMT -6 BigT said:

I give it till Toews and Kane are due. I doubt they go with a rebuilding team. I really doubt they do.

This is why most fans are fair weather. Even Detroit was supposed to be Hockey Town. They draw at best 50% attendance now that there’s no real star on that team. Same will happen in Chicago. No stars equals no fans. That’s why I believe the time to trade them is now. There’s gonna be no fans regardless, so why not pull the trigger now?

I just read an article that the Jets offered Laine for Toews. The Hawks said nay. I’m not saying I’d do that, but that’d be a starting point for me.

Stan’s way will end up leading to a full rebuild. His team will probably make the playoffs, but never amount to much and then they’ll blow it up once T and K ride off. Then attendance will hit 12k per night..... again!!!

Talking to friends in Detroit their ticket sales are still the same.
The empty seats in the bowl area that is always in camera view are corporate bought seats.
The "true fans" still stand in line for the upper sections

I went to a few games last year. I know someone who played for the Flames. So we bought tickets in the lower bowl and there were many many tickets available on the Wings site and on ticket master. I mean many. We got 10th row for 65$ each ticket. Amazing seats. And I’d say the upper bowl at the new LCA isn’t very big. The main bowl is where all the seats are. The upper bowl is called level 2. But there the suites and mezzanine in between. I’ve sat up high too, terrible seats at best. I also seen the Hawks last year. I seen Buffalo (free tickets), and the Leaves. The Hawks had a lot of Hawks fans there. Flames had minimal and the attendance there must of been 10k at best. The leaves game was close to sold out due to the litany of leaves fans that came over from Windsor.

So from what I’ve seen. Especially through ticket master and the Wings box office. The lower bowl is not even close to sold out. Corporate seats are now the suites. They never really had them at Joe Louis. So the main bowl is for the people!!!

[hsbob]

Nov 29, 2020 13:01:03 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 29, 2020 11:53:23 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

That may be true but we're not starting from scratch - we're already at least a couple years into the 5-8 year process. Granted we're farther along in the process with the forwards than the d-men but even with the d-men we're not starting at zero.

I’m gonna say we’re 1 year in to a rebuild. I’d say getting Dach was the start. Right now none of the other kids drafted in the past 2-3 years besides Dach have actually made the NHL. We’re no further along than year one of a rebuild. Stan’s way, if it does work out, will take 5 years to come to fruition. Once Dach is 24, he’ll be on top of his game. Also they’ll need Boqvist to become a true #1. Reichel to be at a minimum like Sharp, Carlsson to be like Hammer or something similar. Mitchell to be like Leddy. We also need a Bickell type, a Hossa type, plus not to mention we need a young Toews and or Kane type players to get this thing back to where it was. We are also missing a top notch goalie. So you can easily see that we are a bunch of players away from contending again. Probably 9-10 players away.

The problem with the Hawks is this, they will not have cap space for another 3-4 years. So they still won’t be able to “go for it” for some time. So I don’t see anything but a full rebuild to do this properly. Doing it Stan’s way is just prolonging the inevitable. There’s just no way to get back to the top of the heap with our cap situation and our drafting position.

I know many want to buy what the org is selling. But please think about it realistically. There is no 2 year plan. The only way that happens is if the Hawks get lucky and get back to back 1st overalls. That would help immensely. But the realistic approach the org s taking is finishing 2-3 spots out of the playoffs and drafting anywhere from 10–15. So the plan is not going to work. Unless Stan and the org have something else up their sleeves that hasn’t shown itself yet. But I doubt they do.

My best guess is the dynamic duo finish their deals and see only a few pieces to work with. They leave UFA and the team is thrust right into the throes of a full rebuild. Then we will finally see the 1st overalls and top 3 picks for a few years. Which will take Dach to his UFA status himself, and he probably leaves UFA if the team is still in the gutter!!!

To be fair,1st rounders Jokiharju and Boqvist both made the league @19 but that's not the good fortune it should've been because the the staff didn't like Jokiharju and I'm not sure the staff can develop Boqvist properly either.

I just don't know what to say to someone who tells me a team that added five veterans for over 20M the summer before last was already rebuilding........I just don't.

The Lehner signing is a signing by a GM who figures he's close.......period!  A rebuilding team gets a look at both Delia and Lankinen but as it is,Lankenin is yet to see a big league start and will again be part of the three GT carousel and this article says "it's hard to call him a true contender"....
 blackhawkup.com/2020/11/30/will-get-greatest-opportunity-net-chicago-blackhawks/

If the expensive veterans who were added were on one year deals,that's one thing but three are still here for another year or two after eating $$$ to move one and getting a mediocre return for Lehner. A healthy Shaw,Smith and de Haan jam things up for kids seein quality minutes and expecting more injuries from the often injured/11.7 M combo to give the kids a shot is one hell of a way to run a rebuild........maybe ruin a rebuild. 

Maybe it's just me but when the best thing that can come of three acquisitions that cost 11.7M is maybe they're all out long enough again to get a look at a few kids,those were three trades that didn't need to happen to say the least.  

[BigT]

Nov 30, 2020 9:31:59 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Nov 29, 2020 13:01:03 GMT -6 BigT said:

I’m gonna say we’re 1 year in to a rebuild. I’d say getting Dach was the start. Right now none of the other kids drafted in the past 2-3 years besides Dach have actually made the NHL. We’re no further along than year one of a rebuild. Stan’s way, if it does work out, will take 5 years to come to fruition. Once Dach is 24, he’ll be on top of his game. Also they’ll need Boqvist to become a true #1. Reichel to be at a minimum like Sharp, Carlsson to be like Hammer or something similar. Mitchell to be like Leddy. We also need a Bickell type, a Hossa type, plus not to mention we need a young Toews and or Kane type players to get this thing back to where it was. We are also missing a top notch goalie. So you can easily see that we are a bunch of players away from contending again. Probably 9-10 players away.

The problem with the Hawks is this, they will not have cap space for another 3-4 years. So they still won’t be able to “go for it” for some time. So I don’t see anything but a full rebuild to do this properly. Doing it Stan’s way is just prolonging the inevitable. There’s just no way to get back to the top of the heap with our cap situation and our drafting position.

I know many want to buy what the org is selling. But please think about it realistically. There is no 2 year plan. The only way that happens is if the Hawks get lucky and get back to back 1st overalls. That would help immensely. But the realistic approach the org s taking is finishing 2-3 spots out of the playoffs and drafting anywhere from 10–15. So the plan is not going to work. Unless Stan and the org have something else up their sleeves that hasn’t shown itself yet. But I doubt they do.

My best guess is the dynamic duo finish their deals and see only a few pieces to work with. They leave UFA and the team is thrust right into the throes of a full rebuild. Then we will finally see the 1st overalls and top 3 picks for a few years. Which will take Dach to his UFA status himself, and he probably leaves UFA if the team is still in the gutter!!!

To be fair,1st rounders Jokiharju and Boqvist both made the league @19 but that's not the good fortune it should've been because the the staff didn't like Jokiharju and I'm not sure the staff can develop Boqvist properly either.

I just don't know what to say to someone who tells me a team that added five veterans for over 20M the summer before last was already rebuilding........I just don't.

The Lehner signing is a signing by a GM who figures he's close.......period!  A rebuilding team gets a look at both Delia and Lankinen but as it is,Lankenin is yet to see a big league start and will again be part of the three GT carousel and this article says "it's hard to call him a true contender"....
 blackhawkup.com/2020/11/30/will-get-greatest-opportunity-net-chicago-blackhawks/

If the expensive veterans who were added were on one year deals,that's one thing but three are still here for another year or two after eating $$$ to move one and getting a mediocre return for Lehner. A healthy Shaw,Smith and de Haan jam things up for kids seein quality minutes and expecting more injuries from the often injured/11.7 M combo to give the kids a shot is one hell of a way to run a rebuild........maybe ruin a rebuild. 

Maybe it's just me but when the best thing that can come of three acquisitions that cost 11.7M is maybe they're all out long enough again to get a look at a few kids,those were three trades that didn't need to happen to say the least.  

You’re absolutely right about the players brought in last summer. Couldn’t be more right.

I just think that Boqvist has establish himself as an NHL regular before we crown him. He seems like he may get it, but he also shows a lot of flashes of a kid that’ll turn out like Runblad. So I don’t consider him nothing special yet. If he has another year like this past one, is he a bust? Cuz I don’t believe he even belonged in the NHL last year. If he didn’t have the 8th overall tag on him, he wouldn’t have been here.

I don’t know how many years you give him? Cuz we need to see improvement next year. If not, he’s not an NHL player at this point. He needs to show much much more than he has. Cuz if doesn’t, he’ll be 30 before you know it and still trying to live up to the 8th overall tag. So let’s hope we see a massive improvement in him!!!

[hsbob]

Nov 30, 2020 13:46:43 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 30, 2020 9:31:59 GMT -6 hsbob said:

To be fair,1st rounders Jokiharju and Boqvist both made the league @19 but that's not the good fortune it should've been because the the staff didn't like Jokiharju and I'm not sure the staff can develop Boqvist properly either.

I just don't know what to say to someone who tells me a team that added five veterans for over 20M the summer before last was already rebuilding........I just don't.

The Lehner signing is a signing by a GM who figures he's close.......period!  A rebuilding team gets a look at both Delia and Lankinen but as it is,Lankenin is yet to see a big league start and will again be part of the three GT carousel and this article says "it's hard to call him a true contender"....
 blackhawkup.com/2020/11/30/will-get-greatest-opportunity-net-chicago-blackhawks/

If the expensive veterans who were added were on one year deals,that's one thing but three are still here for another year or two after eating $$$ to move one and getting a mediocre return for Lehner. A healthy Shaw,Smith and de Haan jam things up for kids seein quality minutes and expecting more injuries from the often injured/11.7 M combo to give the kids a shot is one hell of a way to run a rebuild........maybe ruin a rebuild. 

Maybe it's just me but when the best thing that can come of three acquisitions that cost 11.7M is maybe they're all out long enough again to get a look at a few kids,those were three trades that didn't need to happen to say the least.  

You’re absolutely right about the players brought in last summer. Couldn’t be more right.

I just think that Boqvist has establish himself as an NHL regular before we crown him. He seems like he may get it, but he also shows a lot of flashes of a kid that’ll turn out like Runblad. So I don’t consider him nothing special yet. If he has another year like this past one, is he a bust? Cuz I don’t believe he even belonged in the NHL last year. If he didn’t have the 8th overall tag on him, he wouldn’t have been here.

I don’t know how many years you give him? Cuz we need to see improvement next year. If not, he’s not an NHL player at this point. He needs to show much much more than he has. Cuz if doesn’t, he’ll be 30 before you know it and still trying to live up to the 8th overall tag. So let’s hope we see a massive improvement in him!!!

I thought Boqvist has the tools to play at the big league level as far as foot speed and quickness,I expected to see more offense but a 25pt pace was okay. I'm not sure where he ends up as a player either and will have to develop further as most 20yros do. Maybe Zadorov's presence helps the small framed youngster who's already seen a quiet room or two. We knew his play in his own end needed work and it got 41 games worth,maybe decisions start coming easier and quicker and we gotta remember.........for what it's worth........the kid was Q's last cut.......at 18!  

[BigT]

Dec 1, 2020 9:13:57 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Nov 30, 2020 13:46:43 GMT -6 BigT said:

You’re absolutely right about the players brought in last summer. Couldn’t be more right.

I just think that Boqvist has establish himself as an NHL regular before we crown him. He seems like he may get it, but he also shows a lot of flashes of a kid that’ll turn out like Runblad. So I don’t consider him nothing special yet. If he has another year like this past one, is he a bust? Cuz I don’t believe he even belonged in the NHL last year. If he didn’t have the 8th overall tag on him, he wouldn’t have been here.

I don’t know how many years you give him? Cuz we need to see improvement next year. If not, he’s not an NHL player at this point. He needs to show much much more than he has. Cuz if doesn’t, he’ll be 30 before you know it and still trying to live up to the 8th overall tag. So let’s hope we see a massive improvement in him!!!

I thought Boqvist has the tools to play at the big league level as far as foot speed and quickness,I expected to see more offense but a 25pt pace was okay. I'm not sure where he ends up as a player either and will have to develop further as most 20yros do. Maybe Zadorov's presence helps the small framed youngster who's already seen a quiet room or two. We knew his play in his own end needed work and it got 41 games worth,maybe decisions start coming easier and quicker and we gotta remember.........for what it's worth........the kid was Q's last cut.......at 18!  

My worry is that he just doesn’t care for any physical play. He gives up the puck and position to get out of it. Right now, he’s not gonna help a team that much, all he brings at this moment is hope. And that just isn’t enough. At least Dach showed he cares and got walloped while caring. I thought Carlsson (while older) looked much more cut out for the NHL game at this point than Boqvist. We must remember, Runblad came in with a lot of promise and hope. Stan gave him 2-3 years to prove his worth as Stan was fully convinced he was the real deal. He’s looking for his Swedish crown jewel!

I’m not giving up on him. I just haven’t seen much to indicate he’ll be a high end skilled dman in this league. If you look at guys like McAvoy(22), Q Hughes(20), Makar(21), Heiskanen(21), Chabot(23), Provorov(23) have all shown massive promise in their 1st years. And much more in their second year and so on. If we see nothing new out of our 20 year old rearguard, I’m not sure we’ll ever see it. He’s gotta show a lot more this year, or he’ll just get passed in depth chart!!!

[galaxytrash]

maybe a waste of time to discuss nhl standings in a season that might not occur, with a schedule that hasn't been released and in divisions that haven't been confirmed but hey...we're in the doldrums here.

i think chicago's 77 points is pretty close. 
and on a side note, how the hell is vancouver so low?

[LordKOTL]

Dec 3, 2020 0:48:11 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

maybe a waste of time to discuss nhl standings in a season that might not occur, with a schedule that hasn't been released and in divisions that haven't been confirmed but hey...we're in the doldrums here.

i think chicago's 77 points is pretty close. 
and on a side note, how the hell is vancouver so low?

I'd agree with that.

On paper it looks like we're heading into a season that has all the hallmarks of the backend of 2018:  ~.900 goaltending behind a team D that leaks shots like a sieve.  That team (After Crawford went down) was bottom-3 in the league.

The wildcards in that:

• Can Subban, Delia, or Lankinen be something other than a ~.900 goaltender?  Lankinen IMHO has the best shot and he's a complete unknown at NHL level.
• With Toews, Kane, & Koob--along with a resurgence by Debrincat and taking a step forward by Dach--can that be enough offense to pull the team completely out of the cellar and win games on it's own?  Keeling in mind--there will not be Crawford (or Lehner) to bail them and the rest of the team out on an off night.
• Can Zaddy take a step up to be a 2-3 instead of a 3-4 and make a meaningful impact on the defense--especially with everyone else getting older--and for that matter, can Seabrook do anything meaningful other than mentorship?
• If the team does go into a funk--will we see the core players completely bail?  And, if they do how much of their time will be given to the rookies and other up-and-comers as opposed to running the core roughshod?
• Will any winning streak dissilusion Bowman the Beancounter into halting the rebuild to go for it?

[hsbob]

Dec 3, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Dec 3, 2020 0:48:11 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

maybe a waste of time to discuss nhl standings in a season that might not occur, with a schedule that hasn't been released and in divisions that haven't been confirmed but hey...we're in the doldrums here.

i think chicago's 77 points is pretty close. 
and on a side note, how the hell is vancouver so low?

I'd agree with that.

On paper it looks like we're heading into a season that has all the hallmarks of the backend of 2018:  ~.900 goaltending behind a team D that leaks shots like a sieve.  That team (After Crawford went down) was bottom-3 in the league.

The wildcards in that:

• Can Subban, Delia, or Lankinen be something other than a ~.900 goaltender?  Lankinen IMHO has the best shot and he's a complete unknown at NHL level.
• With Toews, Kane, & Koob--along with a resurgence by Debrincat and taking a step forward by Dach--can that be enough offense to pull the team completely out of the cellar and win games on it's own?  Keeling in mind--there will not be Crawford (or Lehner) to bail them and the rest of the team out on an off night.
• Can Zaddy take a step up to be a 2-3 instead of a 3-4 and make a meaningful impact on the defense--especially with everyone else getting older--and for that matter, can Seabrook do anything meaningful other than mentorship?
• If the team does go into a funk--will we see the core players completely bail?  And, if they do how much of their time will be given to the rookies and other up-and-comers as opposed to running the core roughshod?
• Will any winning streak dissilusion Bowman the Beancounter into halting the rebuild to go for it?

I mentioned your last point in a few earlier posts. What does SB do if a few kids are off to good starts and the team's sniffin' a spot? 

The way this particular rebuild's been explained,any success will be termed 'ahead of schedule' and a horrendous season will be termed 'we're rebuilding and we need the good pick'......all the bases are covered for the FO and it'll be that way for another few years with 'Prince Daniel' at the reigns.     

[T-man2010]

Dec 3, 2020 10:01:05 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 3, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

I'd agree with that.

On paper it looks like we're heading into a season that has all the hallmarks of the backend of 2018:  ~.900 goaltending behind a team D that leaks shots like a sieve.  That team (After Crawford went down) was bottom-3 in the league.

The wildcards in that:

• Can Subban, Delia, or Lankinen be something other than a ~.900 goaltender?  Lankinen IMHO has the best shot and he's a complete unknown at NHL level.
• With Toews, Kane, & Koob--along with a resurgence by Debrincat and taking a step forward by Dach--can that be enough offense to pull the team completely out of the cellar and win games on it's own?  Keeling in mind--there will not be Crawford (or Lehner) to bail them and the rest of the team out on an off night.
• Can Zaddy take a step up to be a 2-3 instead of a 3-4 and make a meaningful impact on the defense--especially with everyone else getting older--and for that matter, can Seabrook do anything meaningful other than mentorship?
• If the team does go into a funk--will we see the core players completely bail?  And, if they do how much of their time will be given to the rookies and other up-and-comers as opposed to running the core roughshod?
• Will any winning streak dissilusion Bowman the Beancounter into halting the rebuild to go for it?

I mentioned your last point in a few earlier posts. What does SB do if a few kids are off to good starts and the team's sniffin' a spot? 

The way this particular rebuild's been explained,any success will be termed 'ahead of schedule' and a horrendous season will be termed 'we're rebuilding and we need the good pick'......all the bases are covered for the FO and it'll be that way for another few years with 'Prince Daniel' at the reigns.     

Worse thing to happen to a "rebuild" is that the kids actually get better.
If they do get a sniff, they will not be any kind of real contender.
Better off throttling the kids back and go with loser FA's on the cheap and really tank.

[LordKOTL]

Dec 3, 2020 12:00:15 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Dec 3, 2020 10:01:05 GMT -6 hsbob said:

I mentioned your last point in a few earlier posts. What does SB do if a few kids are off to good starts and the team's sniffin' a spot? 

The way this particular rebuild's been explained,any success will be termed 'ahead of schedule' and a horrendous season will be termed 'we're rebuilding and we need the good pick'......all the bases are covered for the FO and it'll be that way for another few years with 'Prince Daniel' at the reigns.     

Worse thing to happen to a "rebuild" is that the kids actually get better.
If they do get a sniff, they will not be any kind of real contender.
Better off throttling the kids back and go with loser FA's on the cheap and really tank.

Good thing that's what Stan has been doing the past few seasons.  Now that we don't have an NHL-caliber starter goalie it might pan out.

[galaxytrash]

Dec 3, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Dec 3, 2020 0:48:11 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

maybe a waste of time to discuss nhl standings in a season that might not occur, with a schedule that hasn't been released and in divisions that haven't been confirmed but hey...we're in the doldrums here.

i think chicago's 77 points is pretty close. 
and on a side note, how the hell is vancouver so low?

On paper it looks like we're heading into a season that has all the hallmarks of the backend of 2018:  ~.900 goaltending behind a team D that leaks shots like a sieve.  That team (After Crawford went down) was bottom-3 in the league.

The wildcards in that:

• Can Subban, Delia, or Lankinen be something other than a ~.900 goaltender?  Lankinen IMHO has the best shot and he's a complete unknown at NHL level.

not disputing your point at all but i'd say it's not good when the goalie you pick to be our starter has the best shot just because he's the one you know least about.   : )

[LordKOTL]

Dec 3, 2020 18:15:14 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Dec 3, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

On paper it looks like we're heading into a season that has all the hallmarks of the backend of 2018:  ~.900 goaltending behind a team D that leaks shots like a sieve.  That team (After Crawford went down) was bottom-3 in the league.

The wildcards in that:

• Can Subban, Delia, or Lankinen be something other than a ~.900 goaltender?  Lankinen IMHO has the best shot and he's a complete unknown at NHL level.

not disputing your point at all but i'd say it's not good when the goalie you pick to be our starter has the best shot just because he's the one you know least about.   : )

Yeah...it's not good.  Someone mentioned that Stan might be looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Subban, but the numbers don't mete this out.  I mentioned in another thread than when Crawford saw as much NHL rubber as Subban has...he was a .917.  That is one ginormous gamble unless the goal is indeed to tank--and not tank in the bringing in rookies way--tank-tank.

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

[Tater]

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

And then Stan picks another Mark McNeill.

[ebonyraptor]

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Dec 3, 2020 18:15:14 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

not disputing your point at all but i'd say it's not good when the goalie you pick to be our starter has the best shot just because he's the one you know least about.   : )

Yeah...it's not good.  Someone mentioned that Stan might be looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Subban, but the numbers don't mete this out.  I mentioned in another thread than when Crawford saw as much NHL rubber as Subban has...he was a .917.  That is one ginormous gamble unless the goal is indeed to tank--and not tank in the bringing in rookies way--tank-tank.

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

If the Hawks have the worst record in the league - the worst they can get is the #4 draft pick. There are 4 potential #1 d-men projected to go in the top-10 in the 2021 draft: Owen Power, Brandt Clarke, Carlos Lambos, and Simon Edvinsson. All have good size and can skate. Hopefully the Hawks are in the draft position to get one of those guys.

[galaxytrash]

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:50 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Yeah...it's not good.  Someone mentioned that Stan might be looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Subban, but the numbers don't mete this out.  I mentioned in another thread than when Crawford saw as much NHL rubber as Subban has...he was a .917.  That is one ginormous gamble unless the goal is indeed to tank--and not tank in the bringing in rookies way--tank-tank.

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

If the Hawks have the worst record in the league - the worst they can get is the #4 draft pick.

that's what i love about you ER.
your positivity!

i kid, i kid...

: )

[ebonyraptor]

Dec 4, 2020 2:52:33 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:50 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

If the Hawks have the worst record in the league - the worst they can get is the #4 draft pick.

that's what i love about you ER.
your positivity!

i kid, i kid...

: )

Strive to be as bad as you can I say.

[T-man2010]

Dec 4, 2020 2:52:33 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:50 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

If the Hawks have the worst record in the league - the worst they can get is the #4 draft pick.

that's what i love about you ER.
your positivity!

i kid, i kid...

: )

[LordKOTL]

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:05 GMT -6 Tater said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

And then Stan picks another Mark McNeill.

Bingo.

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:50 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Yeah...it's not good.  Someone mentioned that Stan might be looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Subban, but the numbers don't mete this out.  I mentioned in another thread than when Crawford saw as much NHL rubber as Subban has...he was a .917.  That is one ginormous gamble unless the goal is indeed to tank--and not tank in the bringing in rookies way--tank-tank.

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

If the Hawks have the worst record in the league - the worst they can get is the #4 draft pick. There are 4 potential #1 d-men projected to go in the top-10 in the 2021 draft: Owen Power, Brandt Clarke, Carlos Lambos, and Simon Edvinsson. All have good size and can skate. Hopefully the Hawks are in the draft position to get one of those guys.

See above ^^^.  Yeah, I know I'm just a bloody ray of sunshine.

[ebonyraptor]

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:05 GMT -6 Tater said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:07:57 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

But knowing Stan's luck on gambles...watch: we finish last in the league and get the worst lottery pick we could possibly get in that situation.

And then Stan picks another Mark McNeill.

Hey, at least McNeill was out in the middle of the 1st round. The one that really stings was Cam Barker at #3, followed closely by Jack Skille at #7. YEESH! 

[BigT]

Dec 4, 2020 12:50:28 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Dec 4, 2020 0:53:05 GMT -6 Tater said:

And then Stan picks another Mark McNeill.

Hey, at least McNeill was out in the middle of the 1st round. The one that really stings was Cam Barker at #3, followed closely by Jack Skille at #7. YEESH! 

Barker was still a good pick. He had a phenomenal year in 2008/09. He had 40 points in 68 games. Problem is, he mashed up his ankle and was never the same. Just some bad luck!!!

[ebonyraptor]

Dec 4, 2020 15:06:51 GMT -6 BigT said:

Dec 4, 2020 12:50:28 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Hey, at least McNeill was out in the middle of the 1st round. The one that really stings was Cam Barker at #3, followed closely by Jack Skille at #7. YEESH! 

Barker was still a good pick. He had a phenomenal year in 2008/09. He had 40 points in 68 games. Problem is, he mashed up his ankle and was never the same. Just some bad luck!!!

I didn't think he was a good enough skater even before he got injured. It seemed like he was more of a big bodied defender right when the league was getting faster. Maybe my memory is a little off ... won't be the first time.