debrincat

[OldTimeHawky]

Jul 24, 2022 6:33:29 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

do i need to open an "average north american nhl cities winter and summer temperatures/wind chill/humidity thread" ?

: D

just kidding...carry on.

we need posts here no matter what topic. : )

😆 yeah none of that matters, Debrincat grew up in Michigan and played in the OHL, he knows the area.

What I was pointing out to MVR is the return for Debrincat is better in the long run than getting a couple guys who are almost 30 and a late 1st.

Plus he thought they traded that 2nd round pick from the Debrincat trade to get Rinzel, but that was the 38th, they got the 39th in that trade.

[mvr]

You are correct, Hawky, about the pick.

My assumption here is that the 38th and 39th pick are about value equivalent (and virtually interchangeable). Davidson got the player he targeted with the extra pick. The other was added to the Leafs trade. Does the general manager make the trade with Toronto without making the trade with Ottawa first? I don't know. But I do think the two trades should be looked at in combination for this reason.

Regarding the geography issue: Ontario is a massive province. It takes roughly two full days driving to get from one side to the other. Debrincat grew up in Detroit, Michigan and played in Erie, Pennsylvania which is nowhere near Ottawa. Suggesting otherwise is like saying Edmonton is near Kamloops or Chicago near Nashville.

[OldTimeHawky]

Jul 24, 2022 7:18:59 GMT -6 mvr said:

You are correct, Hawky, about the pick.

My assumption here is that the 38th and 39th pick are about value equivalent (and virtually interchangeable). Davidson got the player he targeted with the extra pick. The other was added to the Leafs trade. Does the general manager make the trade with Toronto without making the trade with Ottawa first? I don't know. But I do think the two trades should be looked at in combination for this reason.

Regarding the geography issue: Ontario is a massive province. It takes roughly two full days driving to get from one side to the other. Debrincat grew up in Detroit, Michigan and played in Erie, Pennsylvania which is nowhere near Ottawa. Suggesting otherwise is like saying Edmonton is near Kamloops or Chicago near Nashville.

Look at it however you want, they were completley separate trades. When KD realized Rinzel might been going to his hometown St Louis that's when they decided to trade up to draft ahead of the Blues.

And I said he grew up in Michigan and played in the OHL so he knows the area, didn't say they were close. Yes Erie isn't in Ontario but it's in the Ontario Hockey League and he's played against the 67s, plus growing up in Michigan he probably played tournament's in Ontario. But it doesn't matter.

[mvr]

My point was that Debrincat and his wife are not likely thrilled about coming to Ottawa - because of the weather, high taxes and the distance from home (including the border crossing).

Ottawa is not a contender in the short term.  This was likely among the last places he would want to play.

If I was Debrincat, I would be bitter.   I would feel I was being punished for not cooperating.   This is just my opinion as an outsider.

You are entitled, of course, to believe otherwise.

[mvr]

If Davidson did not engage with Debrincat's agent before the trade in an attempt to get the player involved, we have a problem.

I certainly hope this is not what happened. The role of the general manager is to maximize asset return in any trade. Clearly, Debrincat signed to a long term deal adds to his trade value.

[steamer]

I am sure he feels bitter about having to move to another team when he’s given his all - successfully - to the Hawks. But I don’t feel the same way about Ottawa being the last choice of places to play hockey. They will likely contend for a playoff spot this season and he may like the vibe. Can’t speak for his wife but she married a hockey player knowing that mo Inc around Canada and the US is part of the gig. Hawks tried to get the highest first rounder they could and maybe KD could have done a better job in negotiating.

[vadarx]

Jul 24, 2022 10:08:09 GMT -6 steamer said:

I am sure he feels bitter about having to move to another team when he’s given his all - successfully - to the Hawks. But I don’t feel the same way about Ottawa being the last choice of places to play hockey. They will likely contend for a playoff spot this season and he may like the vibe. Can’t speak for his wife but she married a hockey player knowing that mo Inc around Canada and the US is part of the gig. Hawks tried to get the highest first rounder they could and maybe KD could have done a better job in negotiating.

yeah, I am not seeing this "Ottawa isn't a good team" thing. they already had an up and coming team and then added Giroux and the Cat. they could very well make some waves and see the postseason this coming season and then there are more prospects on the way. they could have a really good team there in a year or two. it will be interesting to see if he wants to stick around or if he bolts in two summers...

[mvr]

Here is another way of looking at it....

Players through their agents negotiate hard for NTC (or partial NTC) largely because they want some control over where they play. How many who have them would restrict Ottawa as a place to avoid? Fifty percent? Seventy-five? Higher?

Of course we do not know for certain. My guess is that it is close to 90 percent plus (and likely higher for American players). Giroux is from Ottawa and is returning home for his final lap. Other than him, Ottawa has not attracted a big name UFA for many years, and it is not from lack of trying. It is hard to think of many Senators other than Alfredsson, Phillips and one or two others who did not leave the first chance they could.

Wanting to play on a winner is one criteria players look for, but it is not the only. There are many contenders, and Ottawa would not be among my top ten next year even with the additions.

[mvr]

In the entire history of the Senators' franchise, only four players have lasted 700 games with the organization.   Five more have reached 600.   An additional two reached 500.

That's it.

[OldTimeHawky]

Jul 24, 2022 11:48:24 GMT -6 mvr said:

Here is another way of looking at it....

Players through their agents negotiate hard for NTC (or partial NTC) largely because they want some control over where they play. How many who have them would restrict Ottawa as a place to avoid? Fifty percent? Seventy-five? Higher?

Of course we do not know for certain. My guess is that it is close to 90 percent plus (and likely higher for American players). Giroux is from Ottawa and is returning home for his final lap. Other than him, Ottawa has not attracted a big name UFA for many years, and it is not from lack of trying. It is hard to think of many Senators other than Alfredsson, Phillips and one or two others who did not leave the first chance they could.

Wanting to play on a winner is one criteria players look for, but it is not the only. There are many contenders, and Ottawa would not be among my top ten next year even with the additions.

It's doesn't matter, Debrincat didn't have a NMC. You can make all the speculations you want but for all we know he was ok going there,

I'm sure it wasn't his first choice but he's gone and the Hawks have two really good young players and a 3rd in 2024.

[steamer]

Maybe Ottawa is the Siberia of the NHL but D-cat can make the best of this next season and either stay if he and his family likes it or test free agency. If he maintains his great attitude I think he will be fine. I do not believe KD tried to punish him but Ottawa offered the highest first round pick opportunity out there. Habs wanted the #1; Devils apparently preferred a top potential d-man; AZ wanted a playmaking center (you have stated that d-men and centers are more important than high scoring wingers for rebuilding teams); Seattle same as AZ; leaving Philly. They drafted a LW and could have had a proven one so not sure if a deal could have been made with them but Hawks probably would have gone for Korchinski even if they picked a spot higher.

[mvr]

We'll see.

For the most part, Ottawa has survived largely by drafting and developing Canadians and Northern Europeans used to cold climates who don't care so much where they play.

There have been a couple of American players who stayed in Ottawa for more than a few years. Craig Anderson is one. Bobby Ryan is a second, although clearly he was motivated by a well-above market contract ($7.5 M). If Ottawa offers Debrincat $9-10 M on a long term deal, it is possible he might think about it.

Of course it also possible (perhaps even likely) that Davidson uses the threat of trading a player to Ottawa as part of his ongoing negotiating strategy. Moving forward, all the players now know to take him seriously.

[mvr]

Five years from now....

"Frank, you know that bridge contract offer we sent your agent last week. We need you to make your decision. Ottawa wants you. They have put together a good offer. We'll give you until Thursday."

It is perfect.

Planned in advance or not, I believe most of us recognize the potential long-term benefit of using leverage in this way.   It might turn out to be as valuable as any pick or prospect.   Davidson would be a weak fool not to use it.   Right now, he is building his reputation.

[bigbarn27]

Last guy did the same thing so does that mean Cat will be coming back just like Saad. You are correct he is building a rep and it’s not a good one. I’m sure the young wife might not like it much and I’m sure Alex will just tell her next year we start at 9 mil to stay here or we can leave and she will be fine, Also possible Frank goes Sens
Jackets, Arizona anywhere but here for his bridge deal

[hsbob]

Jul 24, 2022 15:21:29 GMT -6 mvr said:

Five years from now....

"Frank, you know that bridge contract offer we sent your agent last week. We need you to make your decision. Ottawa wants you. They have put together a good offer. We'll give you until Thursday."

It is perfect.

Planned in advance or not, I believe most of us recognize the potential long-term benefit of using leverage in this way.   It might turn out to be as valuable as any pick or prospect.   Davidson would be a weak fool not to use it.   Right now, he is building his reputation.

I'm tyrin' to wrap my head around this KD punished D-Cat to show the league what a hardass he is but it's just too 'cloak and dagger' to go along with,KD wanted a high pick.............good teams don't possess high picks........do they?  If you believe KD expected D-Cat's camp to agree to a long term deal with any team just to up his return value,I'll remind you the Tkachuk trade was the first and only sign and trade ever done in the NHL. 

Max contract negotiations can drag on for weeks if not more,BUT..........hurry up and sign a new deal so we can get more for your guy? Why would an agent do that if he knows his player is going to a bad team with a high pick regardless? 

You've made a point of how awful Ottawa is and how he'll never win a cup there.....right? Why would you expect the player to sign an 8 year deal to play there if that's the case?    
 
"That bridge contract offer we sent your agent"? How much was it for and why should he sign ANOTHER bridge contract just to up his trade value? It's not like he'd have his pick of teams if he accepts this idea and his and his agent wouldn't stand for it anyway with a max deal just a year away. 

You had to get creative to criticize his play when he was here but this is more creative than ever.  

[mvr]

Jul 25, 2022 7:59:20 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Jul 24, 2022 15:21:29 GMT -6 mvr said:

Five years from now....

"Frank, you know that bridge contract offer we sent your agent last week. We need you to make your decision. Ottawa wants you. They have put together a good offer. We'll give you until Thursday."

It is perfect.

Planned in advance or not, I believe most of us recognize the potential long-term benefit of using leverage in this way.   It might turn out to be as valuable as any pick or prospect.   Davidson would be a weak fool not to use it.   Right now, he is building his reputation.

I'm tyrin' to wrap my head around this KD punished D-Cat to show the league what a hardass he is but it's just too 'cloak and dagger' to go along with,KD wanted a high pick.............good teams don't possess high picks........do they?  If you believe KD expected D-Cat's camp to agree to a long term deal with any team just to up his return value,I'll remind you the Tkachuk trade was the first and only sign and trade ever done in the NHL. 

Max contract negotiations can drag on for weeks if not more,BUT..........hurry up and sign a new deal so we can get more for your guy? Why would an agent do that if he knows his player is going to a bad team with a high pick regardless? 

You've made a point of how awful Ottawa is and how he'll never win a cup there.....right? Why would you expect the player to sign an 8 year deal to play there if that's the case?    
 
"That bridge contract offer we sent your agent"? How much was it for and why should he sign ANOTHER bridge contract just to up his trade value? It's not like he'd have his pick of teams if he accepts this idea and his and his agent wouldn't stand for it anyway with a max deal just a year away. 

You had to get creative to criticize his play when he was here but this is more creative than ever.  

A couple of points to clarify here.

1) You are correct - sign and trades are rare in the NHL. Instead, what happens is that agents negotiate with potential trade partners before deals have been completed. Seth Jones is one example. Chelios is another. The practice is commonplace when high end players are involved. Obviously, in this situation, Debrincat and his agent either were not invited or (more likely) chose not to participate. If Davidson did not actively encourage Debrincat's agent to get involved, we have a problem here. My assumption is that the general manager is competent and the player and agent chose not to --- preferring instead to target the UFA market in two years.

2) My guess is that Davidson hoped to get Debrincat's agent involved in earlier trade negotiations (with LA and NJ for certain but likely others as well). He hoped to make a trade similar to the Seth Jones deal (with the player agreeing to sign long term with a new team of his choosing). Debrincat's agent refused to get involved (or could not reach a satisfactory agreement). My guess is that Ottawa's offer was comparable to other bids but not necessarily the best by any stretch. What tipped the scales here was a strong motivation to send a message.

3) I do not expect Debrincat to sign in Ottawa. The only reason he would do so is if the Senators far outbid everyone else (and if Debrincat is motivated exclusively by money). As I wrote above, my guess is that Debrincat feels (rightly) that he was screwed over and made an example of. He does not want to play in Ottawa - the NHL's version of Siberia. Debrincat will tough it out this year and be traded again likely next summer before he reaches UFA in two years.


4) The bridge deal scenario I wrote above has nothing to do with Debrincat. It is for younger players now in the system (ie Frank Nazar) who look up to Debrincat. Davidson is telling them - this is what happens when you don't play ball. Davidson is building his reputation. Now everyone knows he is serious.

Davidson himself told the press at trade deadline that he turned down late offers for his available players because they did not meet his minimum "line in the sand." He felt it more important at this stage to lose out on picks and prospects if it ensured other teams realized he would not be pushed around. I disagreed with this strategy, but I certainly understood it. Now agents and players have received the same message.

[mvr]

If I am right, Davidson offered Debrincat some control over where he would play. The issue is that he would have to sign a long term deal with the new team this summer.

Perhaps the agent did participate, and Debrincat did not like the options presented. Perhaps he did not want to play for any of the teams bidding for his services. Perhaps the contract offers did not excite him.

It is certainly within the player's right to refuse to participate or turn down offers presented to him.

The consequence is the trade to Ottawa.

[hsbob]

Jul 25, 2022 9:39:13 GMT -6 mvr said:

Jul 25, 2022 7:59:20 GMT -6 hsbob said:

I'm tyrin' to wrap my head around this KD punished D-Cat to show the league what a hardass he is but it's just too 'cloak and dagger' to go along with,KD wanted a high pick.............good teams don't possess high picks........do they?  If you believe KD expected D-Cat's camp to agree to a long term deal with any team just to up his return value,I'll remind you the Tkachuk trade was the first and only sign and trade ever done in the NHL. 

Max contract negotiations can drag on for weeks if not more,BUT..........hurry up and sign a new deal so we can get more for your guy? Why would an agent do that if he knows his player is going to a bad team with a high pick regardless? 

You've made a point of how awful Ottawa is and how he'll never win a cup there.....right? Why would you expect the player to sign an 8 year deal to play there if that's the case?    
 
"That bridge contract offer we sent your agent"? How much was it for and why should he sign ANOTHER bridge contract just to up his trade value? It's not like he'd have his pick of teams if he accepts this idea and his and his agent wouldn't stand for it anyway with a max deal just a year away. 

You had to get creative to criticize his play when he was here but this is more creative than ever.  

A couple of points to clarify here.

1) You are correct - sign and trades are rare in the NHL. Instead, what happens is that agents negotiate with potential trade partners before deals have been completed. Seth Jones is one example. Chelios is another. The practice is commonplace when high end players are involved. Obviously, in this situation, Debrincat and his agent either were not invited or (more likely) chose not to participate. If Davidson did not actively encourage Debrincat's agent to get involved, we have a problem here. My assumption is that the general manager is competent and the player and agent chose not to --- preferring instead to target the UFA market in two years.

2) My guess is that Davidson hoped to get Debrincat's agent involved in earlier trade negotiations (with LA and NJ for certain but likely others as well). He hoped to make a trade similar to the Seth Jones deal (with the player agreeing to sign long term with a new team of his choosing). Debrincat's agent refused to get involved. My guess is that Ottawa's offer was comparable to other bids but not necessarily the best by any stretch. What tipped the scales here was a strong motivation to send a message.

3) I do not expect Debrincat to sign in Ottawa. The only reason he would do so is if the Senators far outbid everyone else (and if Debrincat is motivated exclusively by money). As I wrote above, my guess is that Debrincat feels (rightly) that he was screwed over and made an example of. He does not want to play in Ottawa - the NHL's version of Siberia. Debrincat will tough it out this year and be traded again likely next summer before he reaches UFA in two years.


4) The bridge deal scenario I wrote above has nothing to do with Debrincat. It is for younger players now in the system (ie Frank Nazar) who look up to Debrincat. Davidson is telling them - this is what happens when you don't play ball. Davidson is building his reputation. Now everyone knows he is serious.

Davidson himself told the press at trade deadline that he turned down late offers for his available players because they did not meet his minimum "line in the sand." He felt it more important at this stage to lose out on picks and prospects if it ensured other teams realized he would not be pushed around. I disagreed with this strategy, but I certainly understood it. Now agents and players have received the same message.

1) We don't even know if KD attempted to do this as you said and you're making assumptions and guesses,as you also said.

2) Signing a new deal before the trade does bring more value in return but offers little to the player,how much choice could he have if KD wanted a high pick? LA had the 19th pick,KD wanted a much higher pick and told everybody. NJ said they were hanging onto the 2nd overall and NJ is no better than Ottawa anyway.......the Sens had 10 more points last year. The Seth Jonea deal? Only a DUMBASS would do something like that! More on that 'message sending' later.

3) We don't know where he'll end up signing but the Sens have quite the combo of good,young players,prospects,all their picks and more,a shit ton of cap space and a desire to improve........hardly "Siberia".  "Made an example of"?

4) Let's address all this strategy of not getting pushed around,making examples and sending messages. What for?......

Retribution against a young all-star player who didn't ask to be traded,wasn't holding out,wasn't going to arbitration and never did anything but express his desire to stay?
The next young player due a RFA bridge deal and his agent will be so intimidated by D-Cat being traded to the team that offered the highest pick that they wilt in KD's presence? You gotta be kidding.

If an inexperienced GM with no Pres of hockey opps to guide him is indeed making trades out of spite instead of the quality of the return,God help him! 

Alex DeBrincat and the Ottawa Senators organization will both have the luxury of a full season or at least until the TDL to see how they fit one another and if they can agree on a long term deal. THAT and the player already has 9M coming his way next year.......he and his agent had no reason to rush a re-do and I doubt they were even asked but that's me assuming and guessing this time.  

[vadarx]

Jul 25, 2022 9:59:07 GMT -6 mvr said:

If I am right, Davidson offered Debrincat some control over where he would play. The issue is that he would have to sign a long term deal with the new team this summer.

Perhaps the agent did participate, and Debrincat did not like the options presented. Perhaps he did not want to play for any of the teams bidding for his services. Perhaps the contract offers did not excite him.

It is certainly within the player's right to refuse to participate or turn down offers presented to him.

The consequence is the trade to Ottawa.

perhaps he just wants to be an UFA in two years and decide then where it would be best to sign for 7 years...

[mvr]

Jul 25, 2022 12:03:31 GMT -6 vadarx said:

Jul 25, 2022 9:59:07 GMT -6 mvr said:

If I am right, Davidson offered Debrincat some control over where he would play. The issue is that he would have to sign a long term deal with the new team this summer.

Perhaps the agent did participate, and Debrincat did not like the options presented. Perhaps he did not want to play for any of the teams bidding for his services. Perhaps the contract offers did not excite him.

It is certainly within the player's right to refuse to participate or turn down offers presented to him.

The consequence is the trade to Ottawa.

perhaps he just wants to be an UFA in two years and decide then where it would be best to sign for 7 years...

vadarx:  I believe this is the absolute truth.  Obviously, it is his right to do so.   Taking this stand, unfortunately, clearly lowered his trade value.  It also means he is now in Ottawa at least for a year.



hsbob:   You and I have maintained very different views about Debrincat's value.   But even I was more than a little shocked and disappointed with the return - a first round pick in what many perceive to be a historically weak draft along with a couple of lottery tickets.   The defenceman chosen with the pick ranked well outside the top ten on more than a few draft boards.   He is no sure thing pick.

What then was Davidson's silver lining here for making this move?  Surely you don't think this was the best deal out there given how you feel about this player's talent?  Are Davidson and his staff simply incompetent in your view?   Are all the other general managers ignorant because they did not make a better offer for this young "superstar"?



One other point here - I have never pretended to be an insider or have information from anonymous sources.   Every word I present here is an opinion, a speculation based on what I read and observe from the living room couch.   

But this is true of most of us.   Let's not pretend otherwise.  Nobody has the "facts" other than those within the room.   Even then, interpretations of reality differ with each participant.

I admit to my fair share of bad predictions.   Nevertheless, I did call the Strome and Kubalik contract releases when many here thought they would be re-signed.  I did call the Debrincat and Hagel trades well before they happened.  I think I have been more right than wrong lately.

[mvr]

My "guess" is that Davidson is now waiting on Patrick Kane.

If Kane decides he wants to stay until the deadline, Connor Murphy will be shopped around once he shows up healthy at training camp. Davidson still needs to make a couple of moves to secure that high pick.

[bigbarn27]

Jul 25, 2022 14:30:35 GMT -6 mvr said:

My "guess" is that Davidson is now waiting on Patrick Kane.

If Kane decides he wants to stay until the deadline, Connor Murphy will be shopped around once he shows up healthy at training camp. Davidson still needs to make a couple of moves to secure that high pick.

Gonna be a long wait don’t think 88 will have anything to say to KD. First time in a while I don’t think 88 is even in town

[hsbob]

Jul 25, 2022 14:05:37 GMT -6 mvr said:

Jul 25, 2022 12:03:31 GMT -6 vadarx said:

perhaps he just wants to be an UFA in two years and decide then where it would be best to sign for 7 years...

vadarx:  I believe this is the absolute truth.  Obviously, it is his right to do so.   Taking this stand, unfortunately, clearly lowered his trade value.  It also means he is now in Ottawa at least for a year.



hsbob:   You and I have maintained very different views about Debrincat's value.   But even I was more than a little shocked and disappointed with the return - a first round pick in what many perceive to be a historically weak draft along with a couple of lottery tickets.   The defenceman chosen with the pick ranked well outside the top ten on more than a few draft boards.   He is no sure thing pick.

What then was Davidson's silver lining here for making this move?  Surely you don't think this was the best deal out there given how you feel about this player's talent?  Are Davidson and his staff simply incompetent in your view?   Are all the other general managers ignorant because they did not make a better offer for this young "superstar"?



One other point here - I have never pretended to be an insider or have information from anonymous sources.   Every word I present here is an opinion, a speculation based on what I read and observe from the living room couch.   

But this is true of most of us.   Let's not pretend otherwise.  Nobody has the "facts" other than those within the room.   Even then, interpretations of reality differ with each participant.

I admit to my fair share of bad predictions.   Nevertheless, I did call the Strome and Kubalik contract releases when many here thought they would be re-signed.  I did call the Debrincat and Hagel trades well before they happened.  I think I have been more right than wrong lately.

Good debate mvr and thanks for it. I do agree that DeBrincat has more trade value if the receiving team(for lack of a better term) knows he's signed long term BUT doesn't it also depend on what the deal looks like? 

I see little advantage in the player's camp rushing the process and therefore possibly taking less than his market value for the sake of the return to the team dumping him........would he just have his choice of which bad team he's signed with until he retires? 

Seriously mvr.......where could D-Cat have gone if he would have played ball so to speak? KD wanted a high pick. How do we know this wasn't attempted and just didn't work out? GM's know they might have a chance to sign the player as an UFA next summer w/o giving up a single asset.....let alone two 1sts and a top prospect. That's what I believe has lowered his trade value,along with KD's public announcement of his desire for a high pick this year. I heard we got the next Makar but I don't know much about the kids any more till the make the league.
I think GM's noticed the parting gift DUMBASS left us and won't repeat the mistake,the combination of assets given up for a player who might not have even brought 9.5M this summer hurt this team but that contract will hurt worse. 

All any of us can do is make assumptions....I agree. "Interpretations" DO differ,even among those in the know,rarely do we see a hockey 'panel' in agreement on anything. I will say that the opinions express here(yours included) do come from a viewpoint that is more aware of the goings on around the game by folks that follow it.......not many casual hockey fans here. 
I think you're right as often as any of us as far as predictions,the Caps gave Strome 3.5M for one and negotiated back in another year of RFA rights and Det signed Kubalik for 2.5M for two years on opening day of free agency. You were right that the new FO saw no value in these two players but other teams did. 

I called a breakthrough for Strome last year considering what he's been through and I feel somewhat vindicated by that too (22/48 52%FO in 69gms) took some level of perseverance after finding himself in the press box to start a season once again after a good camp by most accounts. I believe the team's start last year was a direct result of seeing more of this foolish refusal to use one of the team's better players. We'll see what happens in Washington,Strome will have real good plyers to play with and his first real NHL HC but that's a double edged sword........Laviolette can also be demanding but I believe he'll use the player to his strengths.

You did predict the trades of the team's best two,young forwards and I predicted the trade with Fla would be a stinker the day after it happened. Brent 'buyout' Connolly as I called him from day one finally lived up to his name after his stint in Rockford and the phenom we got along with him was bought out along with him. I didn't think much of Borgstrom but I don't see wasting a buyout on a 24yro making 800K,we do see mid 20yro forwards figure things out sometimes and his entire contract coulda been buried at Rockford.....no?       
      
 


 

[mvr]

My guess is that during the job interview stage, Davidson outlined a plan to gut the roster and lower payroll. This was the mandate ownership expected and demanded he follow this summer.

Davidson had no choice really but to unload Debrincat and his $9 M salary and take what he could get before the draft. He counted on Debrincat and his agent to find a long term contract with one of his potential trade partners. When nothing materialized there, the noose tightened.

The Ottawa deal might not have been the best offer, but it was comparable to others. My feeling is that the New Jersey offer was the closest, and it included the second pick overall and Holtz. But in return, they wanted a signed and committed Debrincat and Kirby Dach in a package.

LA was also bidding for Debrincat, but they settled for the cheaper Minnesota player instead.

Of course, we will never know what happened.

[BigT]

Jul 26, 2022 10:00:11 GMT -6 mvr said:

My guess is that during the job interview stage, Davidson outlined a plan to gut the roster and lower payroll. This was the mandate ownership expected and demanded he follow this summer.

Davidson had no choice really but to unload Debrincat and his $9 M salary and take what he could get before the draft. He counted on Debrincat and his agent to find a long term contract with one of his potential trade partners. When nothing materialized there, the noose tightened.

The Ottawa deal might not have been the best offer, but it was comparable to others. My feeling is that the New Jersey offer was the closest, and it included the second pick overall and Holtz. But in return, they wanted a signed and committed Debrincat and Kirby Dach in a package.

LA was also bidding for Debrincat, but they settled for the cheaper Minnesota player instead.

Of course, we will never know what happened.

I can assure you there really wasn’t a NJ offer. That was all speculation on the medias behalf. I cannot tell you who told me. But I can tell you that Dcats contract was a non starter. It is what it is now. KD took the best offer.

NJ didn’t even offer Goudreau a contract. They are said to be hoarding their cap space to re-sign everyone and add to it later. They never ever ever wanted Dcat or his contract. We need to move on from the notion that there was a better deal and KD messed up!!!

[mvr]

We will never know for sure what happened.

But where there is smoke, most often there is fire.

Clearly, the media speculation about Debrincat and the 2nd pick overall existed. We also know that NJ General Manager Tom Fitzgerald, when asked about trading the pick, said he had been in conversations and that at one point a move was "close." The big names traded around that time were Debrincat, Dach and Romanov.

I'm not suggesting KD messed up. He had to take what he could, and he had a deadline. Debrincat did not sign an extension which is his right. The seventh overall, while a disappointing return, is better than nothing. My guess is that Ottawa presented a competitive offer that matched up with others but wasn't by any means the only one on the table. Debrincat is a good player with a bad contract.

[BigT]

Jul 27, 2022 6:50:27 GMT -6 mvr said:

We will never know for sure what happened.

But where there is smoke, most often there is fire.

Clearly, the media speculation about Debrincat and the 2nd pick overall existed. We also know that NJ General Manager Tom Fitzgerald, when asked about trading the pick, said he had been in conversations and that at one point a move was "close." The big names traded around that time were Debrincat, Dach and Romanov.

I'm not suggesting KD messed up. He had to take what he could, and he had a deadline. Debrincat did not sign an extension which is his right. The seventh overall, while a disappointing return, is better than nothing. My guess is that Ottawa presented a competitive offer that matched up with others but wasn't by any means the only one on the table. Debrincat is a good player with a bad contract.

There were also rumours of Philly giving up the 5th for Dcat. Fletcher clarified and said he was never trading the pick. I understand the old adage, where there’s smoke…….. but there could also be a weed smoker too. Just sayin. And it seems like the media wanted this massive trade to happen. When Dcat was traded. Even Friedman was dumbfounded. I think KD wanted to keep everything quiet after what happened with Toronta earlier in the year. So I think they let nothing leak it and this is why the media was so wrong on it.

If you know a few scouts. They’ll tell you that they’re asked about certain players. I knew Keith was going to Edmonton last year because the Edmonton scout had said something along the lines of “Keith is on the move soon”. So I put it together and realized that was probably the landing spot. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. But a lot of times it does!!!

[hsbob]

Jul 26, 2022 10:00:11 GMT -6 mvr said:

My guess is that during the job interview stage, Davidson outlined a plan to gut the roster and lower payroll. This was the mandate ownership expected and demanded he follow this summer.

Davidson had no choice really but to unload Debrincat and his $9 M salary and take what he could get before the draft. He counted on Debrincat and his agent to find a long term contract with one of his potential trade partners. When nothing materialized there, the noose tightened.

The Ottawa deal might not have been the best offer, but it was comparable to others. My feeling is that the New Jersey offer was the closest, and it included the second pick overall and Holtz. But in return, they wanted a signed and committed Debrincat and Kirby Dach in a package.

LA was also bidding for Debrincat, but they settled for the cheaper Minnesota player instead.

Of course, we will never know what happened.

If your saying 'The Family' just didn't want to pay their 24yro all-star,you might have a point and it also might be a decision the average STH remembers for a long time.

As far as a "noose tightening".....LOL......you are a BEAUT! If you equate being an UFA coming off what will most likely be his third outstanding season in a row with being hung,then I guess that makes sense. Or even if you're the young GM who got the pick you told everybody you had to have.........that beats hangin' too IMO.

Another 40+ goal season with some talented linemates will put Alex DeBrincat in rarified company and a rising cap will assure a BIG and well deserved offer. Is it in Ottawa?
He and the team both will have the luxury of a season(with a very reasonable cap hit of 6.5M) to see how they mesh before either has to make this big decision. 

The Wild settled for an older,lesser player also. 

I figured trading the 24yro all-star would placate his critics.......I was wrong. 

[mvr]

Clearly, most teams did not want to pay the 24-year old "all star" $9 M for one year (and perhaps a second at that cap hit).

This is why the Senators "won" with what I consider a very lowball bid. If this bid was not competitive with other offers, it would not have enticed the general manager to accept it.

The "noose" was tightening around Davidson's neck. He had a timeline to get out of that ugly contract.

[hsbob]

Jul 27, 2022 11:32:12 GMT -6 mvr said:

Clearly, most teams did not want to pay the 24-year old "all star" $9 M for one year (and perhaps a second at that cap hit).

This is why the Senators "won" with what I consider a very lowball bid. If this bid was not competitive with other offers, it would not have enticed the general manager to accept it.

The "noose" was tightening around Davidson's neck. He had a timeline to get out of that ugly contract.

That "ugly"(pre-edit) contract is nothing more than your opinion and nothing more than a continued slight at a player who's already traded for God's sake. 

DUMBASS did some stupid shit but he structured D-Cat's deal that way for a reason. The deal was signed in Oct of '19' and the 22yro was coming off a 41 goal sophomore campaign,giving him 69gls in his first two seasons,the 9M in the final year was the reward for signing a 6.4M value,bridge and even a DUMBASS knew the kid would be worth 9M on his next deal and he will.......he'll sign for at least that.