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Post by vadarx on May 14, 2022 16:32:34 GMT -6
I’ve been in a suite for the last 5 Spitfires games with quite a few that work in the NHL, or have worked. I’m telling that everyone would take Toews at half price. “He’s the ultimate winner”. “Best faceoff guy in the last 20 years”. “Smartest fucking player I’ve ever seen”. “You give up the farm for Johnny Fucking Toews”. I think it’s safe to say that Toews will not be hard to move. At all. Especially half price. Most even said they put spect Toews to be a 20 goal 35 assist guy for the next few years. Especially on a better team. I don’t think that’s a lot to go right. I think that’s just taking advantage of their assets. I could see the Kane trade happening. There’s been rumours for a while. Dcat is a great scorer that many teams will want. I could see that trade panning out. I’ve actually heard rumours that Verbeek wants to make a splash and get a couple top players to compliment what they got now. Again. I cannot predict the future. But keeping all those guys is a massive problem. I feel they need to use asset management. Get ahead of the curve. I know I was probably annoying with my Scambo bashing all those years. But no one can’t say I wasn’t wrong. Even when they won, I said this guy has sold the Hawks down the River. And it was true. Tallon laid out his blue print. It worked very well. I’m sure if they follow something along those lines, it’ll work out well again!!! You don't have to sing JT's praises to me I went though some SHIT supportin' him! I believe we would find more than one taker for half retained also but I see a more meager return myself......we'll see. It's just "worked out" for so few teams and hasn't for so many and we're basically at ground zero as far as progress toward a rebuild. same. zero doubt that MANY teams would love to have him, but lots of doubt that he brings back much in return. I'd rather him stay and lead the youth movement (if that is what he wants to do). Kane and Dcat are the guys to trade if you want first rounders and/or top prospects. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 14, 2022 16:43:41 GMT -6
You don't have to sing JT's praises to me I went though some SHIT supportin' him! I believe we would find more than one taker for half retained also but I see a more meager return myself......we'll see. It's just "worked out" for so few teams and hasn't for so many and we're basically at ground zero as far as progress toward a rebuild. same. zero doubt that MANY teams would love to have him, but lots of doubt that he brings back much in return. I'd rather him stay and lead the youth movement (if that is what he wants to do). Kane and Dcat are the guys to trade if you want first rounders and/or top prospects. Yeah I highly doubt the Hawks would Byram and a 1st, if the offers for Toews isn't worth it I hope he'd wanna stay and lead the way. Once Toews accepted the rebuild and was more patient with the kids he was playing better and looked like he was having fun. He can sign a much cheaper contract after next season and finish his career here, if he wants. But yeah to deepen the roster with prospects and higher picks Kane and Debrincat should be moved. Sucks cause I've been a huge fan of Debrincat since his junior days and he's just entering his prime, and of course I love Kane but I'm also realistic and the team needs help from the NHL to AHL. I've mentioned offering Debrincat for the 1st overall and Guhle, Montreal really wants Debrincat so it seems like a win win for both teams. Add Quebecer Beaudin. |
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Post by BigT on May 14, 2022 21:30:51 GMT -6
same. zero doubt that MANY teams would love to have him, but lots of doubt that he brings back much in return. I'd rather him stay and lead the youth movement (if that is what he wants to do). Kane and Dcat are the guys to trade if you want first rounders and/or top prospects. Yeah I highly doubt the Hawks would Byram and a 1st, if the offers for Toews isn't worth it I hope he'd wanna stay and lead the way. Once Toews accepted the rebuild and was more patient with the kids he was playing better and looked like he was having fun. He can sign a much cheaper contract after next season and finish his career here, if he wants. But yeah to deepen the roster with prospects and higher picks Kane and Debrincat should be moved. Sucks cause I've been a huge fan of Debrincat since his junior days and he's just entering his prime, and of course I love Kane but I'm also realistic and the team needs help from the NHL to AHL. I've mentioned offering Debrincat for the 1st overall and Guhle, Montreal really wants Debrincat so it seems like a win win for both teams. Add Quebecer Beaudin. I don’t think the Habs trade the pick. Especially with Guhle. I think for the Habs in their home town draft, to trade that pick it’d take a lot to deal it away. Having the first pick in front of a packed Bell Center is sooooo huge for them. Personally. I’d rather have Wright and Guhle over any two of the Hawks players. Habs will do things the right way it seems. However another rumour is that Verbeek will want to make a splash. Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat. I don’t believe Dcat will be as hot as a commodity as Hawks fans think. This year was the most players in 30 years to reach 100 points. 8 players with 100 points and one with 99. Dcat was 37th in league scoring. I don’t think I give up that much for him. If Anaheim was willing to part with Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat and Beaudin. I do it all day long. Thanks know many Hawks fans will stick up for Dcat and say that I’m not paying attention to his 41 goals. I get it, he’s a favourite here. I love him too. But the fact is that he was 37th in league scoring. Not a top 10 or 15 guy. So can’t expect the world for him!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 15, 2022 0:08:23 GMT -6
Yeah I highly doubt the Hawks would Byram and a 1st, if the offers for Toews isn't worth it I hope he'd wanna stay and lead the way. Once Toews accepted the rebuild and was more patient with the kids he was playing better and looked like he was having fun. He can sign a much cheaper contract after next season and finish his career here, if he wants. But yeah to deepen the roster with prospects and higher picks Kane and Debrincat should be moved. Sucks cause I've been a huge fan of Debrincat since his junior days and he's just entering his prime, and of course I love Kane but I'm also realistic and the team needs help from the NHL to AHL. I've mentioned offering Debrincat for the 1st overall and Guhle, Montreal really wants Debrincat so it seems like a win win for both teams. Add Quebecer Beaudin. I don’t think the Habs trade the pick. Especially with Guhle. I think for the Habs in their home town draft, to trade that pick it’d take a lot to deal it away. Having the first pick in front of a packed Bell Center is sooooo huge for them. Personally. I’d rather have Wright and Guhle over any two of the Hawks players. Habs will do things the right way it seems. However another rumour is that Verbeek will want to make a splash. Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat. I don’t believe Dcat will be as hot as a commodity as Hawks fans think. This year was the most players in 30 years to reach 100 points. 8 players with 100 points and one with 99. Dcat was 37th in league scoring. I don’t think I give up that much for him. If Anaheim was willing to part with Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat and Beaudin. I do it all day long. Thanks know many Hawks fans will stick up for Dcat and say that I’m not paying attention to his 41 goals. I get it, he’s a favourite here. I love him too. But the fact is that he was 37th in league scoring. Not a top 10 or 15 guy. So can’t expect the world for him!!! Forgot it's in Montreal, yeah no way they'll trade the 1st. But that's the type of moves KD should be looking for. I like Drysdale but the Ducks would need to give up more than the 10th pick. DCat might not have been top 15 in points but there's no denying he's an elite sniper on a bad team, on a playoff team he might be top 15 in points. |
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Post by BigT on May 15, 2022 7:18:11 GMT -6
I don’t think the Habs trade the pick. Especially with Guhle. I think for the Habs in their home town draft, to trade that pick it’d take a lot to deal it away. Having the first pick in front of a packed Bell Center is sooooo huge for them. Personally. I’d rather have Wright and Guhle over any two of the Hawks players. Habs will do things the right way it seems. However another rumour is that Verbeek will want to make a splash. Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat. I don’t believe Dcat will be as hot as a commodity as Hawks fans think. This year was the most players in 30 years to reach 100 points. 8 players with 100 points and one with 99. Dcat was 37th in league scoring. I don’t think I give up that much for him. If Anaheim was willing to part with Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat and Beaudin. I do it all day long. Thanks know many Hawks fans will stick up for Dcat and say that I’m not paying attention to his 41 goals. I get it, he’s a favourite here. I love him too. But the fact is that he was 37th in league scoring. Not a top 10 or 15 guy. So can’t expect the world for him!!! Forgot it's in Montreal, yeah no way they'll trade the 1st. But that's the type of moves KD should be looking for. I like Drysdale but the Ducks would need to give up more than the 10th pick. DCat might not have been top 15 in points but there's no denying he's an elite sniper on a bad team, on a playoff team he might be top 15 in points. Dcat was 14th in goals too. I’m not sure he fetches any more than that. He’s a good player, but Matt Duchene, Forsberg, Elias Lindholm all had more. This may not be the year to trade Dcat. I’m sure a few guys will be available like Fiala who had 35. I’m not saying Dcat is bad or unworthy. But teams may not be willing to give up all that much for a smaller winger who played with Kane. 17 guys got 40+ goals last season. So it’s not that rare anymore. If Dcat was one of 7-8, I’d agree his value would be much greater. Not sure where his value is. But I’m thinking Drysdale and a 1st may be too much. Not sure a team gives that up for him. Expansion always sees the goal scoring go up for a few years!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2022 8:59:26 GMT -6
I wonder if at the end of the SCF this year if 30 other teams fans are having the same debate? To different degrees I'd say. If a young team on the come gets through a tough 1st round opponent and makes a good 2nd round showing,I'd think their fanbase would be excited going into next year and Toronto's fanbase? I've lived through similar and I still don't know WTF's going through their heads this morning! I know I was 'jacked' back in '09' after a young Hawks team made the WCF and might have won 1 or 2 more if Havlat didn't get hurt and Khabi didn't fill his shorts. Then 'Big Hoss' was signed and I was FULLY ON BOARD but then for some godforsaken reason........Talon was launched for DUMBASS. |
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2022 9:25:13 GMT -6
Yeah I highly doubt the Hawks would Byram and a 1st, if the offers for Toews isn't worth it I hope he'd wanna stay and lead the way. Once Toews accepted the rebuild and was more patient with the kids he was playing better and looked like he was having fun. He can sign a much cheaper contract after next season and finish his career here, if he wants. But yeah to deepen the roster with prospects and higher picks Kane and Debrincat should be moved. Sucks cause I've been a huge fan of Debrincat since his junior days and he's just entering his prime, and of course I love Kane but I'm also realistic and the team needs help from the NHL to AHL. I've mentioned offering Debrincat for the 1st overall and Guhle, Montreal really wants Debrincat so it seems like a win win for both teams. Add Quebecer Beaudin. I don’t think the Habs trade the pick. Especially with Guhle. I think for the Habs in their home town draft, to trade that pick it’d take a lot to deal it away. Having the first pick in front of a packed Bell Center is sooooo huge for them. Personally. I’d rather have Wright and Guhle over any two of the Hawks players. Habs will do things the right way it seems. However another rumour is that Verbeek will want to make a splash. Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat. I don’t believe Dcat will be as hot as a commodity as Hawks fans think. This year was the most players in 30 years to reach 100 points. 8 players with 100 points and one with 99. Dcat was 37th in league scoring. I don’t think I give up that much for him. If Anaheim was willing to part with Drysdale and a 1st for Dcat and Beaudin. I do it all day long. Thanks know many Hawks fans will stick up for Dcat and say that I’m not paying attention to his 41 goals. I get it, he’s a favourite here. I love him too. But the fact is that he was 37th in league scoring. Not a top 10 or 15 guy. So can’t expect the world for him!!! You're totally overlooking his 41 goal(6th best) sophomore season,I was told the league would figure him out after his 28 goal rookie season.....LOL! How about the 50 goal pace he saw last year when he finished 3rd in the league......on bad teams. We'll leave out the year he was forced into a checking role but even with it........the kid's averaged over 35+ in a 82 game season and 82 game seasons are all he plays when they play 82 because he still hasn't missed a game to injury. He's also improved with a career high in assists and plays a respectable all-around game. If the Cat was with Kane and Strome for a full year instead of half of it 50/100 would have been easily attainable. So it's just us "Hawk fans" and he's only "a favorite here"? So your saying the 'real' hockey people feel differently about DeBrincat and appreciate his game much less than us "Hawk fans" do? Do you have any idea how condescending that is? I'll be pushin' up fuckin' daisies the next time a Hawks draftee has a first five years of goal scoring like this kid has had(160 to Kane's 126) an you might be too my friend. |
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Post by mvr on May 15, 2022 12:03:31 GMT -6
Forgot it's in Montreal, yeah no way they'll trade the 1st. But that's the type of moves KD should be looking for. I like Drysdale but the Ducks would need to give up more than the 10th pick. DCat might not have been top 15 in points but there's no denying he's an elite sniper on a bad team, on a playoff team he might be top 15 in points. Dcat was 14th in goals too. I’m not sure he fetches any more than that. He’s a good player, but Matt Duchene, Forsberg, Elias Lindholm all had more. This may not be the year to trade Dcat. I’m sure a few guys will be available like Fiala who had 35. I’m not saying Dcat is bad or unworthy. But teams may not be willing to give up all that much for a smaller winger who played with Kane. 17 guys got 40+ goals last season. So it’s not that rare anymore. If Dcat was one of 7-8, I’d agree his value would be much greater. Not sure where his value is. But I’m thinking Drysdale and a 1st may be too much. Not sure a team gives that up for him. Expansion always sees the goal scoring go up for a few years!!! Drysdale, McTavish, and a couple of 2nd round picks. This works for me. |
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Post by BigT on May 15, 2022 13:59:34 GMT -6
Dcat was 14th in goals too. I’m not sure he fetches any more than that. He’s a good player, but Matt Duchene, Forsberg, Elias Lindholm all had more. This may not be the year to trade Dcat. I’m sure a few guys will be available like Fiala who had 35. I’m not saying Dcat is bad or unworthy. But teams may not be willing to give up all that much for a smaller winger who played with Kane. 17 guys got 40+ goals last season. So it’s not that rare anymore. If Dcat was one of 7-8, I’d agree his value would be much greater. Not sure where his value is. But I’m thinking Drysdale and a 1st may be too much. Not sure a team gives that up for him. Expansion always sees the goal scoring go up for a few years!!! Drysdale, McTavish, and a couple of 2nd round picks. This works for me. I doubt they part with McTavish. I’d bet everything I own. Let’s think about this for minute. They could just sign Forsberg (43 goals)and not lose anything. Or they could trade for Fiala that had 35 goals this year. I know some with think im diminishing Dcats value and ripping on him. Im not. I’m m just saying that there’s a lot out there this year. MVR. As the general manager of the Anaheim Ducks. Would you honestly trade a 3rd overall and a 6th overall plus two 2nd rounders for Alex Debrincat? If I was the GM of the Ducks, I’d laugh at that trade. Again I’m not saying Dcat is worthless. Just not worth that!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 15, 2022 15:10:22 GMT -6
No, I would not do it.
But of course I wouldn't sign any winger approaching UFA to a big long term (NMC) deal either (and especially a small scorer with no playoff history).
As you know, my belief is that the minute Debrincat inks that next contract, his asset value collapses (and the player becomes virtually impossible to trade).
I value Seth Jones as a player tremendously. But given the cap hit and the term, is he now worth anything in a trade? My guess is the Hawks would have to eat salary and add a trade chip to move the contract.
This is the whole reason for moving Debrincat this summer (or at the latest next trade deadline). I hope a contender sees the player as that final piece and is willing to overpay for the short term. Stan Bowman was a dreadful General Manager. But there are many others out there hanging on by a thread.
Drysdale and McTavish are nice pieces. L.A. has some very interesting prospects as well. So does Montreal, the Rangers, Islanders and others. Play them all against each other and take the best offer. But do it now, before it is too late.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 15, 2022 15:36:40 GMT -6
No, I would not do it. But of course I wouldn't sign any winger approaching UFA to a big long term (NMC) deal either (and especially a small scorer with no playoff history). As you know, my belief is that the minute Debrincat inks that next contract, his asset value collapses (and the player becomes virtually impossible to trade). I value Seth Jones as a player tremendously. But given the cap hit and the term, is he now worth anything in a trade? My guess is the Hawks would have to eat salary and add a trade chip to move the contract. This is the whole reason for moving Debrincat this summer (or at the latest next trade deadline). I hope a contender sees the player as that final piece and is willing to overpay for the short term. Stan Bowman was a dreadful General Manager. But there are many others out there hanging on by a thread. Drysdale and McTavish are nice pieces. L.A. has some very interesting prospects as well. So does Montreal, the Rangers, Islanders and others. Play them all against each other and take the best offer. But do it now, before it is too late. Considering Jones just had a career year on a bad team and he would've got a similar contract as a UFA this offseason the Hawks shouldn't need to retain salary or add a trade chip, just take back another high contract or two. Dallas tried to get him last year and he's a local boy, take back Bishop plus add in Calebs rights plus some other pieces and he could be moved. Retaining salary will go against the cap for 8yrs, not a smart move. The Hawks have 5 picks in rounds 2 and 3, trading Debrincat and Kane will definitely get them more picks in that range plus some young players, it should be done this summer now that we know the BJs have the Hawks first this year. But like the Hagel trade, I'd try and get some picks for next years draft as well. |
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Post by mvr on May 15, 2022 18:23:19 GMT -6
No, I would not do it. But of course I wouldn't sign any winger approaching UFA to a big long term (NMC) deal either (and especially a small scorer with no playoff history). As you know, my belief is that the minute Debrincat inks that next contract, his asset value collapses (and the player becomes virtually impossible to trade). I value Seth Jones as a player tremendously. But given the cap hit and the term, is he now worth anything in a trade? My guess is the Hawks would have to eat salary and add a trade chip to move the contract. This is the whole reason for moving Debrincat this summer (or at the latest next trade deadline). I hope a contender sees the player as that final piece and is willing to overpay for the short term. Stan Bowman was a dreadful General Manager. But there are many others out there hanging on by a thread. Drysdale and McTavish are nice pieces. L.A. has some very interesting prospects as well. So does Montreal, the Rangers, Islanders and others. Play them all against each other and take the best offer. But do it now, before it is too late. Considering Jones just had a career year on a bad team and he would've got a similar contract as a UFA this offseason the Hawks shouldn't need to retain salary or add a trade chip, just take back another high contract or two. Dallas tried to get him last year and he's a local boy, take back Bishop plus add in Calebs rights plus some other pieces and he could be moved. Retaining salary will go against the cap for 8yrs, not a smart move. The Hawks have 5 picks in rounds 2 and 3, trading Debrincat and Kane will definitely get them more picks in that range plus some young players, it should be done this summer now that we know the BJs have the Hawks first this year. But like the Hagel trade, I'd try and get some picks for next years draft as well. If in order to move Seth Jones the Hawks have "to take back Bishop, plus add in Caleb's rights plus some other pieces" to make the trade, then they are in effect bribing a team to take him. Is this not the same thing as what I suggested - ie "eat salary and add a trade chip?" Whatever the case, clearly we agree it will be difficult to move the player, and the return will not be exciting even though Jones remains an all-star type player. The point is that these kinds of contracts are dead weights. As soon Debrincat has inked his, the Hawks are committed to him long term through the rebuild. Do we want to make this commitment? Are we sure this is the player to build around? He is not a centre or a defenceman. |
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Post by mvr on May 15, 2022 18:35:36 GMT -6
I do agree with Hawkey in preferring to take bad salaries than retaining salary if moving Jones.
My position is that the team should try never to put themselves in the position where the choice is one or the other.
Why not try to avoid signing players to these types of deals altogether?
To my mind, the only time to do it is the player is a real franchise type such as Keith, Kane or Toews.
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Post by BigT on May 15, 2022 19:34:07 GMT -6
Valid thoughts and ideas. I feel Dcat can be dealt for a decent haul considering his age, and production to date. Now, what’s acceptable to me may not be what’s acceptable to others. I look to the LA area to get a deal done. The Kings will have some decent coin coming off the books. Same with LA’s neighbour.
I’d accept from the kings Brandt Clarke a first and 2nd round pick. Even if the years are not the same for the picks. Basically offset the picks so the Kings won’t go one year without their top 2 picks.
Or the Ducks for Drysdale and a 1st rounder.
If either of those trades could happen I’d be ecstatic. Both those Dmen could be top 2. It’s best to get 2 assets for one. Or 3 if f they can. I wouldn’t want to be married to Dcats new contract and have him be unmovable if things are going south for longer than expected. He has one year left at 6.4 which could be attractive to a team like LA who may wanna make a run next year. Basically swapping out Brown for Dcat on the active roster!!!
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2022 20:46:19 GMT -6
Let's say Jones,Kane,Toews and DeBrincat are all moved and as long as we're doin' that,we lose Strome too........how does this team even approach the cap floor........for years. Make 'The Family' happy though....wouldn't it
It looks like there's quite possibly NO young players the team will have to give big $$$ to for a LONG time(Wolves bent em over!) and the odds say that half of these fantasied about future picks and prospects fail........even the good ones,not me......the odds say that.
Just bring in bums on bad deals to get picks I guess,sounds like what the Yotes been doin' for 25 years. How many #1's have they had?
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Post by BigT on May 16, 2022 0:56:02 GMT -6
Let's say Jones,Kane,Toews and DeBrincat are all moved and as long as we're doin' that,we lose Strome too........how does this team even approach the cap floor........for years. Make 'The Family' happy though....wouldn't it It looks like there's quite possibly NO young players the team will have to give big $$$ to for a LONG time(Wolves bent em over!) and the odds say that half of these fantasied about future picks and prospects fail........even the good ones,not me......the odds say that. Just bring in bums on bad deals to get picks I guess,sounds like what the Yotes been doin' for 25 years. How many #1's have they had? Anything is possible. Even #1 overall’s fail too. I think what we’re talking about is just how to rebuild. But you bring up a very valid point of the Cap floor. This is why someone will have to stay. More than likely Jones stays and so does Strome. Strome will get a 3-4 year deal. Probably 4 million per. Kubalik will probably stay in the same range as Strome. So the Hawks would have 17-18 million in those 3 alone. Cap floor is roughly 63 million. So they’d have 46 million more to spend on 20 roster spots or 2.3 million per spot. So I think they’ll fill in the rest nicely. And have 19 million to spend ( if going to cap ceiling) on taking on less than desirable contracts. Now. Bob you’ve brought up a valid point quite a few times. Money and the “Family”. Are they willing to take on bad deals to make the future better? Are they willing to lose 19/88? If not. This isn’t a rebuild. This is merely just cheaping out and hoping to get lucky. Where I can see your version above happening. Then a rebuild won’t actually happen until 19/88 are done. And all this could take 15 years till playoff hockey is back. I feel most fans will move on by then. And it’ll be a hard sell once again!!! |
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Post by mvr on May 16, 2022 4:01:48 GMT -6
Let's say Jones,Kane,Toews and DeBrincat are all moved and as long as we're doin' that,we lose Strome too........how does this team even approach the cap floor........for years. Make 'The Family' happy though....wouldn't it It looks like there's quite possibly NO young players the team will have to give big $$$ to for a LONG time(Wolves bent em over!) and the odds say that half of these fantasied about future picks and prospects fail........even the good ones,not me......the odds say that. Just bring in bums on bad deals to get picks I guess,sounds like what the Yotes been doin' for 25 years. How many #1's have they had? The difference here is that the situation if planned effectively is temporary. When the Hawks have a sufficient talent base (three quality young defencemen, two centres, a power winger, and a goalie), management has the resources (including secure ownership and a large base) to justify spending to the cap to build around it. The Coyotes roster is a revolving door. They don't have the money to retain players, hire scouts, coaches, etc. They can't scour the UFA market in Europe, the major juniors or US college to find overlooked gems like Brandon Hagel, Antti Niemi or Ed Belfour. They can't assume bad contracts to add draft picks and prospects. Teams with the money to spend maintain a huge advantage through a rebuild. Five years should be plenty of time for Davidson. |
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Post by hsbob on May 16, 2022 5:59:23 GMT -6
I understand cap space is a big positive.....the bad teams usually have a bunch of it though.
The need to pay these future superstars that remain nameless big $$$ is years and years away......if then. Maybe starting Reichel's ELC didn't matter because the team will have to pay somebody at some point if the good players go.
If D-Cat and Strome go,there's NO young players due a big RFA or bridge for some time unless we see a big breakthrough and if Strome is kept w/o Kane and D-Cat,you're wasting $$$........he'll be miserable and so will his #'s.
The team will obviously be able to bring in a few short term deals with hopefully some good picks attached but that'll be ugly for me and a lotta others to watch.
Ugly like Brent 'buyout' Connolly on the big club! They might need the hit........Seabs' deal might have come in handy after all too......as will Johnson's. I knew he'd be good for something.
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Post by BigT on May 16, 2022 10:11:14 GMT -6
Let's say Jones,Kane,Toews and DeBrincat are all moved and as long as we're doin' that,we lose Strome too........how does this team even approach the cap floor........for years. Make 'The Family' happy though....wouldn't it It looks like there's quite possibly NO young players the team will have to give big $$$ to for a LONG time(Wolves bent em over!) and the odds say that half of these fantasied about future picks and prospects fail........even the good ones,not me......the odds say that. Just bring in bums on bad deals to get picks I guess,sounds like what the Yotes been doin' for 25 years. How many #1's have they had? The difference here is that the situation if planned effectively is temporary. When the Hawks have a sufficient talent base (three quality young defencemen, two centres, a power winger, and a goalie), management has the resources (including secure ownership and a large base) to justify spending to the cap to build around it. The Coyotes roster is a revolving door. They don't have the money to retain players, hire scouts, coaches, etc. They can't scour the UFA market in Europe, the major juniors or US college to find overlooked gems like Brandon Hagel, Antti Niemi or Ed Belfour. They can't assume bad contracts to add draft picks and prospects. Teams with the money to spend maintain a huge advantage through a rebuild. Five years should be plenty of time for Davidson. Many players have said that Arizona is a career graveyard. Many young kids have said that. Duclair, Strome, Perlini, Merkley, Pierre Olivier Joseph, Kevin Bahl, Dvorak, Domi. That list goes on and on. I think they’re in a league of their own. Can’t compare anyone to them, that’s for sure!!! |
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Post by steamer on May 16, 2022 11:20:57 GMT -6
I wonder if at the end of the SCF this year if 30 other teams fans are having the same debate? I’d say 15 of them will and the other 15 want their team to go for it. We want the higher draft picks as they’re needed terribly here. On a side note. Anyone know how an expanded playoff would work? I’ve never looked into that!!! Please - no expanded playoff! Now maybe tinker with the divisions and East and West but half the league in post-season is plenty IMHO. |
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Post by BigT on May 16, 2022 14:06:01 GMT -6
I’d say 15 of them will and the other 15 want their team to go for it. We want the higher draft picks as they’re needed terribly here. On a side note. Anyone know how an expanded playoff would work? I’ve never looked into that!!! Please - no expanded playoff! Now maybe tinker with the divisions and East and West but half the league in post-season is plenty IMHO. I don’t think I’m for it. But the pros would be expanded income too. Adding another 4 teams or whatever they can do would add much more revenue to the coffers and raise the cap. I believe at some point they’ll have to do it. Too many teams now and not enough of them make it. It’s just simple math!!! |
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Post by vadarx on May 16, 2022 17:44:52 GMT -6
The difference here is that the situation if planned effectively is temporary. When the Hawks have a sufficient talent base (three quality young defencemen, two centres, a power winger, and a goalie), management has the resources (including secure ownership and a large base) to justify spending to the cap to build around it. The Coyotes roster is a revolving door. They don't have the money to retain players, hire scouts, coaches, etc. They can't scour the UFA market in Europe, the major juniors or US college to find overlooked gems like Brandon Hagel, Antti Niemi or Ed Belfour. They can't assume bad contracts to add draft picks and prospects. Teams with the money to spend maintain a huge advantage through a rebuild. Five years should be plenty of time for Davidson. Many players have said that Arizona is a career graveyard. Many young kids have said that. Duclair, Strome, Perlini, Merkley, Pierre Olivier Joseph, Kevin Bahl, Dvorak, Domi. That list goes on and on. I think they’re in a league of their own. Can’t compare anyone to them, that’s for sure!!! az strikes me as the leagues dumping ground. I doubt they'll be more than a team that has a 2-3 year playoff run every 10-15 years to fill the coffers a little and then return to being a place teams can dump players off at when they are tired of dealing with LTIR, ie Hossa and Datsyuk... |
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Post by jaty84 on May 17, 2022 0:38:41 GMT -6
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Post by mvr on May 17, 2022 4:40:46 GMT -6
The Blackhawks still want a first round pick, though they have five picks in the second and third.
The Maple Leafs have their first round pick but only two other late picks in the entire draft. They also really need to find a home for Petr Mrazek, their backup goalie, who carries a $3.4 M contract for two more years.
I see real potential for a trade here. The Hawks take on Mrazek's contract in return for the Leaf's 1st round pick. In return, the Leafs get a late second and a third.
Mrazek, when healthy, is a perfect short-term fit for a rebuilding team. He has dealt with groin issues for most of last year which explains his scary numbers.
Typically, I prefer having more picks as opposed to trading up. But this is going to be a weird draft. Many of the players have not played much the past couple of years because of COVID. If the Hawks see a guy they really like late in the first, it might be worth making a move.
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Post by vadarx on May 17, 2022 5:34:34 GMT -6
The Blackhawks still want a first round pick, though they have five picks in the second and third. The Maple Leafs have their first round pick but only two other late picks in the entire draft. They also really need to find a home for Petr Mrazek, their backup goalie, who carries a $3.4 M contract for two more years. I see real potential for a trade here. The Hawks take on Mrazek's contract in return for the Leaf's 1st round pick. In return, the Leafs get a late second and a third. Mrazek, when healthy, is a perfect short-term fit for a rebuilding team. He has dealt with groin issues for most of last year which explains his scary numbers. Typically, I prefer having more picks as opposed to trading up. But this is going to be a weird draft. Many of the players have not played much the past couple of years because of COVID. If the Hawks see a guy they really like late in the first, it might be worth making a move. yeah, the loafs need help and they need to get rid of Mrazek badly. that might be a trade they make, imo. |
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Post by mvr on May 17, 2022 5:43:56 GMT -6
I also believe the Leafs must be anxious to get out of one of their bloated forward contracts.
John Tavares has three more years at $11M/year (with a NMC). He is still a point a game guy, but likely because of the contract is a negative value asset at this point. It will cost the Leafs to unload him.
Should the Hawks move out some combination of Kane, Debrincat or Toews this summer, perhaps management might be willing to take on Tavares for a sweetener. Send them Murphy in exchange.
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Post by Nikos on May 17, 2022 5:59:45 GMT -6
I know the Leafs GM was not happy with KD with the MAF trade discussions so hopefully that has been repaired, then again the Toronto GM might be gone along with coach.
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Post by vadarx on May 17, 2022 6:32:09 GMT -6
I also believe the Leafs must be anxious to get out of one of their bloated forward contracts. John Tavares has three more years at $11M/year (with a NMC). He is still a point a game guy, but likely because of the contract is a negative value asset at this point. It will cost the Leafs to unload him. Should the Hawks move out some combination of Kane, Debrincat or Toews this summer, perhaps management might be willing to take on Tavares for a sweetener. Send them Murphy in exchange. somehow I doubt Tavares agrees to go from a Toronto team that is close to challenging for a Cup to a Chicago team striving for a draft lotto win... |
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Post by acesandeights on May 17, 2022 7:12:47 GMT -6
No, I would not do it. But of course I wouldn't sign any winger approaching UFA to a big long term (NMC) deal either (and especially a small scorer with no playoff history). As you know, my belief is that the minute Debrincat inks that next contract, his asset value collapses (and the player becomes virtually impossible to trade). I value Seth Jones as a player tremendously. But given the cap hit and the term, is he now worth anything in a trade? My guess is the Hawks would have to eat salary and add a trade chip to move the contract. This is the whole reason for moving Debrincat this summer (or at the latest next trade deadline). I hope a contender sees the player as that final piece and is willing to overpay for the short term. Stan Bowman was a dreadful General Manager. But there are many others out there hanging on by a thread. Drysdale and McTavish are nice pieces. L.A. has some very interesting prospects as well. So does Montreal, the Rangers, Islanders and others. Play them all against each other and take the best offer. But do it now, before it is too late. Considering Jones just had a career year on a bad team and he would've got a similar contract as a UFA this offseason the Hawks shouldn't need to retain salary or add a trade chip, just take back another high contract or two. Dallas tried to get him last year and he's a local boy, take back Bishop plus add in Calebs rights plus some other pieces and he could be moved. Retaining salary will go against the cap for 8yrs, not a smart move. The Hawks have 5 picks in rounds 2 and 3, trading Debrincat and Kane will definitely get them more picks in that range plus some young players, it should be done this summer now that we know the BJs have the Hawks first this year. But like the Hagel trade, I'd try and get some picks for next years draft as well.
I agree with that; in a rebuild, you've got to have multiple picks in more than one draft to restock. And hopefully with a few that have good potential, and not simply more of what we mostly have. I also agree with getting young player(s) in any trade of the Kane et al; it's another way to get higher level prospects, that are badly needed in the system. At least with young prospects, the Hawks will know, to some extent, what they're getting. I came across the chart below, done in May-2020, showing the % probability of making it to the NHL by round. It was in dobber prospects under NHL certainty. It did state it is only showing the odds of becoming an NHL player, and not necessarily how good they can become. Notice the biggest drop was from the last half of Rd. 1 to even just the 2nd. rd., 65% to 35%. edit: It should be noted there was a bit bigger drop from the top 5 to just the last half of the 1st rd.  ![]() |
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Post by Nikos on May 17, 2022 13:47:30 GMT -6
I also believe the Leafs must be anxious to get out of one of their bloated forward contracts. John Tavares has three more years at $11M/year (with a NMC). He is still a point a game guy, but likely because of the contract is a negative value asset at this point. It will cost the Leafs to unload him. Should the Hawks move out some combination of Kane, Debrincat or Toews this summer, perhaps management might be willing to take on Tavares for a sweetener. Send them Murphy in exchange. somehow I doubt Tavares agrees to go from a Toronto team that is close to challenging for a Cup to a Chicago team striving for a draft lotto win... Hard to see Taveras agreeing a trade to Chicago. I think Toronto is going to have to shake the roster, to what degree we will see. I got believe Matthews, Marner and even Taveras are not going anywhere. Nylander probably the likeliest. Is Campbell the answer in goal, not sure. |
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